Jetstar cadets grounded
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This guarantee from OAA means that we could potentially refund to you your training costs should you fail to reach the required standard at any stage during your ab-initio training due to lack of ability.
It only applies up to the ab-inito stage of training.
Regarding "ability", OAA have put candidates thru the 2 day skills assessment process. They have therefore already determined that a candidate has the "ability" to complete the course. If a candidate fails to meet the required standard they will "potentially" identify other issues as the reason for lack of standard. ie: Confidence, Distractions, Commitment, Medical, Blah Blah Blah
Besides the final decision on the SPP is at the discretion of OAA.
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Guys Check this out
Jetstar hissy fit reveals two tier pay scale for new pilots
March 10, 2011 – 4:52 pm, by Ben Sandilands
In an angry response to the earlier posting on Plane Talking Jetstar has revealed plans to put new pilots onto a two tier pay scheme by transferring graduates from its sham New Zealand cadet scheme onto an Australian ‘modern award’.
The Australian and International Pilots Association says this would mean a lower pay scale for pilots doing the same work , as their is already a current EBA covering Jetstar pilots under which it would expect the carrier to employ new hires.
This is what Jetstar says about our earlier report.
This now appears to have been replaced in haste with a plan to employ the pilots in Australia, a move which will however mean that those earnings will be taxed in Australia and attract a superannuation levy.
The Jetstar response continues to insist that this was a New Zealand training scheme, even though the only connection the cadets had with New Zealand was a New Zealand bank account and tax file number that they were flown to New Zealand by Jetstar in order to open and acquire.
One could easily come to the ‘sensational’ conclusion, as the pilots association has, that this is a sham.
Shortly before Jetstar reacted to the story the pilots association released this reaction to the grounding of the cadets.
March 10, 2011 – 4:52 pm, by Ben Sandilands
In an angry response to the earlier posting on Plane Talking Jetstar has revealed plans to put new pilots onto a two tier pay scheme by transferring graduates from its sham New Zealand cadet scheme onto an Australian ‘modern award’.
The Australian and International Pilots Association says this would mean a lower pay scale for pilots doing the same work , as their is already a current EBA covering Jetstar pilots under which it would expect the carrier to employ new hires.
This is what Jetstar says about our earlier report.
Jetstar wishes to respond to the posting dated 10 March relating to our Cadet Pilot Program.
Jetstar stands by its Cadet Pilot Program, which was launched last year, and rejects recent criticism with respect to the employment arrangements of our Cadet Pilots.
Today’s Plane Talking posting takes a grossly sensationalised position.
Jetstar is currently finalising and is merely days away from offering Australian (Commonwealth) contracts for its Cadet Pilots that is in line with the modern award.
For the record, three Jetstar Cadet Pilots, each out of our training program based in New Zealand, have just concluded their line training with Jetstar and have been ‘checked to line’ by our airline, the background and basis for the Plane Talking posting. All three took place in the past six days.
The three are temporarily unable to fly within Australia until the finalisation of an Australian (Commonwealth) employment contract. The matter is likely to be rectified within days, due to a delay in finalising the workplace arrangement.
The putting in place of an Australian employment mechanism – and delays in this process – is the sole reason for this short term delay experienced by our three Cadet Pilots from re-entering our operations.
Contrary to what was stated in the posting, these Cadet Pilots are receiving full remuneration at this time. They will not be out of pocket whilst waiting for their Australian workplace contract to be finalised.
Jetstar will employ these Pilot Cadets under an Australian (Commonwealth) contract that is in line with the modern award.
We wish to make it clear it has always been our intention to have an Australian employment agreement in place for our Cadet Pilots.
Further with respect to clearance for Jetstar Cadet Pilots to fly, this is the responsibility of Jetstar’s Check and Training organisation within the airline (through delegation).
All of our Cadet Pilots are on existing Individual Employment Agreements (IEA) in New Zealand.
But according to the testimony given by Bruce Buchanan, the Jetstar Group CEO, to the Senate inquiry into pilot training and airline safety on February 25, Jetstar’s intention with the NZ scheme was to employ the graduates on a New Zealand award under which he claimed they could earn up to $NZ67,000 a year.Jetstar stands by its Cadet Pilot Program, which was launched last year, and rejects recent criticism with respect to the employment arrangements of our Cadet Pilots.
