AAP MBF Trustees sending Member toward Bankruptcy
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I would seek very good advice before commencing litigation. It's expensive and it's usually final.
The Rules appear to be straight forward with regard to permanent loss of Class One medical certificate. I am perplexed as to what the problem may be.
The Rules appear to be straight forward with regard to permanent loss of Class One medical certificate. I am perplexed as to what the problem may be.
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I though that the fund paid out at the loss of your Class 1 regardless of other Doctor's opinions with the proviso that you didn't get injured in a war or hang gliding or motorcycle racing etc etc.
You can't have the situation where CASA say one thing and the fund's doctor says another and they refuse to pay out. Why bother being in the fund if that's the case?
I am also surpised at the number of people on here freely admitting that they haven't read the rules!!!
There are a few exemptions in there that could quite legitimately exclude you from a payout so it pays to be aware of what they are!
You can't have the situation where CASA say one thing and the fund's doctor says another and they refuse to pay out. Why bother being in the fund if that's the case?
I am also surpised at the number of people on here freely admitting that they haven't read the rules!!!
There are a few exemptions in there that could quite legitimately exclude you from a payout so it pays to be aware of what they are!
Last edited by ga_trojan; 26th Apr 2011 at 06:00.
I agree Trojan, I have now read the rules thanks to this topic.
That's my view as well.
I'm not that far off retirement so I don't really care, however I would be considering my options if I was younger. As I mentioned before I would be considering putting the premiums somewhere else, that's going to pay some returns in interest. Unlike most pilots, I don't work for a company that pays my premiums or part there of. That's my opinion anyway.
You can't have the situation where CASA say one thing and the fund's doctor says another and they refuse to pay out. Why bother being in the fund if that's the case?
I'm not that far off retirement so I don't really care, however I would be considering my options if I was younger. As I mentioned before I would be considering putting the premiums somewhere else, that's going to pay some returns in interest. Unlike most pilots, I don't work for a company that pays my premiums or part there of. That's my opinion anyway.
I've heard other horror stories as well, and as a result I recently looked into gaining loss of licence insurance through another provider. I found it very difficult to find and product that is affordable, that was until someone put me in touch with the transport workers union.
I'm not a member of the TWU, but they have investigated LOL insurance through their brokers and have come up with a product that has better benefits (eg it will payout if you bust yourself up through a sporting injury etc), the only catch is the capital benefit is circa $300k. That being said, the premiums are close to half of that of AFAP when you include membership costs etc, and it is an insurance policy.
** It's just some food for thought, there's now some other options if you're prepared to research it and the AFAP no longer have a monopoly.
** I hope it doesn't sound like I'm pedalling TWU membership (I haven't joined up myself), I'm still waiting to see the final PDS's from their insurance brokers.
I'm not a member of the TWU, but they have investigated LOL insurance through their brokers and have come up with a product that has better benefits (eg it will payout if you bust yourself up through a sporting injury etc), the only catch is the capital benefit is circa $300k. That being said, the premiums are close to half of that of AFAP when you include membership costs etc, and it is an insurance policy.
** It's just some food for thought, there's now some other options if you're prepared to research it and the AFAP no longer have a monopoly.
** I hope it doesn't sound like I'm pedalling TWU membership (I haven't joined up myself), I'm still waiting to see the final PDS's from their insurance brokers.
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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* Latest Update:
The Trustees had a board meeting last Friday. On Monday afternoon, I called the MBF office to ask the outcome and the office Manager was out. I left a message for her to call me back. One has to ask, why is it up to the member waiting on an outcome having to call the Office. They should be calling the member first thing!
It is now Thursday and I have had no phone calls from the Office. I have had no emails from the office. I have had no emails, letters nor any communication whatsoever from the Chairman. The last correspondence from the AAP ABF was the email I posted last month.
I have not written to the Trustees as they have shown that they ignore all my other letters. Public humiliation looks like my only option!
