New JQ Contract
Join Date: Apr 2008
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why are people so naive???????...the email says it...how much more clear does it get...quote
[QUOTE]It’s also clear that some of you would strongly prefer for flexibility and mobility to be achieved within the context of an EBA.
Also, a number of you were surprised to learn that discussions have been going on for many years to resolve these issues within the EBA. This has been our desire for a long time and if it were not for AIPA’s actions, we believe we would be in a very different place today./QUOTE].....
there is no f**king issue with the EBA...its flexible enough....
[QUOTE]It’s also clear that some of you would strongly prefer for flexibility and mobility to be achieved within the context of an EBA.
Also, a number of you were surprised to learn that discussions have been going on for many years to resolve these issues within the EBA. This has been our desire for a long time and if it were not for AIPA’s actions, we believe we would be in a very different place today./QUOTE].....
there is no f**king issue with the EBA...its flexible enough....
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Just wait for it - they'll sell their next offering by saying "only so much money in the pool for pay & perks - now go sort out amongst yourselves what you LH blokes are willing to trade off for your JQ brethren..."
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Jetstar freezes contract hirings to buy peace
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer From: The Australian May 23, 2011 12:00AM
JETSTAR has moved to head off a stoush with its pilots by putting on hold plans to put new hires on permanent part-time contracts.
But it has warned that a decision to freeze new recruitment while it negotiates with pilots may mean growth at the low-cost carrier is deferred.
News of the contracts triggered widespread anger among the low-cost carrier's pilots, prompted legal action by the Australian Federation of Air Pilots and threatened to embroil the Qantas Group in another public battle over industrial relations.
Qantas is already facing industrial action from engineers and long-haul pilots, who are expected to apply to Fair Work Australia early this week for a ballot of members for approval to take industrial action.
Jetstar pilots were incensed by the moves to put new hires on a group contract outside the enterprise agreement that guaranteed employment for just 600 hours instead of the 800-plus Jetstar pilots generally work.
Jetstar management argues the flexibility is essential to continued growth and that it needs to match pilot workload to seasonal traffic and to move pilots around the multinational group. It says it has been trying to get an agreement on the issues for three years.
But pilots viewed the move as a betrayal of the agreement and more than 300 emailed management with their concerns.
In a memo obtained by The Australian, Jetstar Group chief executive Bruce Buchanan and Australia/New Zealand chief David Hall say the airline has decided to freeze Australian recruitment until September 1. It would also withdraw active offers of the new contract and move five first officers who had already accepted the enterprise agreement.
The memo says the company is holding talks with the AFAP and is hopeful it can quickly find a path that solves its business requirements and the desire of the pilot group to employ Australian pilots through a single enterprise agreement and it can lift the freeze earlier than September 1.
"The recruitment freeze may have (an) impact on capacity plans for this year, and there may be some deferral of growth while we work through this process," it says. "We believe our actions are a constructive step towards reaching agreement on flexibility . . .
"To continue to sustainably grow, we need to resolve these issues, otherwise we will be unable to continue the same level of growth."
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer From: The Australian May 23, 2011 12:00AM
JETSTAR has moved to head off a stoush with its pilots by putting on hold plans to put new hires on permanent part-time contracts.
But it has warned that a decision to freeze new recruitment while it negotiates with pilots may mean growth at the low-cost carrier is deferred.
News of the contracts triggered widespread anger among the low-cost carrier's pilots, prompted legal action by the Australian Federation of Air Pilots and threatened to embroil the Qantas Group in another public battle over industrial relations.
Qantas is already facing industrial action from engineers and long-haul pilots, who are expected to apply to Fair Work Australia early this week for a ballot of members for approval to take industrial action.
Jetstar pilots were incensed by the moves to put new hires on a group contract outside the enterprise agreement that guaranteed employment for just 600 hours instead of the 800-plus Jetstar pilots generally work.
Jetstar management argues the flexibility is essential to continued growth and that it needs to match pilot workload to seasonal traffic and to move pilots around the multinational group. It says it has been trying to get an agreement on the issues for three years.
But pilots viewed the move as a betrayal of the agreement and more than 300 emailed management with their concerns.
In a memo obtained by The Australian, Jetstar Group chief executive Bruce Buchanan and Australia/New Zealand chief David Hall say the airline has decided to freeze Australian recruitment until September 1. It would also withdraw active offers of the new contract and move five first officers who had already accepted the enterprise agreement.
The memo says the company is holding talks with the AFAP and is hopeful it can quickly find a path that solves its business requirements and the desire of the pilot group to employ Australian pilots through a single enterprise agreement and it can lift the freeze earlier than September 1.
"The recruitment freeze may have (an) impact on capacity plans for this year, and there may be some deferral of growth while we work through this process," it says. "We believe our actions are a constructive step towards reaching agreement on flexibility . . .
"To continue to sustainably grow, we need to resolve these issues, otherwise we will be unable to continue the same level of growth."
Pilots flying Australian aircraft in Australia require an Australian contract!
Also, putting the 5 guys on the EBA and withdrawing other offers technically means they have no case to answer in court since they are seen to have rectified the wrong - FOR NOW!!!
More to Follow
The Kelpie
I am assuming that any changes to the EBA will need to be voted on by the membership?
Last edited by The Kelpie; 22nd May 2011 at 21:34.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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move five first officers who had already accepted the enterprise agreement.
Kelpie,
Not sure this means put them on the EBA, but accede to your greater wisdom and wider knowledge.
They are probably setting up another base in Mumbai as we speak.
Cheers
Kelpie,
Not sure this means put them on the EBA, but accede to your greater wisdom and wider knowledge.
They are probably setting up another base in Mumbai as we speak.