Today’s Plane Talking posting takes a grossly sensationalised position.
Jetstar is currently finalising and is merely days away from offering Australian (Commonwealth) contracts for its Cadet Pilots that is in line with the modern award.
For the record, three Jetstar Cadet Pilots, each out of our training program based in New Zealand, have just concluded their line training with Jetstar and have been ‘checked to line’ by our airline, the background and basis for the Plane Talking posting. All three took place in the past six days.
The three are temporarily unable to fly within Australia until the finalisation of an Australian (Commonwealth) employment contract. The matter is likely to be rectified within days, due to a delay in finalising the workplace arrangement.
The putting in place of an Australian employment mechanism – and delays in this process – is the sole reason for this short term delay experienced by our three Cadet Pilots from re-entering our operations.
Contrary to what was stated in the posting, these Cadet Pilots are receiving full remuneration at this time. They will not be out of pocket whilst waiting for their Australian workplace contract to be finalised.
Jetstar will employ these Pilot Cadets under an Australian (Commonwealth) contract that is in line with the modern award.
We wish to make it clear it has always been our intention to have an Australian employment agreement in place for our Cadet Pilots.
Further with respect to clearance for Jetstar Cadet Pilots to fly, this is the responsibility of Jetstar’s Check and Training organisation within the airline (through delegation).
All of our Cadet Pilots are on existing Individual Employment Agreements (IEA) in New Zealand.
This now appears to have been replaced in haste with a plan to employ the pilots in Australia, a move which will however mean that those earnings will be taxed in Australia and attract a superannuation levy.
The Jetstar response continues to insist that this was a New Zealand training scheme, even though the only connection the cadets had with New Zealand was a New Zealand bank account and tax file number that they were flown to New Zealand by Jetstar in order to open and acquire.
One could easily come to the ‘sensational’ conclusion, as the pilots association has, that this is a sham.
Shortly before Jetstar reacted to the story the pilots association released this reaction to the grounding of the cadets.
QANTAS MUST COME CLEAN ON CADET SCAM
There are disturbing revelations that the Qantas Group has set up another sham employment scheme to evade the Australian industrial relations system and pay cadet pilots in New Zealand dollars.
A group of Jetstar cadets face an uncertain future after being stood down without pay, pending ‘operational clearance’.
Despite being Australian citizens, when they were first recruited the cadets were asked by the Qantas Group to go to New Zealand for three days of observational flying and to open New Zealand bank accounts.
They then did their endorsement training in the UK and their line training in Australia whilst being paid in New Zealand dollars.
Now that they have completed their training, the cadets have been left to their own devices on a basic living allowance and are awaiting an Australian contract based in Australia.
“The Qantas Group must give these young cadets some assurance of what is in store for them and quickly,” Australian and International Pilots Association Vice President Captain Richard Woodward said.
“The company needs to show faith and reassure these cadets that it intends to stand by the commitments it made.”
“We want them up in the air again as soon as possible, on full pay, under the Australian Jetstar Pilots Agreement.”
Captain Woodward said it was also important the company clarify exactly why it was basing its cadet training in New Zealand yet clearly operating it out of the UK and Australia.
“It’s an absolute disgrace that a company can consistently market itself as the national carrier and then go out of its way to avoid Australian workplace laws by placing its Australian cadets on New Zealand contracts and paying them in New Zealand dollars.
“That includes basic entitlements Australian workers take for granted, like the 9% compulsory superannuation contribution,” Captain Woodward said.
The news about Jetstar training its cadets in New Zealand is only the latest example of the company trying to undercut Australian pilots and avoid Australian workplace and superannuation laws.
Last year Qantas gave its New Zealand subsidiary, Jetconnect responsibility for the majority of all trans-Tasman flights and Mr Paul Daff, Head of Jetconnect, has confirmed in recent court proceedings that an additional 28 flights per week will be transferred from Qantas to Jetconnect in May 2011.
