DJ Turboprops announced in Skywest tie up
Does this help when we are comparing "what they do/did in Europe" with "what we do in Australia"?
Also should add, we have about 20 million people, Europe has about 700 million people.
Quick fag packet calculation would have have the STD version E190 limited to about 90 seats (no baggage) for a 1000 mile operation!
An excellent perspective Icarus.
Now that the initial shock has passed and rationale is restored, the memories of such announcements from XR's corporate house come flooding back, what was it, 4 A320's by November, reality, 6 years on, one bucket of bolts.
This is not going to happen guys, disregard. delete thread.
Now that the initial shock has passed and rationale is restored, the memories of such announcements from XR's corporate house come flooding back, what was it, 4 A320's by November, reality, 6 years on, one bucket of bolts.
This is not going to happen guys, disregard. delete thread.
Q400 won't do 1000nm leg with any sort of payload.
BNE-CNJ (Cloncurry) is 820nm and it can only do it with 74 pax when they are limited to 3kg of checked bags and TEMPO holding.
BNE-CNJ (Cloncurry) is 820nm and it can only do it with 74 pax when they are limited to 3kg of checked bags and TEMPO holding.
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"a venture of this magnitude without even a ready available market is just simply pie in the sky stuff."
I think u missed the point. The first 6 aircraft will be utilised on Virgins already established regional network, with the remainder to tap into new pairings in due course.
"I'm tipping if they attempt to expand into Q-link and Rex's market on the east coast. the're going to get spanked"
I don't know what to say to this, apart from it gave me a good chuckle...
I love how most of you spell doom and gloom for both operators, and bag management for plucking this idea out of thin air. The fact is, a lot of resources are spent behind the scenes on researching the viability of these ventures. And people with far more insight than us make these decisions years in advance. To simply take one press release and plan the downfall of Australias second largest airline(?) and Western Australias longest running airline is laughable. If you guys are so knowledgeable, why aren't you running your own airline???
I think u missed the point. The first 6 aircraft will be utilised on Virgins already established regional network, with the remainder to tap into new pairings in due course.
"I'm tipping if they attempt to expand into Q-link and Rex's market on the east coast. the're going to get spanked"
I don't know what to say to this, apart from it gave me a good chuckle...
I love how most of you spell doom and gloom for both operators, and bag management for plucking this idea out of thin air. The fact is, a lot of resources are spent behind the scenes on researching the viability of these ventures. And people with far more insight than us make these decisions years in advance. To simply take one press release and plan the downfall of Australias second largest airline(?) and Western Australias longest running airline is laughable. If you guys are so knowledgeable, why aren't you running your own airline???
How would the fuel burn per seat of a Q400 compare on a 1000 mile distance compared with an E190 102 seats?
I love how most of you spell doom and gloom for both operators, and bag management for plucking this idea out of thin air. The fact is, a lot of resources are spent behind the scenes on researching the viability of these ventures. And people with far more insight than us make these decisions years in advance. To simply take one press release and plan the downfall of Australias second largest airline(?) and Western Australias longest running airline is laughable. If you guys are so knowledgeable, why aren't you running your own airline???
Just because a company is big or been around a long time doesnt make it invulnerable to bad business decisions or just plain bad luck.
This is no small thing that's been announced here, goodluck to them I say, hope it works for them, will I be putting my money into it, hell no.
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It appears those who say this venture will not work are;
a) Work for REX
b) Did not get a job at Virgin Blue
c) Did not get a job with Skywest
JB and Skywest have done their homework, they know the numbers they need to make this work. Skywest have grown since the Ansett collapse, they are partly owned by a leasing company so the rate they get any aircraft at will be hard to match. If they go with the ATR it will be the deal of the century, ATR want their product in Australia in big numbers. I've had dealings in the past with two regional aircraft manufacture's and the deals they were willing to do for only 3-4 aircraft operating here was amazing.
I've flown many SYD-PMQ/ AY flights in the 170 over the last 2 years and the loads have always been between 90- 100%, so the numbers are there just the wrong type is being used. So once the turboprops arrive these numbers will remain, however the yield will be much better.
a) Work for REX
b) Did not get a job at Virgin Blue
c) Did not get a job with Skywest
JB and Skywest have done their homework, they know the numbers they need to make this work. Skywest have grown since the Ansett collapse, they are partly owned by a leasing company so the rate they get any aircraft at will be hard to match. If they go with the ATR it will be the deal of the century, ATR want their product in Australia in big numbers. I've had dealings in the past with two regional aircraft manufacture's and the deals they were willing to do for only 3-4 aircraft operating here was amazing.