The only reason I am posting any of this on Pprune is because I am getting no information from the Trustees.
Today I did receive the monthly benefit into my bank account.
The Trustees have a duty to inform me as per the rules as to how I am to get my Medical back or why they are not paying me the Capital Benefit. They cannot just ignore me.
Some of you may not be aware but when the AAP MBF pays the monthly benefit, the Taxation department assesses this as an income so I pay tax. As I have a so called income, I am inegible for a health care card, or any other benefits from Centrelink. The pills I have to buy every month to keep me alive is now up to $200 – every month.
For those of you who suggested passing the hat around, thanks but no thanks. The hat has already been passed around; it’s called the AAP MBF. The current Trustees are morally bankrupt in not informing me as per their obligation within the rules as to how to move forward.
I have been to 3 different Cardiologists, all agreeing that my condition is permanent and medication is the only treatment. One of the Cardiologists has stated that 70% of patients with my condition never need surgical intervention. The Cardiologist who I was sent to by the Trustees stated that there is no guarantee that any surgery would fix the underlying problem with my Heart.
If the trustees wanted to cover their buts, why did they send me to another cardiologist who agreed with the other 2 and them ignore the report?
In the meeting in November, Mike Charlesworth stated in front of the 2 other Trustees that they have paid the Capital Benefit to a member who refused to have an Angiogram. I have had an Angiogram, The Cardiologist stated in his report that I need Medication, not Surgery.
I do not have private health insurance due to fanatical reasons and I have checked with Cairns Base Hospital about elective surgery on my Heart. I CANNOT have ELLECTIVE HEART Surgery - period. I have 3 Cardiologist reports stating that it is not required. The only time I will have Surgery is when I have a heart attack!
When is that going to be? According to one Cardiologist I have a 70% chance of never needing it. If I do have a heart attack and then need surgery, how old will I be? In another 10 years when I’m 63? Then wait 2 years before CASA reassess my Class 1 when I’m 65?
I have booked into my DAME for another go at CASA next week, just so I have another written failure to regain my Class 1. Is this what the Trustees want? I don’t know, they wont talk to me!
I have not been able to get to the accountant yet because I have been stuck in bed with lower back problems. I spent a night in Hospital on morphine over Easter and have been on vallium ever since to relieve the pain. Yes my wife has kicked me out, I am sleeping in the camper trailer. The second hand furniture dealer has come around and taken all our good furniture to sell on consignment, they wouldn’t buy it off us. One car will be repossessed in June, the other in July leaving us with no transport.
All because these gutless trustees think one day I will get my medical back. What a joke.
Dave Harget must he one gutless individual seeing he refuses to pick up the phone, email me or even write to me.
Regardless of the outcome I will be putting myself up for election in November because these Trustees need a kick up the arse for their lack of support for members when they loose their medical. Refusing to communicate in any way in offensive and insulting.
Mark Whitaker
The Trustees had a board meeting last Friday. On Monday afternoon, I called the MBF office to ask the outcome and the office Manager was out. I left a message for her to call me back. One has to ask, why is it up to the member waiting on an outcome having to call the Office. They should be calling the member first thing!
It is now Thursday and I have had no phone calls from the Office. I have had no emails from the office. I have had no emails, letters nor any communication whatsoever from the Chairman. The last correspondence from the AAP ABF was the email I posted last month.
I have not written to the Trustees as they have shown that they ignore all my other letters. Public humiliation looks like my only option!
The only reason I am posting any of this on Pprune is because I am getting no information from the Trustees.
Today I did receive the monthly benefit into my bank account.
The Trustees have a duty to inform me as per the rules as to how I am to get my Medical back or why they are not paying me the Capital Benefit. They cannot just ignore me.
Some of you may not be aware but when the AAP MBF pays the monthly benefit, the Taxation department assesses this as an income so I pay tax. As I have a so called income, I am inegible for a health care card, or any other benefits from Centrelink. The pills I have to buy every month to keep me alive is now up to $200 – every month.