Employment conditions at Jetconnect are inferior, with pilots earning almost one-third less than they do at Qantas.
There are disturbing revelations that the Qantas Group has set up another sham employment scheme to evade the Australian industrial relations system and pay cadet pilots in New Zealand dollars.
A group of Jetstar cadets face an uncertain future after being stood down without pay, pending ‘operational clearance’.
Despite being Australian citizens, when they were first recruited the cadets were asked by the Qantas Group to go to New Zealand for three days of observational flying and to open New Zealand bank accounts.
They then did their endorsement training in the UK and their line training in Australia whilst being paid in New Zealand dollars.
Now that they have completed their training, the cadets have been left to their own devices on a basic living allowance and are awaiting an Australian contract based in Australia.
“The Qantas Group must give these young cadets some assurance of what is in store for them and quickly,” Australian and International Pilots Association Vice President Captain Richard Woodward said.
“The company needs to show faith and reassure these cadets that it intends to stand by the commitments it made.”
“We want them up in the air again as soon as possible, on full pay, under the Australian Jetstar Pilots Agreement.”
Captain Woodward said it was also important the company clarify exactly why it was basing its cadet training in New Zealand yet clearly operating it out of the UK and Australia.
“It’s an absolute disgrace that a company can consistently market itself as the national carrier and then go out of its way to avoid Australian workplace laws by placing its Australian cadets on New Zealand contracts and paying them in New Zealand dollars.
“That includes basic entitlements Australian workers take for granted, like the 9% compulsory superannuation contribution,” Captain Woodward said.
The news about Jetstar training its cadets in New Zealand is only the latest example of the company trying to undercut Australian pilots and avoid Australian workplace and superannuation laws.
Last year Qantas gave its New Zealand subsidiary, Jetconnect responsibility for the majority of all trans-Tasman flights and Mr Paul Daff, Head of Jetconnect, has confirmed in recent court proceedings that an additional 28 flights per week will be transferred from Qantas to Jetconnect in May 2011.
Employment conditions at Jetconnect are inferior, with pilots earning almost one-third less than they do at Qantas.
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Contrary to what was stated in the posting, these Cadet Pilots are receiving full remuneration at this time. They will not be out of pocket whilst waiting for their Australian workplace contract to be finalised.
full remuneration on a contract based on scheduled flight hours equals nil if you don't fly.
Not be out of pocket means they are on overnight allowances and accomodation.
This is Bruce Buchanan trying to backtrack and get out of his Contempt allegations towards the Senate.
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The Kelpie
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I need some help.
My usual legal 'friend' is unavailable and I don't know what an Australian (Commonwealth) Contract is?
I have googled it, but to no avail.
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The Kelpie
ps I understand Jetstar may be trying to learn my identity. Guys you are very cold at the moment!!!
My usual legal 'friend' is unavailable and I don't know what an Australian (Commonwealth) Contract is?
I have googled it, but to no avail.
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The Kelpie
ps I understand Jetstar may be trying to learn my identity. Guys you are very cold at the moment!!!
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Kremin
That is the Modern Air Pilots Award 2010 - the minimum terms and conditions for pilots in Australia. It is the same document that the Bush Pilots are on although there are different salary scales for Aircraft.
I think this is what Jetstar mean but I am not sure as this is not an Australian (Commonwealth) Contract per se.
As I say the Award is the minimum but it is still a lot better than the NZ Cadet Contract. One feature is that it does not recognise 'cadet pilots' you are either a Captain or FO. I bet you it will be 'casual'!!!
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The Kelpie
That is the Modern Air Pilots Award 2010 - the minimum terms and conditions for pilots in Australia. It is the same document that the Bush Pilots are on although there are different salary scales for Aircraft.
I think this is what Jetstar mean but I am not sure as this is not an Australian (Commonwealth) Contract per se.
As I say the Award is the minimum but it is still a lot better than the NZ Cadet Contract. One feature is that it does not recognise 'cadet pilots' you are either a Captain or FO. I bet you it will be 'casual'!!!
