QANTAS AIPA 7.30 report
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Who cares what the public thinks. The public think what the media want them to think. This has been proven for many many years.
What I care for, is what Qantas pilots think. That will be the determining factor. Personally, I have had enough of the lies, deceit and blatant disregard for all of the employees of QF by management who have no idea how to relate to people.
What do we have to lose? If I lose my job, so does the CEO, CFO, CP etc.
ENOUGH of the touchy feely, bring it on!
What I care for, is what Qantas pilots think. That will be the determining factor. Personally, I have had enough of the lies, deceit and blatant disregard for all of the employees of QF by management who have no idea how to relate to people.
What do we have to lose? If I lose my job, so does the CEO, CFO, CP etc.
ENOUGH of the touchy feely, bring it on!
Last edited by What The; 8th Mar 2011 at 11:17.
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7.30 report
Qantas in worst industrial dispute in decades
Reporter: Conor Duffy
Qantas pilots are preparing to take industrial action for the first time in 45 years.
Transcript
LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: 7.30 can reveal that thousands of airline travellers may face disruptions in coming months, with the pilots' union threatening industrial action against Qantas for the first time in 45 years. The union says the fight's over the outsourcing of jobs, but Qantas says it's about pilots demanding a 26 per cent pay rise. Conor Duffy reports.
NATHAN SAFE, QANTAS PILOT: As soon as I could recognise the shape of an aeroplane in the sky, I knew I wanted to be an airline pilot. And I was very lucky at age 20 to become a Qantas pilot. It was probably the happiest day of my life so far and I hope that the saddest day of my life so far isn't the day that I have to leave Qantas.
CONOR DUFFY, REPORTER: With 90 years of tradition and an enviable safety record, Qantas has long been considered the career pinnacle for Australian pilots.
But now its long-haul pilots who fly internationally and on some domestic routes are on the brink of filing for industrial action.
RICHARD WOODWARD, AUST. & INTERNATIONAL PILOTS ASSN: 1966 was the last time that we took industrial action and to push to this point is really, really sad for all of us.
OLIVIA WIRTH, QANTAS SPOKESWOMAN: We remain hopeful that we can continue negotiating with the union rather than them take this very drastic measure to take action against the airline.
CONOR DUFFY: For 28-year-old second officer Nathan Safe, the idea of speaking out against Qantas was once unthinkable.
NATHAN SAFE: I wasn't born the last time Qantas airline pilots struck and in 1989 I was six years old, so it's not something I'm personally familiar with. However, I think we all feel that it's getting to the point where we have to look at going down that path.
CONOR DUFFY: That 1989 strike action by Ansett pilots was one of the most dramatic industrial disputes in the country's history and left thousands of travellers stranded.
The then Hawke Government called in Air Force pilots to help break it and the company eventually prevailed.
JOHN BUCHANAN, ECONOMIST, UNI. OF SYDNEY: That dispute was only ultimately resolved with immense government support for the employers. You'll remember the Defence Department put the Air Force at its disposal.
RICHARD WOODWARD: People actually accused me of being in 1989. Qantas pilots never went on strike in 1989. We were flying all through that. It wasn't anything to do with us. So for us to get to this point shows you how serious we are and how concerned we are about the future of aviation.
CONOR DUFFY: The Qantas pilots say it's fear of losing their jobs that is motivating them today. Qantas set up a company called Jetconnect which employs New Zealand cabin crew and pilots and now operates many of the flights between Sydney and New Zealand. The unions are challenging that arrangement in Fair Work Australia.
NATHAN SAFE: It's difficult to see your career path evaporating day by day and to avoid not getting a very disheartened about all of that.
RICHARD WOODWARD: A young pilot joining today may not have a career in 10 or 15 years time because the companies decide to send those aeroplanes overseas, repaint them or pay 'em 30 or 40 per cent less to do the same job. So we're just trying to hold the line. It's about Australian jobs for Australian pilots flying on an Australian icon.
CONOR DUFFY: Qantas management says Jetconnect has operated more almost 10 years without redundancies. They say this argument is all about pay and accuse the pilots of seeking a pay rise of 26 per cent over three years.
OLIVIA WIRTH: We haven't made a pilot redundant since 1971. During the Global Financial Crisis, when times were tough and we made around 20 per cent cut in management, we didn't make any pilot redundant during this time. We're obviously very committed to providing job security for all our employees, not only our pilots.
CONOR DUFFY: 7.30 can reveal the pilots union's management committee has authorised its President, Barry Jackson, to file an application for protected industrial action with Fair Work Australia. It's expected to be lodged sometime in the next week and pilots will then vote in a secret ballot.
