Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

New JQ Contract

Old 17th May 2011, 16:48
  #141 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Asia
Posts: 36

[Mr Westaway rejected allegations Jetstar had used up all the goodwill Mr Joyce often cited as the airline group's biggest asset.

''Part of our secret of success is that we have always had open discourse [with staff],'' he said. ''The meetings occurring have been very constructive … and we will continue to have direct dialogue.'']

Simon, my boy, you live in la la land. Your statements show outright defiance of reality.
Pukka is offline  
Old 17th May 2011, 22:00
  #142 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,156
As one of those sitting on the sidelines I am, as no doubt most are, absolutely apalled at what JQ management are trying to get away with in this latest "contract".

What worries me, is that faced with such a revolt, management may tweak the contract here and there and then try to sell what will essentially be a dressed up turd. It's a common tactic during EBA negotiations, and the weak minded and naive quite often fall for it. I doubt very much the current JQ pilot group would fall for such skulldugery, but there are those Desperates waiting in the wings.

Lets face it, the JQ Aussie EBA is still nothing to write home about, but it is the current standard, and it has been agreed upon. Anything less would be a severe reduction in the JQ pilot's standard of living. And for what? So Buchanan, Joyce, and all the other parasites can pocket their bonuses at your expense!

I may be stating the obvious but, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, don't even consider anything less than the current agreed EBA. No matter how much these [email protected] try to dress up this latest abomination.
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 17th May 2011, 22:59
  #143 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 398
More dollars in aisles than tickets for Jetstar

Source; Geoff Easdown From: Herald Sun May 18, 2011

JETSTAR chief Bruce Buchanan has revealed the budget carrier is making more from in-flight service than ticket sales.
He told BusinessDaily last night that the profit from sales of ancillary items - such as cups of coffee, muffins, baggage and special seat charges - was about $24 a passenger.

This money goes straight to the bottom line.

"One way to look at it is that if we didn't have the ancillary revenue we wouldn't be making any money. We would be losing money," Mr Buchanan said, in a likely reference to the hurt caused by the rocketing price of jet fuel.

In other developments yesterday Jetstar parent Qantas rolled out its biggest gun - the 7.5 million member Frequent Flyer program - opening a new front in its war with arch rival Virgin Australia.

The Qantas loyalty program has been revamped to give Jetstar passengers the ability to earn and burn points, a move designed to appeal to the budget-conscious suits market.

..A new alliance, like the one Qantas has with Woolworths, has been struck with Optus where its subscribers will be able to generate frequent flyer points.

Qantas chief Alan Joyce said the changes will give the airline a competitive edge on other carriers.

Under the changes Jetstar's fare structure will change.

StarClass - the carrier's equivalent of business - will be replaced with a full business product, a move that industry observers say is clearly aimed at Virgin Australia's attempt to lure small and medium businesses.
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Old 18th May 2011, 00:37
  #144 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 451
This might explain everything

Big salaries can lead to psychological damage
Fri, 03 Dec, 01:00 PM
By Alice Uribe, ninemsn Money

The financial service industry practice of paying young traders huge salaries could be psychologically damaging, an Australian academic says.

"Most traders are young because they burn out and some of them are paid considerably more than $350,000 per year," said UTS Centre for Corporate Governance director Thomas Clarke.

"It is a constant danger that when people are heavily incentivised towards performance, the consequences can be very serious ... and are bound to lead to actions which could lead to potentially fraudulent behavior."

Mr Clarke's comments followed yesterday’s sentencing of 25-year-old fund manager John Joseph Hartman to a minimum of three years in jail on 25 charges of insider trading.

The former Sydney private schoolboy was earning $350,000 a year as a share dealer by the time he was 21, entering a world that "corrupted his values", Supreme Court Justice Peter McClennan said.

"Paying $350,000 to a recent graduate of 21 years of age carrying out a task of modest responsibility underlines the extent to which the values which underpin our society can be compromised," Justice McClennan said.

Mr Clarke said because traders were very young, they were often not prepared to deal with the pressures that came with their highly paid jobs.

Companies should take part of the blame for cases such as Hartman’s, Mr Clarke said.

"The financial industry needs to look at performance indicators and devise ones that encourage honesty rather than recklessness and if the traders are inclined towards recklessness, I would blame the companies as much as the trader," he said.

Financial recruiter Thomas Hancock said that while salaries varied from a standard of $60,000 per year to a high of $100,000 for “sought after” new grads, salaries could rise very quickly once bonuses were added.

"In some organisations there is a bonus structure of 50 percent of base salary," he said.

"If someone is trading well, they are going to get paid a good salary. And if they are doing well, banks are going to want to keep them or else someone else will pay them more."

Tim Samway, a fund manager at Hyperion Asset Management, said that in his early days as a broker he saw young brokers getting paid $1 million dollars year.