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The Kelpie
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Despite me having long given up Oz aviation for good, I must nonetheless
say you do excellent work Kelps. The filth and maggots that is ****star Oz
management deserve the fullest exposure.
All the best to you.
say you do excellent work Kelps. The filth and maggots that is ****star Oz
management deserve the fullest exposure.
All the best to you.
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I always give the 100% effort to my 'work' and hope that I can support 'friends' when possible in the hope they will help me (despite my anonymity - for obvious reasons)
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The Kelpie
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The Kelpie
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From the Crikey Blog.
'A Jetstar cadet training scheme which has been criticized as a sham that evades the costs of complying with Australian industrial laws, the superannuation levy and taxation obligations is in disarray this morning..."
A fantastic summary of the situation.
The part about the lost taxation revenue has to be one of the smartest and fastest ways to get the Pollies backsides into gear to make this 'low act' practice much more difficult, and much less worthwhile from a management bonus driven perspective!
'A Jetstar cadet training scheme which has been criticized as a sham that evades the costs of complying with Australian industrial laws, the superannuation levy and taxation obligations is in disarray this morning..."
A fantastic summary of the situation.
The part about the lost taxation revenue has to be one of the smartest and fastest ways to get the Pollies backsides into gear to make this 'low act' practice much more difficult, and much less worthwhile from a management bonus driven perspective!
Last edited by h.o.t.a.s.; 15th Aug 2016 at 05:49.
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i wonder if the ato and pollies realise that the jetconnect sham is also a means of avoiding super and tax....
there's alot happening at the moment...and scabstar and qf are under alot of pressure about workplace contracts/safety etc...
could we as AUSTRALIAN workers finally be about to have a win??
there's alot happening at the moment...and scabstar and qf are under alot of pressure about workplace contracts/safety etc...
could we as AUSTRALIAN workers finally be about to have a win??
As an interesting aside to the Cadets going on the award, you should have a read of a talk give by Sue Bussell (Qantas IR) at the UNI of Sydney last year.
http://sydney.edu.au/business/__data...ell_190410.pdf
At about page 7 she discuss how Qantas played a roll in keeping the Modern pilot award to an absolute minimum so as to keep Australia competitive with internationals flying in OZ.
My Bolding.
Try not to throw your coffee at the screen.
http://sydney.edu.au/business/__data...ell_190410.pdf
At about page 7 she discuss how Qantas played a roll in keeping the Modern pilot award to an absolute minimum so as to keep Australia competitive with internationals flying in OZ.
The recent review of Modern awards was an opportunity for the distinction between asafety net and conditions bargained in individual enterprises to be tested.
The Qantasgroup played a significant role in the review of the aviation industry awards. Although it might appear that an easy approach for Qantas would have been to stand back from the process because raising the industry standard would impact on our ‘low cost’ competitors more than on Qantas mainline, our view was that the long term competitiveness of the industry in Australia required that aviation industry awards remained as true Industry minima. Otherwise, we would have become potentially less competitive with international
carriers operating to Australia, and we also needed to protect our subsidiaries Jetstar and QantasLink – QantasLink provides services to regional Australia and has some community service obligations. The challenge was significant with some unions taking a very different
approach to the concept of a safety net being a minimum standard. We had to provide comprehensive data and the initial decisions of the Tribunal were then subject to a Ministerial request for review. However in the end, under very difficult circumstances the Tribunal got it right for this industry. There was no evidence of any individual being worse off and the awards provide for a fair minimum standard safety net that is a foundation – not a replacement - for collective bargaining.
In the longer term, the issue with modern awards will be the extent to which unions pursue arbitrated award variations to raise employment conditions outside of the bargaining stream. To the extent this does occur – if it occurs - the more the safety net will circumscribe the real scope for enterprise bargaining and hence the scope to tailor employment conditions to the needs of particular enterprises. If the Hawke/Keating
Labour Government and every Government since then was right – that the move from standard industry wide arbitrated outcomes to bargained enterprise level outcomes provided a key lever for economic reform and growth – then we need to be very careful that the safety net remains just that - an underpinning minima, not a vehicle for establishing new standards and benchmarks.
