QANTAS AIPA 7.30 report
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Agree that the issue for Qantas ,Qantas Group and all Airline pilots in Oz should be the offshoring of Australian jobs ( rather than asking for job security which will never happen - just look at Telstra or the banks ).That is ,the crewing of VH registered aircraft by pilots of any background living and working overseas and on a 'foreign' contract and then flying into and out of Australia.In the process any expansion of Aussie jobs and future promotions are lost and the downward pressure on pay and conditions intensified ( which seems to be the main intent ).
Also, putting a career PR person not long out of school with no real Airline background on TV to answer serious questions about an Airline and Airline Pilots that have been around for a very long time was simply treating the pilot group with contempt and doesn't do anything for QF's relationship with its drivers.
Also, putting a career PR person not long out of school with no real Airline background on TV to answer serious questions about an Airline and Airline Pilots that have been around for a very long time was simply treating the pilot group with contempt and doesn't do anything for QF's relationship with its drivers.
For the life of me I cannot understand why these Execs constantly want to fight with everyone.
"Ministers love activity Bernard. It's their substitute for achievement."
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unionist1974, there is now a perfect storm brewing with the Jetconnect FWA case, Senate inquiry & the NZ cadets contracts. These are very difficult facts for the company to spin, as they strengthen the unions claim that this is about jobs & safety standards, not money.
I have followed the financial shenanigans in the US very closely, and have seen how the well oiled propaganda machine swings in behind its paymaster, in this case, the financial industry. The lies, spin & bullsh!t is unbelievable considering the fraud, looting & plundering of 99.9% of the US populus that continues to this day.
The media here will be no different. I would expect no support what so ever from the commercial media. No matter how minuscule the claim by the pilots, there will be zero in the way of balanced reporting from the Murdoch papers (hard right wing) or commercial TV. In short, there is virtually zero chance of favourable coverage in the commercial media, of which is the sole media diet for the vast majority of the Australian public.
A little history if I may:
Congressional record, Vol 54, Feb 9, 1917, p. 2947
This is an age old game, why would it be any different now? The airline is the paymaster (advertising).
I have followed the financial shenanigans in the US very closely, and have seen how the well oiled propaganda machine swings in behind its paymaster, in this case, the financial industry. The lies, spin & bullsh!t is unbelievable considering the fraud, looting & plundering of 99.9% of the US populus that continues to this day.
The media here will be no different. I would expect no support what so ever from the commercial media. No matter how minuscule the claim by the pilots, there will be zero in the way of balanced reporting from the Murdoch papers (hard right wing) or commercial TV. In short, there is virtually zero chance of favourable coverage in the commercial media, of which is the sole media diet for the vast majority of the Australian public.
A little history if I may:
“In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, ship building and powder interests and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press in the United States.
“These 12 men worked the problems out by selecting 179 newspapers, and then began, by an elimination process, to retain only those necessary for the purpose of controlling the general policy of the daily press throughout the country. They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. The 25 papers were agreed upon; emissaries were sent to purchase the policy, national and international, of these papers; an agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers.
“These 12 men worked the problems out by selecting 179 newspapers, and then began, by an elimination process, to retain only those necessary for the purpose of controlling the general policy of the daily press throughout the country. They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. The 25 papers were agreed upon; emissaries were sent to purchase the policy, national and international, of these papers; an agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers.
This is an age old game, why would it be any different now? The airline is the paymaster (advertising).
U1974 - it seems obvious that they don't get it.
The 26% is the only thing Joe Public took in, a 26% payrise, wow.
Whether its a fact or not, matters not!
The 26% is the only thing Joe Public took in, a 26% payrise, wow.
Whether its a fact or not, matters not!
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Good post breakfast and while the "perfect storm" you mention might be brewing due to the currency of those 3 matters coinciding with Pilot negotiations, the complexity alone of the issues raised in the 3 matters will not get any air time from any of the mainstream media. The likes of Ben Sandilands might write his regular pieces but industry insiders and genuinely interested parties/individuals will only read that stuff and digest the broader issues.
Trying to explain a JetConnect issue or make traction out of it is nigh on impossible. Unless there are illegalities (which I'm not aware of any) involved then it will be a very difficult sell for the AIPA. It's not impossible if they target one issue (not sure the broad banner of job security or even offshoring is it) but in any negotiation there is always a message that both sides can use to their advantage.
Trying to explain a JetConnect issue or make traction out of it is nigh on impossible. Unless there are illegalities (which I'm not aware of any) involved then it will be a very difficult sell for the AIPA. It's not impossible if they target one issue (not sure the broad banner of job security or even offshoring is it) but in any negotiation there is always a message that both sides can use to their advantage.
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Nathan Safe you must have the patience of an oyster......8 years and still a second officer...And that is supposed to be a career path!!
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It has all been done before! BA/Go years
But how disgusting that someone who a few weeks ago was singing the praise of the companies pilots would stoop so low as to this.