"It's a real drought and flood type scenario, but when it’s good, it’s very very good. But with the GFC the flash has definitely gone out of the industry," he said.

Mr Samway said that it was “obscene and unreasonable” that a 21-year-old would get that kind of salary.

"I’ve been exposed to individuals who have defrauded companies, and they often start by dabbling and then it becomes a slippery path. Young people don’t always have the emotional maturity to deal with that amount of money," he said.

Mr Hancock said that due to competition in the industry it was unlikely that this practice would change, but financial institutions needed to take more responsibility for mentoring young staff.

"You really have to look at the values of the person when it comes to insider trading and it is the responsibility of the organisation to monitor this," he said.

Giving evidence during the trial, Hartman's father Keith, a prominent obstetrician, described the lifestyle his son had as "plastic".

Justice McClennan referenced the description when handing down his sentence.

"Overseas holidays and gambling trips to Las Vegas and other casinos, together with an expensive luxury motor vehicle, became part of his life."

Hartman was found guilty of passing on information to a close friend about the purchase and disposal of stocks.
John Citizen is online now  
Old 18th May 2011, 00:44
  #145 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Southern Sun
Posts: 417
...and for anyone thinking of joining? Hmmmm. I wouldn't recommend it as it stands. But IF you decide to join, please read EVERY bit of fine print, because if you sign up, you will have very little sympathy from the guys in the crew room, or in the LHS when you feel you want to vent, when you can't go away for the week end on YOUR DAYS OFF, as crewing won't release you. It is ridiculous
Did not seem to cause any concern for the Lame, the Maimed, Soldiers of Fortune and Thieves in a past era, nor will it cause concern to the same to these `types' and others in the current era?
Dark Knight is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 01:18
  #146 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Shire
Posts: 2,898
Great to see my union has filed proceedings in the federal court against Jetstar.

The AFAP is seeking an injunction to stop Jetstar offering the contract as it stands (does this mean the company can change it though and re-offer it?).

This action is filed for the 10th of June.

All you GA pilots out there, please join the union. This affects all your futures if you ever want to fly a jet on decent terms and conditions.

I hope you have been forwarded a copy of this contract which has been doing the rounds of late. Put it up in your crew rooms, your caravan park, your tent, and even your flying school.

If the A team succeeds, your future will be pistons in the bush not being able to afford to fly a jet in the cities.
The Green Goblin is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 01:19
  #147 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,383
KRUSTY, the reality is that people will join on this contract. QF is no longer an option and VA isn't going to grow much.

They will get their 320 endorsement and 1000 hours on type. They will then leave to go to Strategic, Tiger or more likely overseas. A lot of the minimum criteria for overseas carriers include experience on type.

Jetstar will become another part of the GA pilgrimage on the way to an airline job. How do I know this? I know people in this exact position: they just want 500hrs and will then piss off.

I feel pity for the guys in the Left hand seat. The new era will be itinerant FO's that come and go.

This trio Bruce, Alan and David (BAD) they're like drunks with the keys to a brewery. Julia cut them each a personalised set.
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Old 18th May 2011, 02:05
  #148 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queenland, Australia
Posts: 178
Hat, my biggest concern is the welfare of the current experienced f/o's who won't be getting a command off the EBA in the future as 'promised'.
aulglarse is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 02:40
  #149 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 131
Xenophon Press Release


Independent Senator for South Australia, Nick Xenophon, has described changes being made to contracts of new Jetstar pilots, which require them to be on call in their home city, even on days off, "as absurd and unacceptable".
"This is a disgraceful intrusion into the private lives of pilots and their families," Nick said.
Senator Xenophon, who earlier this year initiated a Senate Inquiry into pilot training and airline safety said: "If this clause is allowed to stand, pilots will not be able to travel with their families on their rostered days off without the express permission of the airline."
Under Clause 6 of the contracts being offered to new Jetstar cadets, it is a condition of employment that employees "reside in (their) Home Base for the term of their employment or ensure (they) are available for contact in (their) Home Base except on leave or when (they) are cleared to leave (their) Home Base on days off by crew scheduling".
"In other words, pilots have to check with the airline what they can do on their days off," Nick said.
"These changes virtually put pilots in home detention," Nick said. "Jetstar should not be treating pilots like they're Lindsay Lohan."
In recent days, more than 340 Jetstar pilots emailed group Chief Executive Officer Bruce Buchanan arguing the contracts were deficient and could pose a risk to the flying public.
As well as slashing a range of entitlements, the contracts will see cadets saddled with a training debt to the company of up to $150,000, while they are earning as little as $34,000 a year.
"I don't want the pilot of the plane I'm flying sitting in the cockpit at 30,000 feet worrying about how he's going to pay back the boss," Nick said. "I want pilots to be totally focussed on keeping the plane in the air."
Senator Xenophon has been inundated will emails and phone calls from concerned pilots and will be referring the new Jetstar contracts to the current Senate Inquiry into pilot training and airline safety, as well as the Senate Education Employment and Workplace Relations Committee.
strim is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 02:46
  #150 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,383


loose cannon


an unpredictable person or thing, liable to cause damage if not kept in check by others.