The Qantasgroup played a significant role in the review of the aviation industry awards. Although it might appear that an easy approach for Qantas would have been to stand back from the process because raising the industry standard would impact on our ‘low cost’ competitors more than on Qantas mainline, our view was that the long term competitiveness of the industry in Australia required that aviation industry awards remained as true Industry minima. Otherwise, we would have become potentially less competitive with international
carriers operating to Australia, and we also needed to protect our subsidiaries Jetstar and QantasLink – QantasLink provides services to regional Australia and has some community service obligations. The challenge was significant with some unions taking a very different
approach to the concept of a safety net being a minimum standard. We had to provide comprehensive data and the initial decisions of the Tribunal were then subject to a Ministerial request for review. However in the end, under very difficult circumstances the Tribunal got it right for this industry. There was no evidence of any individual being worse off and the awards provide for a fair minimum standard safety net that is a foundation – not a replacement - for collective bargaining.
In the longer term, the issue with modern awards will be the extent to which unions pursue arbitrated award variations to raise employment conditions outside of the bargaining stream. To the extent this does occur – if it occurs - the more the safety net will circumscribe the real scope for enterprise bargaining and hence the scope to tailor employment conditions to the needs of particular enterprises. If the Hawke/Keating
Labour Government and every Government since then was right – that the move from standard industry wide arbitrated outcomes to bargained enterprise level outcomes provided a key lever for economic reform and growth – then we need to be very careful that the safety net remains just that - an underpinning minima, not a vehicle for establishing new standards and benchmarks.
Try not to throw your coffee at the screen.
I'm sure there's more pilots than me knowledgable on this but from memory there's a significant difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Deliberately setting up a sham operation to reduce tax implications must be getting perilously close to the law. It would be nice to see some people charged over this.
Mr Kelpie, as you should be known out of respect, thank-you for your work.
Mr Kelpie, as you should be known out of respect, thank-you for your work.
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For the record, three Jetstar Cadet Pilots, each out of our training program based in New Zealand, have just concluded their line training with Jetstar and have been ‘checked to line’ by our airline,
Is this the one who was reportedly involved in the 'very heavy landing' in the Gold Coast a few weeks back? Is this why there are not four cadets checked to line?
Jetstar’s Check and Training organisation (through delegation)
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The Kelpie
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This is getting better by the second....
I feel the Qantas Group management as a whole has just shifted to the defensive, they are being mauled on all sides by their pathetic decisions, and as they are all now hopeless 20's something UNI grads with as much life skills as a mature mosquito, they are about to implode! Thought they were too smart for their own good, and it looks like it will be so!
thanks Kelpie for the updates!
I feel the Qantas Group management as a whole has just shifted to the defensive, they are being mauled on all sides by their pathetic decisions, and as they are all now hopeless 20's something UNI grads with as much life skills as a mature mosquito, they are about to implode! Thought they were too smart for their own good, and it looks like it will be so!
thanks Kelpie for the updates!
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i wonder if jetscab will have to back pay their cadets seeing they'll soon be on the modern award
what the fark are these morons doing......??
i sometimes worry about the state of our industry, but with these complete d1ckheads running scabstar and making an absolute mess in the process our chances of our indusrty returing to it's glory days are in sight......
kelpie, you are a star, and i wouldn't worry about sh1tstars management trying to reveal your identity, between the lot of them they couldn't organise a lovely night in gentlemens establishment let alone anything else!!
what the fark are these morons doing......??
i sometimes worry about the state of our industry, but with these complete d1ckheads running scabstar and making an absolute mess in the process our chances of our indusrty returing to it's glory days are in sight......
kelpie, you are a star, and i wouldn't worry about sh1tstars management trying to reveal your identity, between the lot of them they couldn't organise a lovely night in gentlemens establishment let alone anything else!!
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This is surely the nightmare scenario for you AJ & BB, with literally everything blowing up in your face and a very smart senator with a fine grasp of the nuances leading the Senate inquisition. Will you appear? The good senator has your measure, and your dirty little secret plan.
You boys are so deep in the hole, but yet you still keep digging.
You boys are so deep in the hole, but yet you still keep digging.
