BNE ATC Holding
Grandpa Aerotart
We arrived right at the start of the evening busy period. When we checked in, the airspace infront of us looked empty as the frequency somewhat quiet. I even commented to the crew that it looked like we would get no delays. About a minute later the obviously shaky voice of a guy I work with every day pulled our speed, cut our descent off, turned us, descended us hard and put us into the hold. We then hit the hold and were taken long outbound and inflicted with more vectors and intermediate levels and rapid descents
Hah. You get your money's worth. I must admit that for all the hate the guys at YBBN get on this web site, we get very little considering the amount of 'rubbing' we give you guys in D Town.
Sorry to hijack.
Sorry to hijack.
there's zip any of us plebs can do other than speed up, slow down,turn this way turn that way cross here at this time cancel that etc etc etc to appease the scrabble board players down there in the twr
Bottums Up
It surprises me that we don't have more proscriptive approach speeds. I'm also surprised how often, when one is asked for max speed to the field, one has to encourage Bloggs not to slow down to 210 kias at 20nm to run when there is no operational imperative to do so. 
As for visuals vs instruments to maximize runway capacity, it's a furphy, look at the worlds busiest high capacity aerodromes, very few 'visuals' and they still get the job done without missing slots.
I'm also surprised how often, when one is asked for max speed to the field, one has to encourage Bloggs not to slow down to 210 kias at 20nm to run when there is no operational imperative to do so.
Grandpa Aerotart
Hah. You get your money's worth. I must admit that for all the hate the guys at YBBN get on this web site, we get very little considering the amount of 'rubbing' we give you guys in D Town.
Have we revealed our pprune identities without realizing? Hah. Small world if so. 383?
If it aint Boeing I aint going
There is however, no need to have an ILS done in VMC to accomplish this.
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 5th Jul 2012 at 01:49.
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Fortunately/unfortunately ATC, crews, companies etc all have slightly differing goals as to what they're trying to achieve, but ultimately, safety is at the top of everyone's list. Since ATC has the 'big picture' with regard to traffic flow, conflictions, priorities, etc, they are the ones who have to make it fit together through the various techniques and strategies that have already been explained here.
If you can do it, my suggestion would be to get on the phone to ATC and arrange for a visit to one of the centres and sit in with approach and/or the arrivals sectors one afternoon/evening during the week. That way you'll get to see the good, the bad, and the ugly of how things work from the ATC perspective.
If you can do it, my suggestion would be to get on the phone to ATC and arrange for a visit to one of the centres and sit in with approach and/or the arrivals sectors one afternoon/evening during the week. That way you'll get to see the good, the bad, and the ugly of how things work from the ATC perspective.
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Courier Mail Article
The Brisbane Courier Mail has an article in today on the Brisbane Airport debacle... "Air schedules in chaos because Brisbane Airport's two runways can't operate at same time at night".
Air schedules in chaos because Brisbane Airport's two runways can't operate at same time at night | The Courier-Mail
It refers to Brisbane's other roundabout, thousands of passengers circling at night waiting to land. There are many angry and frustrated blogs on the site.
So it appears it's been a problem for sometime now and is nothing short of disgraceful for a modern airport in this day and age.
I came back from Townsville the other week and out over Kilcoy we did a 180 deg turn and headed back but it turned out to be one big holding pattern for about 15- 20 mins.
Apart from the frustration of getting in late, what about the fuel burn, extra duty time, pick up inconvenience etc.
From memory I think part of the problem goes back to the local member, one Kevin Rudd who had procrastinated and held off with the second runway because constituents were worried about noise, the usual nonsense with any airport expansion.
Now we are all paying the price for the delaying tactics.
Air schedules in chaos because Brisbane Airport's two runways can't operate at same time at night | The Courier-Mail
It refers to Brisbane's other roundabout, thousands of passengers circling at night waiting to land. There are many angry and frustrated blogs on the site.
So it appears it's been a problem for sometime now and is nothing short of disgraceful for a modern airport in this day and age.
I came back from Townsville the other week and out over Kilcoy we did a 180 deg turn and headed back but it turned out to be one big holding pattern for about 15- 20 mins.
Apart from the frustration of getting in late, what about the fuel burn, extra duty time, pick up inconvenience etc.
From memory I think part of the problem goes back to the local member, one Kevin Rudd who had procrastinated and held off with the second runway because constituents were worried about noise, the usual nonsense with any airport expansion.
Now we are all paying the price for the delaying tactics.
Last edited by hadagutful; 5th Jul 2012 at 05:22.
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15 - 20 mins holding, getting told to slow down and speed up, descend at this or that rate, high or low compared to perfect profile - you guys can't seriously be complaining - just do it and go home happy that you did your job and landed the thing. That's what pilots are there for - to deal with all that.
Go check out the rest of the world. What you are complaining about happens all the time all over the world - it's not that big a deal. Surely not 14 pages worth.
Go check out the rest of the world. What you are complaining about happens all the time all over the world - it's not that big a deal. Surely not 14 pages worth.
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All OK for you....
Well yes, it's all OK for the guys up the front, of course you should be able to handle holding and other ATC requirements, that's what you are trained for.
But what about the poor suffering pax who generally don't know what the hell is going on and are rarely told.
Lots of stuff might be happening overseas but that's no excuse for what happens here!
We are talking about a lack of infrastructure planning and to think that a large and growing city like Brisbane has only one runway at it's primary airport in 2012 and for years to come is a damn disgrace.
But what about the poor suffering pax who generally don't know what the hell is going on and are rarely told.
Lots of stuff might be happening overseas but that's no excuse for what happens here!
We are talking about a lack of infrastructure planning and to think that a large and growing city like Brisbane has only one runway at it's primary airport in 2012 and for years to come is a damn disgrace.
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How much does QLD Govt owe? Heading towards a Billion / Trillion ? They could not get their heads around a second runway , federal Govt are frozen . So who is left ? Qantas think their future is in Asia ! Maybe ask the Chinese or Arabs !
I think the answer will soon be bigger aircraft with less frequency.
Nothing is going to happen in Sydney, I'm not sure if there is a plan for another runway in Melb with Avalon down the road and nothing in Brisbane to 2020.
Nothing is going to happen in Sydney, I'm not sure if there is a plan for another runway in Melb with Avalon down the road and nothing in Brisbane to 2020.
Grandpa Aerotart
Where does BAC get off asking airlines to pay for the their (BAC's) new runway?
If they did would there be no landing fees for those airlines that PAID for the runway? Yeah right.
Yet more proof that privatising natural monopolies doesn't work. I suppose we're lucky it is just swamp to the west of the current runway complex - otherwise it would already be industrial parks.
If they did would there be no landing fees for those airlines that PAID for the runway? Yeah right.
Yet more proof that privatising natural monopolies doesn't work. I suppose we're lucky it is just swamp to the west of the current runway complex - otherwise it would already be industrial parks.