I guess thats her job......I hope she is proud of herself.
I guess thats her job......I hope she is proud of herself.
but you gotta say, these guys at the top don't play for the same team each week, they choose to moonlight with another team with a "shareholder" back line, to ensure the bonus incentive packages. This is not the same team that delivers the product daily, the ops side of the business, the heart of a good airline. Most realists, including shareholders surely must be getting the message, there is something not quite right with QF J* ops staff morale ..... Sadly, I missed the 7.30 report but after reading this thread, it got me thinking, it's just like the BA/Go marriage back in 1998, BAs LCC answer to Easy Jet & Ryan. Result, Easy buys Go a few years later. In fact, at the time Robert Ayling the then CEO of BA, was the driving force behind the setup of Go, and destroying staff morale, Result, later ousted and replaced by Rod Eddington, ex AN.
Sir Rod did a sterling job repairing the poorly tarnished staff morale at BA by seeing Go as "cannibalising the core business," He announced to sell the Go business, which ended swallowed up by the rapidly expanding Easy J via a investment fiance firm. (sound familiar?)
Periodical Publishing Awards - Customer Magazine of the Year 2000
Telegraph Travel Awards - Best Low Cost Airline 2001
Business Traveller Awards - Best Low Cost Airline 2001
The Guardian and Observer Travel Awards - Best Low Cost Airline 2002
Business Superbrand 2002
Sale
After returning a profit within 2 years, the incoming BA chairman Rod Eddington decided that Go had become a liability for BA, since it was cannibalising the airline's core business. It was clear to him that BA's priority had to be in restructuring its own full-service operations. In November 2000, British Airways said that Go “simply does not fit in with our full-service strategy” and that it would sell Go, valuing it at £100 million. In March 2001, British Airways gave private equity firm 3i negotiating rights to buy Go and on June 14th 2001 the deal was sealed. 3i owned 43%, with Go’s Management team, the City and Go people owning the rest; Barbara Cassani said, “Our people deserve the credit for Go’s success and that is why I want them to become co-owners of the airline.” On 16 May 2002, easyJet made an announcement that it was to buy Go for £374 million to expand its own operations. By December 2002, easyJet and Go operated under one Air Operators Certificate (AOC) and in April 2003 the airlines operated as one, fully under the easyJet brand. In November 2003, Barbara Cassani published a book titled - Go, An Airline Adventure.
Telegraph Travel Awards - Best Low Cost Airline 2001
Business Traveller Awards - Best Low Cost Airline 2001
The Guardian and Observer Travel Awards - Best Low Cost Airline 2002
Business Superbrand 2002
Sale
After returning a profit within 2 years, the incoming BA chairman Rod Eddington decided that Go had become a liability for BA, since it was cannibalising the airline's core business. It was clear to him that BA's priority had to be in restructuring its own full-service operations. In November 2000, British Airways said that Go “simply does not fit in with our full-service strategy” and that it would sell Go, valuing it at £100 million. In March 2001, British Airways gave private equity firm 3i negotiating rights to buy Go and on June 14th 2001 the deal was sealed. 3i owned 43%, with Go’s Management team, the City and Go people owning the rest; Barbara Cassani said, “Our people deserve the credit for Go’s success and that is why I want them to become co-owners of the airline.” On 16 May 2002, easyJet made an announcement that it was to buy Go for £374 million to expand its own operations. By December 2002, easyJet and Go operated under one Air Operators Certificate (AOC) and in April 2003 the airlines operated as one, fully under the easyJet brand. In November 2003, Barbara Cassani published a book titled - Go, An Airline Adventure.
Some say, AJ & Co are simply copying the "Ayling management style," Sky Pirates, take the money and run!
When I think about it, we could all learn from the BA/Go marriage, management style, out dated, it has all been done before. Judging by what I have read on here, it's Déjà vu really.
2m.42 secs in on this video is probably why they got Wirth to do the 7.30 report, AJ answered badly for a CEO, in my view. Apologies for the re-post, but I think well worth a look again, I believe there is a lot more support for pilots than some on here believe.
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all my bold...
Last edited by TIMA9X; 9th Mar 2011 at 12:00.
Firstly the board appoints someone who is clearly not up for the job and then he gets on national television and lies. Basically the shareholders get what they deserve.
Clearly JetConnect is an Australian controlled company.It has been proved.
The man is incompetent. He is a liar. He is a liability by any measure.
Clearly JetConnect is an Australian controlled company.It has been proved.
The man is incompetent. He is a liar. He is a liability by any measure.
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It's catching
Qantas workers pay fight
me thinks AJ has some more work to do after reading this.
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only 15 percent. wow.
Just downloaded the 7.30 report, the pilots were not damaged too much, Wirth not convincing at all, I believe she doesn't fit the role The journalist got the facts wrong re the 89 stuff .......etc
me thinks AJ has some more work to do after reading this.