For those of you who suggested passing the hat around, thanks but no thanks. The hat has already been passed around; it’s called the AAP MBF. The current Trustees are morally bankrupt in not informing me as per their obligation within the rules as to how to move forward.
I have been to 3 different Cardiologists, all agreeing that my condition is permanent and medication is the only treatment. One of the Cardiologists has stated that 70% of patients with my condition never need surgical intervention. The Cardiologist who I was sent to by the Trustees stated that there is no guarantee that any surgery would fix the underlying problem with my Heart.
If the trustees wanted to cover their buts, why did they send me to another cardiologist who agreed with the other 2 and them ignore the report?
In the meeting in November, Mike Charlesworth stated in front of the 2 other Trustees that they have paid the Capital Benefit to a member who refused to have an Angiogram. I have had an Angiogram, The Cardiologist stated in his report that I need Medication, not Surgery.
I do not have private health insurance due to fanatical reasons and I have checked with Cairns Base Hospital about elective surgery on my Heart. I CANNOT have ELLECTIVE HEART Surgery - period. I have 3 Cardiologist reports stating that it is not required. The only time I will have Surgery is when I have a heart attack!
When is that going to be? According to one Cardiologist I have a 70% chance of never needing it. If I do have a heart attack and then need surgery, how old will I be? In another 10 years when I’m 63? Then wait 2 years before CASA reassess my Class 1 when I’m 65?
I have booked into my DAME for another go at CASA next week, just so I have another written failure to regain my Class 1. Is this what the Trustees want? I don’t know, they wont talk to me!
I have not been able to get to the accountant yet because I have been stuck in bed with lower back problems. I spent a night in Hospital on morphine over Easter and have been on vallium ever since to relieve the pain. Yes my wife has kicked me out, I am sleeping in the camper trailer. The second hand furniture dealer has come around and taken all our good furniture to sell on consignment, they wouldn’t buy it off us. One car will be repossessed in June, the other in July leaving us with no transport.
All because these gutless trustees think one day I will get my medical back. What a joke.
Dave Harget must he one gutless individual seeing he refuses to pick up the phone, email me or even write to me.
Regardless of the outcome I will be putting myself up for election in November because these Trustees need a kick up the arse for their lack of support for members when they loose their medical. Refusing to communicate in any way in offensive and insulting.
Mark Whitaker
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Just after I posted the above update and after the monthly payment arrived into my bank account I received this email from the so called "[email protected]"
Good afternoon Mark,
The Board has once again considered your claim for the payment of the NCB. The matter was discussed at length and I am writing to inform you that our opinion remains unchanged. Please keep us informed as to any changes relevant to your claim. Regards David Harget.
As they have NEVER informed me what their "Opinion" is, how do I know what to tell them if it changes.
The trustees have an obligation under the rules to inform me as to what they need. This has never been done other than to send me to another Cardiologist whose report they have ignored!
Also, I have not changed the email sent to me by the so called [email protected]
It did not come on a letterhead with a signature! Is this the actions of a Chairman of a $100M+ organisation about a $359000 Capital Claim.
To me it looks like something from someone who likes to have Chairman of the AAPMBF on his resume and has no understanding of Corporate Governance nor his obligations and responsibilities under the Financial Services Act.
* So according the fence sitting of this so called chairman and the other Trustees I will be on the monthly benefits. So far I have had 12 months of 1.5%, which totals 18% of my Capital benefit. I will then be on another 48 months at 1% totaling 66% of my Capital Benefit, all taxed by the way. So what happens after 5 years, since my condition is “Stable” as stated by 3 Cardiologists, what next, do they pay me out the remaining 33%, sorry not in the rules, or do I just go away and loose all future benefits?
I have no idea!
