New JQ Contract
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
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Simply put, it's just too easy to become a pilot in this day and age. There is nothing to it. Line of credit and half a brain will get anyone into the right hand seat.
You know, it is just so so easy.
Now Mr Joyce, place the Goblin at one end of the bar, Burrito at the other.
Place a ruler in the middle.
Ready...set....go!!!
And then just sit back and watch them squabble.
Oh you forgot to post it again Burrito I'll save you the trouble.
Quick burrito look up!
Whoops, too late its gone
All the very best, good luck with your PIA
Now Mr Joyce, place the Goblin at one end of the bar, Burrito at the other.
Place a ruler in the middle.
Ready...set....go!!!
And then just sit back and watch them squabble.
Oh you forgot to post it again Burrito I'll save you the trouble.
Originally Posted by Compylot
4th Oct 2009, 12:21
Hi guys,
I am a recent professional commercial pilot (CPL, MEIFR Grade 3).
In regard to
as others could mistake you for someone of who is in a position of responsibility for the duty of care on the flight (in the event of an emergency where there's confusion etc).
As a recent addition to that of the league of professional aviator, I have from day one been taught that whenever I am around aircraft, airports or an aviation environment to act as one would expect from a commercial pilot!
Last week I paxed from Sydeny to Melbourne for my neices christening, and even though I was off duty I wore my full uniform consisting of standard white epaulette shirt, 2 bars, wings, blue pants and of course appropriately displayed ASIC.
The cabin crew on that flight were more than accomodating and thankful that they had an aviation porfessional in the emergency exit row, secure in the knowledge I had the capability and experience to direct pax in an emergency!
One of the passenegers next to me even asked me some questions on the briefing card and I helpfully pointed out some details!
So, I think that there is nothing wrong at all, in fact it is beneficial for professional aircrew to be appropriately identifiable when paxing on RPT services!
4th Oct 2009, 12:21
Hi guys,
I am a recent professional commercial pilot (CPL, MEIFR Grade 3).
In regard to
as others could mistake you for someone of who is in a position of responsibility for the duty of care on the flight (in the event of an emergency where there's confusion etc).
As a recent addition to that of the league of professional aviator, I have from day one been taught that whenever I am around aircraft, airports or an aviation environment to act as one would expect from a commercial pilot!
Last week I paxed from Sydeny to Melbourne for my neices christening, and even though I was off duty I wore my full uniform consisting of standard white epaulette shirt, 2 bars, wings, blue pants and of course appropriately displayed ASIC.
The cabin crew on that flight were more than accomodating and thankful that they had an aviation porfessional in the emergency exit row, secure in the knowledge I had the capability and experience to direct pax in an emergency!
One of the passenegers next to me even asked me some questions on the briefing card and I helpfully pointed out some details!
So, I think that there is nothing wrong at all, in fact it is beneficial for professional aircrew to be appropriately identifiable when paxing on RPT services!
Whoops, too late its gone
All the very best, good luck with your PIA
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You can't compare the pay of a 115-120 seat aircraft (717) to a 180 seat aircraft (A320). That's apples and oranges. If you want to compare wages between 2 180 seat aircraft compare Jetstar A320 pay with Virgin B737 pay, that's apples with apples.
Guess what company started the pay for your endorsement in Australia, it was Impluse on the 1900 and what happen to Impulse it became Jetstar!
Guess what company started the pay for your endorsement in Australia, it was Impluse on the 1900 and what happen to Impulse it became Jetstar!
You can't compare the pay of a 115-120 seat aircraft (717) to a 180 seat aircraft (A320).
Guess what company started the pay for your endorsement in Australia, it was Impluse on the 1900 and what happen to Impulse it became Jetstar!
Now that IS interesting
?????
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Australia
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Thats the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
Wearing your 2 bars while on a flight as a passenger.
I suppose you hang out at your local mall in Uniform to.
You sir..... Are a Loooooossseerrrrr.
Wearing your 2 bars while on a flight as a passenger.
I suppose you hang out at your local mall in Uniform to.
You sir..... Are a Loooooossseerrrrr.
Last week I paxed from Sydeny to Melbourne for my neices christening, and even though I was off duty I wore my full uniform consisting of standard white epaulette shirt, 2 bars, wings, blue pants and of course appropriately displayed ASIC.
I hope he's kidding.
Appologies for hi-jacking your thread drift gentlemen, but we need to keep our eyes on the ball a bit more perhaps......
OPERATION ORANGE 2011 | Protecting the Flying Public & Restoring the Piloting Profession
The video is particularly pertinent at 6:10, but most of the clip is a window into the future if this kind of practice is stopped. The regulator seems to be reluctant to act on their obligations here, so it is up to us to take the intiative and say NO. Hats off to the 45 or so who did.