I've flown many SYD-PMQ/ AY flights in the 170 over the last 2 years and the loads have always been between 90- 100%, so the numbers are there just the wrong type is being used. So once the turboprops arrive these numbers will remain, however the yield will be much better.
Where are the current e-jet pilot bases on the East coast?
Xeptu- You may be correct in what your saying if XR were to try to get 18 a/c up and running within 12 months, but I dont think thats their plan. In the Conference call broadcast their ceo said 6-8 by end of financial year 11/12. If they choose the right type and can get access to C & T pilots then there is no reason why that cant be achievable.
Rex will be the big loser out of any route expansion by VB/XR. If you have ever spent time with people living in towns served by a single operator, they will jump at the chance to fly with a competitor that enters their route. There would still be some routes in SE Aust that even a double daily Q400/ATR would be able to do that currently only have SF340's running on them.
Xeptu- You may be correct in what your saying if XR were to try to get 18 a/c up and running within 12 months, but I dont think thats their plan. In the Conference call broadcast their ceo said 6-8 by end of financial year 11/12. If they choose the right type and can get access to C & T pilots then there is no reason why that cant be achievable.
Rex will be the big loser out of any route expansion by VB/XR. If you have ever spent time with people living in towns served by a single operator, they will jump at the chance to fly with a competitor that enters their route. There would still be some routes in SE Aust that even a double daily Q400/ATR would be able to do that currently only have SF340's running on them.
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It's the old story. Pilots in Rex ATM are saying this wont work (I know about a dozen of them) and this is because they are worried. And they should be!
Rex WILL be the losers out of all this. JB knows Qlink and their regional network backwards. Sh$T he helped design it.! He knows where their strengths and weaknesses are and he will exploit them.
Boy did Qantas lose out by skipping him and going to the Leprechaun....
Anyway..
For skywest guys/gals this is good news. More guaranteed work. For Rex pilots. Dust the old Cv off. Someone will get hurt by all this and it wont be Qlink or Virgin(skywest).
Rex WILL be the losers out of all this. JB knows Qlink and their regional network backwards. Sh$T he helped design it.! He knows where their strengths and weaknesses are and he will exploit them.
Boy did Qantas lose out by skipping him and going to the Leprechaun....
Anyway..
For skywest guys/gals this is good news. More guaranteed work. For Rex pilots. Dust the old Cv off. Someone will get hurt by all this and it wont be Qlink or Virgin(skywest).
It's the old story. Pilots in Rex ATM are saying this wont work (I know about a dozen of them) and this is because they are worried. And they should be!
VB/Skywest pilots have the most to lose because if it doesn't work the options are a downgrade.
At the end of the day Rex and QLink pilots have nothing to lose, the routes are profitable so someone will fly them and there will always be work.
On a second note aircraft operating costs come down to many factors, you could have the best aircraft and the worst management and staff and still lose the battle and at the other end the worst aircraft and the best staff/procedures and win, who knows until the end game.
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Whatever the outcome, successful or otherwise, it will only affect XR pilots as they are the ones operating the flights. The agreement has nothing to do with VB pilots.
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Here's a thought, just add another dimension to it.
What will happen to the XR pilot's EBA when they convert to the new fleet type? I'm assuming the new type will initially be replacing the F50's. I agree with sled_driver71 that most likely the drivers for the new type will be the existing F50 pilots, one would hope so anyway. Obviously as/when/if the services expand Skywest will then need to recruit.
IMHO the T&C's for the F50 (as posted here) are what pilots engaged in this sort of operation should be paid in 2011. I don't think they are overpaid, but from what I have seen their level of remuneration appears fair. Probably why most people I talk to say it's a fairly happy camp, and probably why XR enjoy a relatively high retention rate.
So, with a bigger, heavier, faster aircraft.....
What will the T&C's be for the new type?
What will happen to the XR pilot's EBA when they convert to the new fleet type? I'm assuming the new type will initially be replacing the F50's. I agree with sled_driver71 that most likely the drivers for the new type will be the existing F50 pilots, one would hope so anyway. Obviously as/when/if the services expand Skywest will then need to recruit.
IMHO the T&C's for the F50 (as posted here) are what pilots engaged in this sort of operation should be paid in 2011. I don't think they are overpaid, but from what I have seen their level of remuneration appears fair. Probably why most people I talk to say it's a fairly happy camp, and probably why XR enjoy a relatively high retention rate.
So, with a bigger, heavier, faster aircraft.....
What will the T&C's be for the new type?
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Tea & Bikkies says: f
Interesting, from what here it starts with an "A"!
Be interesting to see which it is.....
from what I hear it starts with a Q. Announced, well not yet
Be interesting to see which it is.....