Good afternoon Mark,
The Board has once again considered your claim for the payment of the NCB. The matter was discussed at length and I am writing to inform you that our opinion remains unchanged. Please keep us informed as to any changes relevant to your claim. Regards David Harget.
As they have NEVER informed me what their "Opinion" is, how do I know what to tell them if it changes.
The trustees have an obligation under the rules to inform me as to what they need. This has never been done other than to send me to another Cardiologist whose report they have ignored!
Also, I have not changed the email sent to me by the so called [email protected]
It did not come on a letterhead with a signature! Is this the actions of a Chairman of a $100M+ organisation about a $359000 Capital Claim.
To me it looks like something from someone who likes to have Chairman of the AAPMBF on his resume and has no understanding of Corporate Governance nor his obligations and responsibilities under the Financial Services Act.
* So according the fence sitting of this so called chairman and the other Trustees I will be on the monthly benefits. So far I have had 12 months of 1.5%, which totals 18% of my Capital benefit. I will then be on another 48 months at 1% totaling 66% of my Capital Benefit, all taxed by the way. So what happens after 5 years, since my condition is “Stable” as stated by 3 Cardiologists, what next, do they pay me out the remaining 33%, sorry not in the rules, or do I just go away and loose all future benefits?
I have no idea!
Mark,
Perhaps you need to get off the internet and use the time the monthly income gives to prepare for a life out of the cockpit; be that in the expanding simulator instructing sector or whatever.
You ain't dead like one of my recently departed colleagues, so stop sulking and get on with it.
Sorry to be harsh, but that is life my friend.
Perhaps you need to get off the internet and use the time the monthly income gives to prepare for a life out of the cockpit; be that in the expanding simulator instructing sector or whatever.
You ain't dead like one of my recently departed colleagues, so stop sulking and get on with it.
Sorry to be harsh, but that is life my friend.
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I feel that it is you being a bit harsh Illusion,
I don't see Mark sulking at all, I just see that he is a pissed that the fund is not paying him for a product he purchased and believes that he is entitled to.
Should be of interest, if not concern, to all in the Fund.
Btw, wtf does Mark's Thread/Post have to do with your recently departed colleague.
Mark, I guess when you go public you have to expect some d*ckhead comments.
All the best, hope it works out.
I don't see Mark sulking at all, I just see that he is a pissed that the fund is not paying him for a product he purchased and believes that he is entitled to.
Should be of interest, if not concern, to all in the Fund.
Btw, wtf does Mark's Thread/Post have to do with your recently departed colleague.
Mark, I guess when you go public you have to expect some d*ckhead comments.
All the best, hope it works out.
I don't mean to be harsh but there are three outcomes in this situation:
1. he gets what he wants- and by that time with the reduction in capital payment due the current monthly pays it will not be a lot. he won't be able to work in aviation and will have insufficient funds to retire; or
2. He does not get what he wants and ends up a few years older and not qualified for anything outside of aviation with insufficent funs to retire: or
3. he takes a "punt" and has the surgery and actually regains his class one.
In any case doing nothing in the meantime is mentally, physically and professionally not the best choice. Sitting around the house stewing is not good. In two out of the three cases presented (and I will stand corrected) some sort of education/retraining is a good option in the interim even if it is not ultimately needed.
I am no way connected with the above situation ,
All the best. You will not hear from me again.
1. he gets what he wants- and by that time with the reduction in capital payment due the current monthly pays it will not be a lot. he won't be able to work in aviation and will have insufficient funds to retire; or
2. He does not get what he wants and ends up a few years older and not qualified for anything outside of aviation with insufficent funs to retire: or
3. he takes a "punt" and has the surgery and actually regains his class one.
In any case doing nothing in the meantime is mentally, physically and professionally not the best choice. Sitting around the house stewing is not good. In two out of the three cases presented (and I will stand corrected) some sort of education/retraining is a good option in the interim even if it is not ultimately needed.
I am no way connected with the above situation ,
All the best. You will not hear from me again.