OPERATION ORANGE 2011 | Protecting the Flying Public & Restoring the Piloting Profession
The video is particularly pertinent at 6:10, but most of the clip is a window into the future if this kind of practice is stopped. The regulator seems to be reluctant to act on their obligations here, so it is up to us to take the intiative and say NO. Hats off to the 45 or so who did
.
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.....and that is why all stops should have been pulled out to key Sully in front of the Senators!! Even by video link!!
A missed opportunity for some publicity. The press all around the world love this guy and he can do no wrong in the eyes of the public following the Hudson River landing.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
A missed opportunity for some publicity. The press all around the world love this guy and he can do no wrong in the eyes of the public following the Hudson River landing.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
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Word on the street. Parc Aviation to start advertising requirements crewing for two additional JQ VH A330's based in Singapore!!!!
Last edited by thrustpig; 29th May 2011 at 20:10.
Join Date: May 2001
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How funny
I have never paid for any endorsements my employer needs for me to do their work. I didnt want to degrade my career, so many people rushed past me to pay for an A320 or 737 endorsement to get in a big shinny jet, now the people that started the demise are bitching and carrying on when the next wave are coming through!!!!!
Get use to it, you guys changed the rules and now the next lot are changing them again!
I am happy I didnt loose my morals in the rush to get into a big shinny jet, as I actually get paid to work, am treated well and my jet is shinny enough for me!
I have never paid for any endorsements my employer needs for me to do their work. I didnt want to degrade my career, so many people rushed past me to pay for an A320 or 737 endorsement to get in a big shinny jet, now the people that started the demise are bitching and carrying on when the next wave are coming through!!!!!
Get use to it, you guys changed the rules and now the next lot are changing them again!
I am happy I didnt loose my morals in the rush to get into a big shinny jet, as I actually get paid to work, am treated well and my jet is shinny enough for me!
The late 1990s-
The mid 2000s-
I paid for a cadetship. Therefore I am scum.
Cost me 120-130k. After 5 years I tripled my salary.
-------
2012 ?-
I worked for free. Therefore I am scum.
After a couple of years I started getting paid. Once I started pulling a wage it was all worth it.
--------
2015 ?-
I paid a company for a year of building up my hours. Therefore I am scum.
Once I got my 500 hours though I applied for another job and got paid a decent wage so it was all worth it.
--------
Pay and conditions have been eroded block by block over many years.
Paying for an endorsement was seen in much the same light as paying for a cadetship (a 'cheap' cadetship aimed at reducing labor costs such as Jetstar, Rex etc) is now.
Those same people who paid for cadetships or took substandard contracts today, will be moaning about the people working on 1 year contracts or working for free in the future.
We all need to take ownership of the problem and realise that we didn't arrive at this point all of a sudden. The rug has been well and truly pulled out from under our feet, yet we are turning around in surprise wondering how the f#ck did that happen??!
I paid for an endorsement. Therefore I am scum.
Thats the thinking apparently.
Cost me about 15-16k, I doubled my salary and days off. Hhmm gee let me think.
Thats the thinking apparently.
Cost me about 15-16k, I doubled my salary and days off. Hhmm gee let me think.
I paid for a cadetship. Therefore I am scum.
Cost me 120-130k. After 5 years I tripled my salary.
-------
2012 ?-
I worked for free. Therefore I am scum.
After a couple of years I started getting paid. Once I started pulling a wage it was all worth it.
--------
2015 ?-
I paid a company for a year of building up my hours. Therefore I am scum.
Once I got my 500 hours though I applied for another job and got paid a decent wage so it was all worth it.
--------
Pay and conditions have been eroded block by block over many years.
Paying for an endorsement was seen in much the same light as paying for a cadetship (a 'cheap' cadetship aimed at reducing labor costs such as Jetstar, Rex etc) is now.
Those same people who paid for cadetships or took substandard contracts today, will be moaning about the people working on 1 year contracts or working for free in the future.
We all need to take ownership of the problem and realise that we didn't arrive at this point all of a sudden. The rug has been well and truly pulled out from under our feet, yet we are turning around in surprise wondering how the f#ck did that happen??!
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Lets see I wanted to fly for a major and live in Australia. Apart from QF who were not recruiting there were no other options. Perhaps I should have sat in the bush and felt proud that I had made a stand.
I read all of the EBA's and talked to numerous pilots/employees over many years. I picked the one that suited me best, prepared and got in. I paid for the endorsement as did 900 other pilots. My options were to stay in a job that I had with significantly worse conditions.
If you are to throw stones at me for paying 15k for working where I want to work then I say lets see your EBA and your conditions. Reality is: nice is what you like and what suits your needs. There is no one size fits all. For me the trade of 15k was well worth leaving a company with a toxic culture/crap min rest/f-all days off and no future etc etc. I would have sooner left aviation than worked there one more minute. Since moving to my current job I've never been happier in all my whole life. Well worth it. Cheers.
