BNE ATC Holding
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane
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Send the bill to BAC
After numerous laps around Gayndah/Maleny, the thought crossed my mind on how nice it would be for companies to return the favour to BAC and send a bill for holding flight time to BAC.
After all since BAC own it, they're responsible for providing a service (runway), if the service is poor, well- how about some contractual penalty clauses
Would love to know how much all operators combined hurt overall in a week due to BAC incompetence.
The ATC guys/ladies, they're doing the best they can with limited resources - hats off to you.
After all since BAC own it, they're responsible for providing a service (runway), if the service is poor, well- how about some contractual penalty clauses
Would love to know how much all operators combined hurt overall in a week due to BAC incompetence.
The ATC guys/ladies, they're doing the best they can with limited resources - hats off to you.
Join Date: Jul 1999
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Word on the street is that one international operator has already commenced legal action against one of the parties involved in the BNE show for excessive delays costing them and are seeking compensation.
Lets see if they settle, I know three other operators that have been talking about it and they are now watching to see where the first challenge ends up, in front of a magistrate or settled before the sordid tale goes public
Lets say that their green credentials are going to be sorely tested when they see how many tonnes of additional fuel are being spent drilling holes over our favorites SMOKA/MLY/BLAKA/CG....
But then what is the governmental incentive to fix the issue..... the more juice we burn, the more excise and now carbon tax levies we pay and the coin goes back to consolidated revenue not aviation infrastructure.
Lets see if they settle, I know three other operators that have been talking about it and they are now watching to see where the first challenge ends up, in front of a magistrate or settled before the sordid tale goes public
Lets say that their green credentials are going to be sorely tested when they see how many tonnes of additional fuel are being spent drilling holes over our favorites SMOKA/MLY/BLAKA/CG....
But then what is the governmental incentive to fix the issue..... the more juice we burn, the more excise and now carbon tax levies we pay and the coin goes back to consolidated revenue not aviation infrastructure.
After numerous laps around Gayndah/Maleny, the thought crossed my mind on how nice it would be for companies to return the favour to BAC and send a bill for holding flight time to BAC.
After all since BAC own it, they're responsible for providing a service (runway), if the service is poor, well- how about some contractual penalty clauses
After all since BAC own it, they're responsible for providing a service (runway), if the service is poor, well- how about some contractual penalty clauses
Runways etc are a finite resource. They obviously have a finite capacity. If your company and others make the commercial decision that they will send more aircraft than the resource can accommodate, and thus will have to wait their turn to use it, why is it all BAC's problem?
Why not direct it to the original cause - the Sirrus driver who awakened the risk boffins who determined that after 20 years of safe use the cross runway was now too risky
If it's too risky to do converging runways ops after dark in Brisbane, what about other airports that do crossing runway ops all night, and land and hold short ops and simultaneuos opposite direction ops? What's the difference?
When you live....
What's the difference?
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Here's a new idea...
The Government has decided that air travel is not a public service.
Airports are now private money-making businesses, and airlines are private money-making businesses.
Instead of ordering aircraft landing times by "first in first out", why not have "Express Lanes" or "Priority Slot Times" for the airlines that choose to pay for them. The more the airline pays, the higher their priority.
With the current setup, a backpacker paying $10 for a ticket on sale on an LCC gets the same priority as a Business Class passenger paying $1000 on a premium airline. That Business Class passenger is happy to pay the big bucks to get to their meeting ON TIME.
Why shouldn't they be able to pay a premium for an express lane to the airport - the premium of which will be paid to the airport via a higher landing/slot charge which will help in turn to fund airport expansion. The backpackers can circle a little longer and after a couple of drinks probably won't even notice.
And if the LCCs don't want to circle, maybe the landing/slot charges should vary based on peak/off-peak landing times. Money talks, and it is only the peak times that are affecting BNE/PER airports in a serious way at the moment, although it will get worse until new runways are constructed.
The Government has decided that air travel is not a public service.
Airports are now private money-making businesses, and airlines are private money-making businesses.
Instead of ordering aircraft landing times by "first in first out", why not have "Express Lanes" or "Priority Slot Times" for the airlines that choose to pay for them. The more the airline pays, the higher their priority.
With the current setup, a backpacker paying $10 for a ticket on sale on an LCC gets the same priority as a Business Class passenger paying $1000 on a premium airline. That Business Class passenger is happy to pay the big bucks to get to their meeting ON TIME.
Why shouldn't they be able to pay a premium for an express lane to the airport - the premium of which will be paid to the airport via a higher landing/slot charge which will help in turn to fund airport expansion. The backpackers can circle a little longer and after a couple of drinks probably won't even notice.
And if the LCCs don't want to circle, maybe the landing/slot charges should vary based on peak/off-peak landing times. Money talks, and it is only the peak times that are affecting BNE/PER airports in a serious way at the moment, although it will get worse until new runways are constructed.