Qantas check-in staff at Sydney Airport have had enough. The 800 workers and their 600 colleagues in Melbourne are preparing to walk off the job in protest over the airline's refusal to grant them a 15 per cent pay rise over three years.
only 15 percent. wow.
Just downloaded the 7.30 report, the pilots were not damaged too much, Wirth not convincing at all, I believe she doesn't fit the role The journalist got the facts wrong re the 89 stuff .......etc
Last edited by TIMA9X; 9th Mar 2011 at 13:45.
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The hero of QF32 was the Airbus. Most drivers worldwide would have returned it to terra firma.
"The most serious near disaster QF has ever faced" was probably the accident in BKK. The real hero of that accident was the golf course. Had it been SYD/HKG/SIN etc it would have been much worse.
"The most serious near disaster QF has ever faced" was probably the accident in BKK. The real hero of that accident was the golf course. Had it been SYD/HKG/SIN etc it would have been much worse.
The 26% is the only thing Joe Public took in
Spoke to my neighbour yesterday who asked did I see the 7:30 Report? He said that many staff (QF Head Office – office employees) were talking about it and don’t believe the 26% increase and that management are all liars however; the thing that bugged plenty of them is the talk about pilots wanting the staff travel benefit improvement. They believe that that is crap.
He said, they said (the other staff) that most thought that pilots always got a higher priority than most but asking these guarantees was wrong. Some were saying, what about cabin crew then what about other people on the ground who work long shifts and don’t see their families on say a Saturday or Sunday morning and the wife (or husband) has to do the sport shuffle?
They said that the major problem with staff travel benefits is the newer category for the new breed of managers, which is just wrong. Followed by the fact that it's harder to get to places these days because of JetStar and they hardly fly anywhere.
So if you multiply a small number in the office talking about the staff travel benefit x 100’s of small groups – the pilots might start to lose some support on the ground as well?
And....
All those staff similarly affected by the "new breed" of managers with unbeatable staff travel category (all agree it's wrong!) can do something about it, just like the pilots are trying to do, when their next EA discussion comes up!
Why should they be annoyed about a group of employees who are prepared to make trade-offs to regain some of the relativity lost through changes to what management always said was "a privelege, not a right". Grow up people.
Why should they be annoyed about a group of employees who are prepared to make trade-offs to regain some of the relativity lost through changes to what management always said was "a privelege, not a right". Grow up people.
It is interesting that both anqrka and titan agree with each other so much .... and joined pprune within a month of each other too.What are the chances of that?....where there is smoke
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NOIP/ozbiggles,
A little precious are we not.
Which part don’t you agree with?
There have been many cases of seriously disabled airliners surviving through the skills and training of non QF pilots. I am not suggesting QF pilots are not well trained or experienced, but MOST other fliers are also.
Its nice to see the back slapping on TV of the crew involved but it is creating a false image that QF pilots are unique.
TID edit
A little precious are we not.
Which part don’t you agree with?
There have been many cases of seriously disabled airliners surviving through the skills and training of non QF pilots. I am not suggesting QF pilots are not well trained or experienced, but MOST other fliers are also.
Its nice to see the back slapping on TV of the crew involved but it is creating a false image that QF pilots are unique.
TID edit
Last edited by Tidbinbilla; 10th Mar 2011 at 01:02. Reason: Subject posts deleted
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Forced to listen to John Laws whilst getting a haircut this morning, he talked about the current problem and gave QF a bit of a shellacking over its past performance. He was in sympathy with the Pilots, and so would be not a bad idea if one of you blokes give him a call, and give him a few home truths, bearing in mind Gillard would rather be on the right side of him, rather than the wrong side, he would/could give the public a bit of insight. Now this would upset Joyce and his cronies more than a little bit, and would probably force one of the bosses out of his office rather than throwing poor little Gen Me to the wolves. Worth trying. (Oh, and call yourself Alan!)
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Anqrka - I am not a pilot but do work for QF. Is every QF pilot's ability head and shoulders above every non QF pilot? No. As a group are they very well skilled? Yes. Did the crew of QF32 do a very good job? You bloody bet they did!! Are QF pilots being poorly treated by management? Yes they are!
Being from Europe you probably don't understand. In Australia we believe in a thing called 'a fair go'. 'A fair go' doesn't involve the management of your company failing to negotiate 'in good faith', decimating your job prospects, removing previously agreed benefits by stealth, not maintaining ones renumeration in regard to the cost of living, or lying to the Government re any of the above.
Please pass on the above to your mate, Titan!
Being from Europe you probably don't understand. In Australia we believe in a thing called 'a fair go'. 'A fair go' doesn't involve the management of your company failing to negotiate 'in good faith', decimating your job prospects, removing previously agreed benefits by stealth, not maintaining ones renumeration in regard to the cost of living, or lying to the Government re any of the above.
Please pass on the above to your mate, Titan!