Given the depth of feeling at this 300-strong off-duty pilots' meeting last month, the union leadership believes it'll comfortably attract a majority.
NATHAN SAFE: It's basically coming up to a point where it's almost do or die for us. If we want to stay in the jobs we're in, doing the job we do, a job that we do do very well, then we need to take a stand.
OLIVIA WIRTH: We remain committed to the negotiations. We would ask the union to come back to the table and we remain hopeful.
CONOR DUFFY: Late today, the pilots' union finalised the terms of its application for projected industrial action. While it doesn't include strikes, 7.30 understands it does include stop-work meetings and work-to-rule actions that could delay flights.
RICHARD WOODWARD: We've got no intention of disrupting the travelling public, absolutely none, but we may actually do minor disruptions. If we do that we'll certainly give the public plenty of notice and we'll tell 'em when we're going to do it and why we're going to do it. We'll make sure we explain to everyone.
OLIVIA WIRTH: Obviously any industrial action taken by the union which would impact Qantas international operations would not be good news for the airline or for the passengers. We would be very disappointed if any of these actions impacted on disruption, impacted on the Qantas brand and ultimately impacted on people's intention to travel with Qantas.
CONOR DUFFY: Any further decline in market share would be a massive blow for Qantas international. The last decade has been tough and the national airline's international market share has fallen.
JOHN BUCHANAN: In the markets they served 10 years ago they had around a third, and the Qantas core carrier now is down to 20 per cent, with Jetstar delivering another seven or eight per cent. So, in very tangible terms they just don't have the market share they used to in their traditional routes.
CONOR DUFFY: The negotiating teams for the pilots and Qantas will meet again tomorrow and management will be hoping industrial action can be stopped before the busy Easter period.
Reporter: Conor Duffy
Qantas pilots are preparing to take industrial action for the first time in 45 years.
Transcript
LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: 7.30 can reveal that thousands of airline travellers may face disruptions in coming months, with the pilots' union threatening industrial action against Qantas for the first time in 45 years. The union says the fight's over the outsourcing of jobs, but Qantas says it's about pilots demanding a 26 per cent pay rise. Conor Duffy reports.
NATHAN SAFE, QANTAS PILOT: As soon as I could recognise the shape of an aeroplane in the sky, I knew I wanted to be an airline pilot. And I was very lucky at age 20 to become a Qantas pilot. It was probably the happiest day of my life so far and I hope that the saddest day of my life so far isn't the day that I have to leave Qantas.
CONOR DUFFY, REPORTER: With 90 years of tradition and an enviable safety record, Qantas has long been considered the career pinnacle for Australian pilots.
But now its long-haul pilots who fly internationally and on some domestic routes are on the brink of filing for industrial action.
RICHARD WOODWARD, AUST. & INTERNATIONAL PILOTS ASSN: 1966 was the last time that we took industrial action and to push to this point is really, really sad for all of us.
OLIVIA WIRTH, QANTAS SPOKESWOMAN: We remain hopeful that we can continue negotiating with the union rather than them take this very drastic measure to take action against the airline.
CONOR DUFFY: For 28-year-old second officer Nathan Safe, the idea of speaking out against Qantas was once unthinkable.
NATHAN SAFE: I wasn't born the last time Qantas airline pilots struck and in 1989 I was six years old, so it's not something I'm personally familiar with. However, I think we all feel that it's getting to the point where we have to look at going down that path.
CONOR DUFFY: That 1989 strike action by Ansett pilots was one of the most dramatic industrial disputes in the country's history and left thousands of travellers stranded.
The then Hawke Government called in Air Force pilots to help break it and the company eventually prevailed.
JOHN BUCHANAN, ECONOMIST, UNI. OF SYDNEY: That dispute was only ultimately resolved with immense government support for the employers. You'll remember the Defence Department put the Air Force at its disposal.
RICHARD WOODWARD: People actually accused me of being in 1989. Qantas pilots never went on strike in 1989. We were flying all through that. It wasn't anything to do with us. So for us to get to this point shows you how serious we are and how concerned we are about the future of aviation.
CONOR DUFFY: The Qantas pilots say it's fear of losing their jobs that is motivating them today. Qantas set up a company called Jetconnect which employs New Zealand cabin crew and pilots and now operates many of the flights between Sydney and New Zealand. The unions are challenging that arrangement in Fair Work Australia.