the allusion in the phrase is to improperly secured cannons on ships which were likely to roll about on deck and damage the ship. No evidence has come to light to indicate that the phrase was used by sailors in the days that ships carried cannons. The term is alluded to in victor hugo’s novel ninety three, 1874. A translation of the french original describes cannons being tossed about onboard following a violent incident onboard ship:

"the carronade, hurled forward by the pitching, dashed into this knot of men, and crushed four at the first blow; then, flung back and shot out anew by the rolling, it cut in two a fifth poor fellow" ...
" the enormous cannon was left alone. She was given up to herself. She was her own mistress, and mistress of the vessel. She could do what she willed with both."

henry kingsley picked up this reference in his novel number seventeen, 1875 :

"at once, of course, the ship was in the trough of the sea, a more fearfully dangerous engine of destruction than mr. Victor hugo’s celebrated loose cannon."

the earliest figurative use of 'loose cannon', i.e. A usage not relating to actual cannons, in print that i can find is from the galveston daily news, december 1889:

The negro vote in the south is a unit now mainly because it is opposed by the combined white vote. It would in no event become, as mr. Grady once said, "a loose cannon in a storm-tossed ship."
Mr. Hat is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 02:47
  #151 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Senator Xenophon.........we must keep this guy in the Senate!! He seems to be one of only a few Federal Politicians willing to hang it out there for what he believes in.

Good Luck J* guys........the rest of the industry is watching, and holding our breaths!

Dogman is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 03:39
  #152 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 5
For the SMALL number of pilots who have signed this contract... The stars in your eyes are a direct result of the rocks in your head smashing together
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Old 18th May 2011, 04:47
  #153 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
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"One way to look at it is that if we didn't have the ancillary revenue we wouldn't be making any money. We would be losing money," Mr Buchanan said.
And there you have it - straight from the horses mouth. Jetstar fares are not sustainable without finding other ways to make passengers pay. It might even be fare to say that low cost carrier fares are not sustainable.

All the rubbish about how the legacy carriers are gouging the traveling public. As I have often said, if you want to pay bus fare - travel by bus!

Last edited by Oakape; 18th May 2011 at 11:53. Reason: Full quote already posted
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Old 18th May 2011, 04:50
  #154 (permalink)  
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Age: 53
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I do too. Not for their physical safety, but their career. The few people who have signed up to this will be known throughout the industry regardless of whether they're good people or not and will be ostracised for a good 15 years or so. Their names will become known on flight decks across Ausi.Personally I don't have anything against them because everyone has their own personal situations to deal with, but they really would be better to sit in their Metro or Baron 58 until this blows over. Poor buggers probably got the call and thought they'd made it.
framer is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 05:27
  #155 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz land
Posts: 19
Just from my view talking to fellow Pilots and close mates it would seem that there are more Pilots leaving the industry altogether than accepting these contracts.

I dont know anybody who has accepted this new contract by one star and if I did then I would no longer be associating with them anymore.

Its sad when people have invested so much to then receive so little
T80 is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 08:14
  #156 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: a nica place
Posts: 234
letter template?

Jetstar wannabe....... maybe I would have said that before this garbage started spewing out of the mouth of Jet* HR/Management.

I was never offered the "contract" but will be saying thanks but no thanks if it has the hide to turn up at my door.

What a joke.
There is support on the outside for you.

Hey as a suggestion if you could get some letter templates to send to local MP's, Nick X etc etc and other officials then that will help us non-letter writing peoples to join the "education" and awareness of MP's and the like??

Good luck guys!
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Old 18th May 2011, 08:24
  #157 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Za farzer land
Age: 49
Posts: 163
How does the rest of the pilot community get a hold of Bruce Buchanans email so we can all write an email?

This is not just a Jetstar problem.
Fruet Mich is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 09:19
  #158 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 53
Posts: 2,767
How does the rest of the pilot community get a hold of Bruce Buchanans email so we can all write an email?

This is not just a Jetstar problem.
You'd get one more from me....especially if it had Senitor X's email address as well. If it was just BB then all we'd achieve is overloading his server. I reckon you might even get pilots from all over the globe emailing.
framer is offline  
Old 18th May 2011, 10:31
  #159 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: tassie
Posts: 198
it's not hard.....

add a @jetstar dot com the end of the parasites name.
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Old 18th May 2011, 11:23
  #160 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Southern hemisphere
Posts: 18
In light of the afap proceedings does anyone have any ideas on how those in the pool should approach this? Some of them are yet to respond and need some guidance.
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