Cheers
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Just says move them.
Sorry I read that as move them within Australia which would mean onto the EBA.
Having said that the cadets will prob have more than 500 hours by now and they may get moved back to NZ as they are currently on LWOP from JQ NZ. Although my understanding is that this would be contrary to OM1 which states that Cadets are restricted until 500 hours on type AND 12 months employment and cadets only to be based at the nominated Australian bases.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Sorry I read that as move them within Australia which would mean onto the EBA.
Having said that the cadets will prob have more than 500 hours by now and they may get moved back to NZ as they are currently on LWOP from JQ NZ. Although my understanding is that this would be contrary to OM1 which states that Cadets are restricted until 500 hours on type AND 12 months employment and cadets only to be based at the nominated Australian bases.
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The Kelpie
Join Date: Apr 2007
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The real question is would management have backed down if they'd gotten 17 signatures on the offered contracts? Or are they just changing tack now their first plan has failed?
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Kelpie
You are all over it and exactly right. Good man.
W9.
PS Horserun
Your youthful exuberance and optimistic enthusiasm has yet to be matched by a healthy, well developed scepticism towards your new employer. Give it time.
You are all over it and exactly right. Good man.
W9.
PS Horserun
Your youthful exuberance and optimistic enthusiasm has yet to be matched by a healthy, well developed scepticism towards your new employer. Give it time.
Last edited by waren9; 22nd May 2011 at 23:40.
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What about the 45 guys for were offered jobs but turned them down? If the five who signed the contract are rewarded with jobs on the EBA and those who stood fast are rewarded with nothing at all how is that a win?
Are some or all of those 45 union members? If so what can/will be done to support them?
Are some or all of those 45 union members? If so what can/will be done to support them?
The five guys who signed up should be cut loose and named and shamed on here.
I had a gut feeling some would put their ambition ahead of the greater good. It's time to hang them out to dry.
P.S - I hope that the court action will continue. There needs to be a decision made to prevent this strategy from continuing. I also hope the loop hole in the EBA is closed in the upcoming negotiations.
P.SS -The position of the union should be EBA or nothing for any Pilot flying VH registered aeroplanes in Australia.
I had a gut feeling some would put their ambition ahead of the greater good. It's time to hang them out to dry.
P.S - I hope that the court action will continue. There needs to be a decision made to prevent this strategy from continuing. I also hope the loop hole in the EBA is closed in the upcoming negotiations.
P.SS -The position of the union should be EBA or nothing for any Pilot flying VH registered aeroplanes in Australia.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Kelpie,
Should have known you were right, so just humour me.
Yet again these tossers change the rules when caught out. The Australian EBA should be renamed the dumping ground for fixing up their mistakes when they have to and/or when it suits them.
When are these deceptions ever going to end.
Should have known you were right, so just humour me.
Yet again these tossers change the rules when caught out. The Australian EBA should be renamed the dumping ground for fixing up their mistakes when they have to and/or when it suits them.
When are these deceptions ever going to end.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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These deceptions will continue for as long as the Qantas Group are allowed to get away with them.
QF have very experienced IR consultants (understand, the consultants job is purely IR not the overall well being of QF) and for the moment very deep pockets.
The only way to stop this is by getting this to the Federal Court, QF know that to.
This latest move by BB is just another smoke and mirrors tactic.
QF have very experienced IR consultants (understand, the consultants job is purely IR not the overall well being of QF) and for the moment very deep pockets.
The only way to stop this is by getting this to the Federal Court, QF know that to.
This latest move by BB is just another smoke and mirrors tactic.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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flex·i·ble adj
1. a. Capable of being bent or flexed; pliable.
b. Capable of being bent repeatedly without injury or damage.
2. Susceptible to influence or persuasion; tractable.
3. Responsive to change; adaptable: a flexible schedule.
Source: www.thefreedictionary.com
flex·i·ble adj
I can't get enough pilots for my bottom of the barrel off-shore bases because of the extraordinarily poor terms and conditions. I need my Australian pilots to be forced against their will to relocate to my offshore bases and accept the extraordinarily poor terms and conditions because I have imprisoned them by debt and contractural obligation so if they don't accept it I will sue them and bankrupt them. This is what I mean by a flexible workforce.
Source: The secret diary of BB
So, let's negotiate some flexibility into that EBA shall we?
1. a. Capable of being bent or flexed; pliable.
b. Capable of being bent repeatedly without injury or damage.
2. Susceptible to influence or persuasion; tractable.
3. Responsive to change; adaptable: a flexible schedule.
Source: www.thefreedictionary.com
flex·i·ble adj
I can't get enough pilots for my bottom of the barrel off-shore bases because of the extraordinarily poor terms and conditions. I need my Australian pilots to be forced against their will to relocate to my offshore bases and accept the extraordinarily poor terms and conditions because I have imprisoned them by debt and contractural obligation so if they don't accept it I will sue them and bankrupt them. This is what I mean by a flexible workforce.
Source: The secret diary of BB
So, let's negotiate some flexibility into that EBA shall we?
Join Date: May 2004
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Name and shame the 5..... as much as i don't want to say it.... it sure as hell is how i feel....
Name and shame? Does that apply to those that didn't email in support?
However, all those who did give their support, did so with their real names....
(Unity, was I thought the name of the game, not division)
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Name and Shame? You try to convince the public that you are a 'professional' group of individuals and then go on to talk about naming and shaming people who don't agree with you. Grow up and start behaving like adults!!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Indeed...any move towards naming and shaming and I will personally delete EVERY thread related to JQ...and any new thread that is started.
Am I being fairly clear?
Much Ado
Am I being fairly clear?
Much Ado