NATHAN SAFE: It's difficult to see your career path evaporating day by day and to avoid not getting a very disheartened about all of that.
RICHARD WOODWARD: A young pilot joining today may not have a career in 10 or 15 years time because the companies decide to send those aeroplanes overseas, repaint them or pay 'em 30 or 40 per cent less to do the same job. So we're just trying to hold the line. It's about Australian jobs for Australian pilots flying on an Australian icon.
CONOR DUFFY: Qantas management says Jetconnect has operated more almost 10 years without redundancies. They say this argument is all about pay and accuse the pilots of seeking a pay rise of 26 per cent over three years.
OLIVIA WIRTH: We haven't made a pilot redundant since 1971. During the Global Financial Crisis, when times were tough and we made around 20 per cent cut in management, we didn't make any pilot redundant during this time. We're obviously very committed to providing job security for all our employees, not only our pilots.
CONOR DUFFY: 7.30 can reveal the pilots union's management committee has authorised its President, Barry Jackson, to file an application for protected industrial action with Fair Work Australia. It's expected to be lodged sometime in the next week and pilots will then vote in a secret ballot.
Given the depth of feeling at this 300-strong off-duty pilots' meeting last month, the union leadership believes it'll comfortably attract a majority.
NATHAN SAFE: It's basically coming up to a point where it's almost do or die for us. If we want to stay in the jobs we're in, doing the job we do, a job that we do do very well, then we need to take a stand.
OLIVIA WIRTH: We remain committed to the negotiations. We would ask the union to come back to the table and we remain hopeful.
CONOR DUFFY: Late today, the pilots' union finalised the terms of its application for projected industrial action. While it doesn't include strikes, 7.30 understands it does include stop-work meetings and work-to-rule actions that could delay flights.
RICHARD WOODWARD: We've got no intention of disrupting the travelling public, absolutely none, but we may actually do minor disruptions. If we do that we'll certainly give the public plenty of notice and we'll tell 'em when we're going to do it and why we're going to do it. We'll make sure we explain to everyone.
OLIVIA WIRTH: Obviously any industrial action taken by the union which would impact Qantas international operations would not be good news for the airline or for the passengers. We would be very disappointed if any of these actions impacted on disruption, impacted on the Qantas brand and ultimately impacted on people's intention to travel with Qantas.
CONOR DUFFY: Any further decline in market share would be a massive blow for Qantas international. The last decade has been tough and the national airline's international market share has fallen.
JOHN BUCHANAN: In the markets they served 10 years ago they had around a third, and the Qantas core carrier now is down to 20 per cent, with Jetstar delivering another seven or eight per cent. So, in very tangible terms they just don't have the market share they used to in their traditional routes.
CONOR DUFFY: The negotiating teams for the pilots and Qantas will meet again tomorrow and management will be hoping industrial action can be stopped before the busy Easter period.
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Who cares what the public thinks. The public think what the media want them to think. This has been proven for many many years.
What do we have to lose? If I lose my job, so does the CEO, CFO, CP etc
be aware of who you are taking on Julia would love a good distraction
Personally,I would prefer that you guys win but you will need public support to stop the government supporting the airline.
Best of luck
Bates Motel is right.
Drop the pay claim completely. I think thats the only way to have the media look at it from the right angle, otherwise they will just go round and round in circles with whether or not the pilots deserve a 26% payrise and the real issue will be lost.
Drop the pay claim completely. I think thats the only way to have the media look at it from the right angle, otherwise they will just go round and round in circles with whether or not the pilots deserve a 26% payrise and the real issue will be lost.
The only reason pilots wernt retrenched during the GFC was because they made us take annual/long service leave. As for the executives for every 4 weeks leave they took they were given half of it back again as a defacto bonus. Hypocrites!
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I agree.
-Drop the pay claim entirely, provided the job security claim is met. (A significant pay cut over those years in real terms, yes, yet what is job security really worth?)
-Drop the payload bands, come up with a fleet pay proposal.
Take away their ammo!!!!!
-Drop the pay claim entirely, provided the job security claim is met. (A significant pay cut over those years in real terms, yes, yet what is job security really worth?)
-Drop the payload bands, come up with a fleet pay proposal.
Take away their ammo!!!!!
Last edited by h.o.t.a.s.; 8th Mar 2011 at 19:36.
Why not use the modern media to get your side across?
T w itter, face book, email, if some one put a story together and you distribute the facts via modern media the public will learn the story WITHOUT interference from the "mainstream" media.
If it's being/been done before it wasn't very effective as I am in a couple of QF pilot address books and haven't heard a razzoo.