Last edited by HF3000; 9th Jul 2012 at 12:50.
UnderneatTheRadar, I see the risk as similar to LAHSO and SODPROPS. Even Brisbane does opposite direction ops for later evening departures. In any of these configrations the risks are there. I don't think a blanket ban on 14/32 is the answer. Surely arrivals can be staggered and if 14/32 could be used for more departures would help.
If only we could get the people who said "NO" to using this runway to fix other issues. i.e. RPT's into CTAF's, Jets into 30 metre runways, annoying CTA steps, limited Cat3 ILSs let alone CAT1s, not enough runways, curfew issues, pilot(actually most frontline staff) experience and training, regulations that no-one understands....................
If only we could get the people who said "NO" to using this runway to fix other issues. i.e. RPT's into CTAF's, Jets into 30 metre runways, annoying CTA steps, limited Cat3 ILSs let alone CAT1s, not enough runways, curfew issues, pilot(actually most frontline staff) experience and training, regulations that no-one understands....................
Join Date: Jan 2009
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DNS
I thought on the latest plans for the 3rd runway 14/32 was staying? If this has changed again then we should be speaking up. There is no economic or safety case to convert 14/32 to a taxiway.
I thought on the latest plans for the 3rd runway 14/32 was staying? If this has changed again then we should be speaking up. There is no economic or safety case to convert 14/32 to a taxiway.
Go check out the rest of the world. What you are complaining about happens all the time all over the world - it's not that big a deal. Surely not 14 pages worth.
What is ridiculous in this country is that we are holding in CAVOK conditions with low traffic density. Holding overseas is often caused by low viz approaches not a lack of infrastructure.
BNE had a 188 000 movements in 2010 which is not in the top 50 in the world. It isn't even in the top 5 in Australia!!!
Yet people are copping 1 hour holds in CAVOK.
Gatwick had 243 000 movements on one runway with English weather.
We are now also paying a Carbon Tax on fuel which just adds to the cost of flying, yet we are wasting time and fuel doing laps.
Maybe it's time we start to look how the rest of the world does aviation because we can't figure it out here.
Last edited by neville_nobody; 10th Jul 2012 at 00:32.
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Neville, I know there is a lot of holding for BN but I'm not sure how many days there are with 1hr holds in cavok.
Regarding movements, BN is 3rd busiest in Oz, just behind Melbourne. Throwing in the ex-GAAP fields like Moorabin, Jandakot etc who rack up thousands of circuits with bugger-all traffic above 7000kg, to prove that BN isn't in the top 5 Australian airports is comparing apples and oranges. BN did 198000 in 2011 and will likely be 200000+ in 2012.
Regarding movements, BN is 3rd busiest in Oz, just behind Melbourne. Throwing in the ex-GAAP fields like Moorabin, Jandakot etc who rack up thousands of circuits with bugger-all traffic above 7000kg, to prove that BN isn't in the top 5 Australian airports is comparing apples and oranges. BN did 198000 in 2011 and will likely be 200000+ in 2012.
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BNE figures will be 206,000 for the financial year ending June 30 2012 .Last week 2 july till 8 july 4,252 movements equating to 221,711 per year with a further 215 movements a week to commence in the next 3 months as well as many more not yet announced .Bne has just got aot more busier in the past 2weeks as i mentioned in this thread earlier on.
BNE last Thursday handled 682 movements and MEL 659.
Sites you need to look at are
Movements at Australian airports | Airservices
Also the noise and complaint reports also show the exact daily movements till 31 March 2012.
BNE last Thursday handled 682 movements and MEL 659.
Sites you need to look at are
Movements at Australian airports | Airservices
Also the noise and complaint reports also show the exact daily movements till 31 March 2012.
Last edited by tourismman; 10th Jul 2012 at 01:42.
Try KSFO.
From memory they have simultaneous landings on 28 L/R at the same time as simultaneous departures off 01 L/R
Fun!!
From memory they have simultaneous landings on 28 L/R at the same time as simultaneous departures off 01 L/R
Fun!!
Last edited by nitpicker330; 10th Jul 2012 at 05:56.
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Yes Nitpicker 330,
You can view videos from you tube wing tip to wing tip parallel landings my son loves them, the ones from SFO. They seem so close like 500m apart.
You can view videos from you tube wing tip to wing tip parallel landings my son loves them, the ones from SFO. They seem so close like 500m apart.
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HF3000
Where is the incentive for private enterprise to build more expensive infrastructure if they are allowed to auction off to the highest bidder for what they already have?
Why shouldn't they be able to pay a premium for an express lane to the airport - the premium of which will be paid to the airport via a higher landing/slot charge which will help in turn to fund airport expansion.