I read all of the EBA's and talked to numerous pilots/employees over many years. I picked the one that suited me best, prepared and got in. I paid for the endorsement as did 900 other pilots. My options were to stay in a job that I had with significantly worse conditions.
If you are to throw stones at me for paying 15k for working where I want to work then I say lets see your EBA and your conditions. Reality is: nice is what you like and what suits your needs. There is no one size fits all. For me the trade of 15k was well worth leaving a company with a toxic culture/crap min rest/f-all days off and no future etc etc. I would have sooner left aviation than worked there one more minute. Since moving to my current job I've never been happier in all my whole life. Well worth it. Cheers.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 31st May 2011 at 09:43.
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I have said it many times before, Pilots are great at screwing themselves over, an always will be. I have never paid for a rating but did head overseas to gain experience when I realised that the only way I was going to get work in New Zealand was to effectively work for free in GA. I wasn't willing to do that mainly because I couldn't afford to. On return to NZ the very same people that I know went and worked for 'free' in GA whilst living off Mum and Dad are giving me sh*t for trying to skip the normal flow of things by going overseas and was now ruining the industry by working for Jetstar who were also reducing terms and conditions. Well I am sorry but the industry was screwed the first time some young bright eyed thing offered to work for the 'experience' We are all guilty of it one way or another. These new cadets are merely the latest incarnation of this trend, in 10 years time when they are working for Emirates and are still only 28 they will view there time at Jetstar gaining experience as many of you view your time in the bush, sweeping hangers and flying for board.
We are all guilty of it one way or another. These new cadets are merely the latest incarnation of this trend, in 10 years time when they are working for Emirates and are still only 28 they will view there time at Jetstar gaining experience as many of you view your time in the bush, sweeping hangers and flying for board.
Artificial
Not a bad post with some good points. All except one which I take a minor issue with
"Well I am sorry but the industry was screwed the first time some young bright eyed thing offered to work for the 'experience' We are all guilty of it one way or another."
Not so-- I personally am not guilty of anything - 7 jet endorsements, numerous jobs behind me, never paid for a rating, never worked for free, never undercut anyone. I have just been damned lucky and I am the first to admit it. Not everyone has the luck I have had. But by the same token, I made my luck. Of all the stepping stones I have had, only once was a resume answered. All the rest I made happen with phone calls, badgering people, and the old "who you know."
I will never throw stones or cast dispersions on those who have paid for ratings or done whatever they have had to do. There are arguments to all sides of these issues. I have been lucky and I have never been in a position where I may have had to make that compromise. If I was, what would I have done at the time, would I have copped a crap contract, paid for a rating, or whatever. Well I can't answer that - too many factors to consider at the time - such as am I currently unemployed, do I have kids to feed and educate, do I have sick kids needing treatment????? Guys will have to make decisions based on the circumstancesat the time - personal circumstances, current aviation environment circumstances. Make your decision, live with it, don't whinge when it is not Nirvana.
Not a bad post with some good points. All except one which I take a minor issue with
"Well I am sorry but the industry was screwed the first time some young bright eyed thing offered to work for the 'experience'
We are all guilty of it one way or another."Not so-- I personally am not guilty of anything - 7 jet endorsements, numerous jobs behind me, never paid for a rating, never worked for free, never undercut anyone. I have just been damned lucky and I am the first to admit it. Not everyone has the luck I have had. But by the same token, I made my luck. Of all the stepping stones I have had, only once was a resume answered. All the rest I made happen with phone calls, badgering people, and the old "who you know."
I will never throw stones or cast dispersions on those who have paid for ratings or done whatever they have had to do. There are arguments to all sides of these issues. I have been lucky and I have never been in a position where I may have had to make that compromise. If I was, what would I have done at the time, would I have copped a crap contract, paid for a rating, or whatever. Well I can't answer that - too many factors to consider at the time - such as am I currently unemployed, do I have kids to feed and educate, do I have sick kids needing treatment????? Guys will have to make decisions based on the circumstancesat the time - personal circumstances, current aviation environment circumstances. Make your decision, live with it, don't whinge when it is not Nirvana.
Lets see I wanted to fly for a major and live in Australia. Apart from QF who were not recruiting there were no other options. Perhaps I should have sat in the bush and felt proud that I had made a stand.
If you are to throw stones at me for paying 15k for working where I want to work then..
I would argue that by paying for your endorsement you accepted conditions less than those before you therfore slowly eroding the standard. Should you have not paid for your endorsement when you did? No, of course not, because the next 50 people behind you would of.
It's death by a thousand cuts.
For pilots to be equipped with the right tools to fight this lowering of standards, we have to understand how we got to this point. What gets my goat is when people say "lets name and shame those accepting this new low".
We are all guilty of it one way or another.