Quite frankly, there are not too many that need convincing on pprune, you would be better spending 1 minute forwarding your argument to your address book.
(why can't we use the words t w itter or face book on here?)
T w itter, face book, email, if some one put a story together and you distribute the facts via modern media the public will learn the story WITHOUT interference from the "mainstream" media.
If it's being/been done before it wasn't very effective as I am in a couple of QF pilot address books and haven't heard a razzoo.
Quite frankly, there are not too many that need convincing on pprune, you would be better spending 1 minute forwarding your argument to your address book.
(why can't we use the words t w itter or face book on here?)
If Ms Firth is the best they can do, there is probably not too much to worry about (what's with the hair - is that the latest fashion, or she just couldn't be bothered putting a brush through it?).
Here we have not much more than a gen. me uni. graduate giving a history lesson on QF industrial relations - if it wasn't so arrogant it would be funny, she's been here 5 minutes and will be gone in another 5, while for the majority of pilots it is a life time committment.
PLEASE AIPA use our resources to engage a PR consultant to take Ms Firth to task, how hard could it be? The 26% crap has to be de-bunked if there is to be any hope of getting the media and public on side.
Here we have not much more than a gen. me uni. graduate giving a history lesson on QF industrial relations - if it wasn't so arrogant it would be funny, she's been here 5 minutes and will be gone in another 5, while for the majority of pilots it is a life time committment.
PLEASE AIPA use our resources to engage a PR consultant to take Ms Firth to task, how hard could it be? The 26% crap has to be de-bunked if there is to be any hope of getting the media and public on side.
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So when wirthless says 'we have not made a pilot redundant since 1971'....where are copies of the QF memo's from 09/10 that stated 'unless $8m can be saved, these 87 pilots will be made redundant? WHY HAVEN'T THE MEDIA BEEN MADE AWARE OF THIS!!!!!!
Nathan Safe you must have the patience of an oyster......8 years and still a second officer...And that is supposed to be a career path!!
Don't get me wrong, I would love for Qantas to start moving again, at least then the rest of us can have a chance to get in.
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Drop the pay claim completely. I think thats the only way to have the media look at it from the right angle
Wait til the carbon tax gets a hold on your paypackets. 
I doubt very much whether ATC had public support when the lies spewed forth from Clown Castle in Canberra. This battle will not be fought on public opinion, it will be fought on the bottom line. When share holders start seeing the damage done to that bottom line, then and only then, will your (mis) 'management' come to the table.
P.S. I think some of the public are smart enough to know that a 26% payrise is NOT what this dispute is about.
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Jack agree, but it makes the debate every time from the Rat, so take away their oxygen. Target that issue in national press to highlight the errors of their arguments. Take it head on, make it big, make it loud.
If you cave in, they have their first win.
As an outsider I wish I could see more PR from AIPA.... PLEASE go on the front foot with specialists. If you guys cannot win this one you will never recover.
If it is true that Jstar cadets are grounded stick the knife to AJ and BB while you can because I can see the wirthless spin coming now..." see the system works, we stopped it in its tracks when we were not happy".
Get on the front foot as the informed public will be behind you if you win the hearts and minds and it is the public that will keep the pressure on the pollies.Maybe Senator X should ask the Rat Board ...what the phark is going on in your company that we as legislators have to hold this enquiry?
If you cave in, they have their first win.
As an outsider I wish I could see more PR from AIPA.... PLEASE go on the front foot with specialists. If you guys cannot win this one you will never recover.
If it is true that Jstar cadets are grounded stick the knife to AJ and BB while you can because I can see the wirthless spin coming now..." see the system works, we stopped it in its tracks when we were not happy".
Get on the front foot as the informed public will be behind you if you win the hearts and minds and it is the public that will keep the pressure on the pollies.Maybe Senator X should ask the Rat Board ...what the phark is going on in your company that we as legislators have to hold this enquiry?
Round 1 to Qantas
Method - What Ever It Takes - its all in the book ie Graham Richardson
Push 26% pay rise
Press will run with that
Joe Public will switch off over unreasonable pay demand
Pilots can blab on about real reasons but after 26% is mentioned no one is listening
To regain control you will have to kill the 26% Qantas weapon
Method - What Ever It Takes - its all in the book ie Graham Richardson
Push 26% pay rise
Press will run with that
Joe Public will switch off over unreasonable pay demand
Pilots can blab on about real reasons but after 26% is mentioned no one is listening
To regain control you will have to kill the 26% Qantas weapon