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DJ Turboprops announced in Skywest tie up

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DJ Turboprops announced in Skywest tie up

Old 23rd Feb 2011, 23:13
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I noticed Toll (Jetcraft) were looking for a new CP a month back. Is Andre retiring or is he taking his ATR CP qualifications elsewhere????
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 23:17
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oh and they are french.... nuff said.
Get over it..! Alba sore
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Old 23rd Feb 2011, 23:29
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Yes Vale the SAAB 2000.

Drop down masks in the cabin allow it to cruise above FL250 in RPT, and achieve that with little effort also. Mighty aeroplane born at the wrong time. Ideal today, but probably with a fleet mix of the drawing board bound SAAB 340C (Standard SAAB 340 airframe with all the 2000 gear and performance), and common crew endorsement.

I know that REX have approached SAAB to look at starting the line again, but as time draws on, it seems this will be very unlikely. Pity!

Welcome back Kitty'. See you're still doing your homework.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 04:19
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Most of the weather is at those levels. ATR/SAAB/Q400 none of them cruise at Braz levels!
Sorry dude but without drop downs, a Braz is limited to 25k. The Q400 gets there faster and goes a lot faster when it gets there.

If V want to compete against the Q400, then they will need Q400's!
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 04:24
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Q400 is faster than 72-500, but my understanding is that some of the ATR's will be -500 and -600. The -600 is a different story performance wise, suppose to have just as good or better performance as a DH4
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 04:41
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If V want to compete against the Q400, then they will need Q400's!
That is assuming that the Q400 operator runs the thing on book power settings, very few if any do, doesn't really say a lot about its efficiency if they have to retard the thing to be efficient.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 04:50
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Q400 is faster than 72-500, but my understanding is that some of the ATR's will be -500 and -600. The -600 is a different story performance wise, suppose to have just as good or better performance as a DH4
New ATR-600 and -500 have the PW127M which has increased power available for take-off and max continuous operation, not for cruise. The ATR 72-600 will have the same cruise performance as the -500 but better hot and high uplift capability and about another 1000ft single engine altitude capability. I can not see how the same aircraft with the same cruise power available would be any faster, the -500 being a 270kt aircraft. The main difference between the -600 and -500 is increased MTOW (23000kg) and MZFW (21000kg), a new electronic "paperless" flight deck and cabin inporvements.

I'm sure if the 72-600 could achieve or exceed Q400 performance ATR would paste it all over their advertising.

Sorry dude but without drop downs, a Braz is limited to 25k.
The braz has drop downs.

That is assuming that the Q400 operator runs the thing on book power settings, very few if any do, doesn't really say a lot about its efficiency if they have to retard the thing to be efficient.
Even at reduced settings they still cruise at 320kts and can high speed climb at 240kts.

Last edited by 43Inches; 24th Feb 2011 at 05:05.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 04:54
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Does anyone know whether the ATR suffers from the reduced speed of 245 below 8000ft?
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 05:31
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Remember Virgin will still have the 190's for use on the longer sectors to go against the Q400. The ATR will be used on sectors up to 250 nm, were the the time difference between it's TAS of 270 kts and the Q400 of 300- 320 kts will be sweet FA however the fuel burn will be less on the ATR.

Latest from Flightglobal (my bolding);

Virgin Blue expects to take delivery of its new ATR72 turboprops from May, with the -500 variant first to join the fleet.

The carrier will have four of the type by end-July. It announced earlier today an order for up to 18 ATR72s, comprising both the -500 and -600 variants.

"We plan to have at least eight - at least eight - within the next 16 months," says chief executive John Borghetti.

ATR72-600 variants will replace the -500s from next February, he adds, declining to specify why the replacement will occur.It is not clear yet how many of the 18 aircraft are firm orders, and if future deliveries beyond next year will only be for the -600 variant.

"The ATR will form the foundation of our regional network plans, with the first six ATRs replacing our current Embraer E170 fleet and the additional aircraft flying to new regional destinations," Borghetti says.

Virgin Blue's seating configuration has not been announced but the -500 typically seats 68-72 passengers and the -600 up to 74 passengers.

The airline will wet-lease the aircraft from West Australia operator SkyWest under an agreement announced last month.

Skywest in turn will lease the aircraft from leasing company Avation with an initial term of ten years.

"The ATR is the best aircraft to operate on regional routes throughout Australia," Borghetti says. He adds that it burns one-third less fuel than the E170 and 20% to 30% less than its equivalent competitor, a statement likely in reference to the Bombardier Dash 8-400 aircraft that QantasLink operates on its regional routes.

"Not only is it compelling from an economics point of view, it's compelling from a customer perspective," Borghetti says. "It has a wider aisle and wider cabin than other aircraft we were looking at."

The carrier last August announced it was removing its six E170s as the aircraft was not a right fit for its network. It expects to make announcements in the near future about the E170 fleet's removal.

As most thought the -500 is only a stop-gap aircraft until the -600 is ready. Based on what they say above the first 4 aircraft will be in place by the time the last 170 leaves (from what I've been told). It would be mean as each of the new 190's (2 more to come) and the ATR's arrive another 170 will be removed ie 1 for 1 replacement.

Last edited by GAFA; 24th Feb 2011 at 05:53.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 09:28
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E-170 to ATR transition

Will be interesting too watch how the ATR transitions into the current E-170 flying. I wonder if it will mean a strait transition from E-170 to ATR or if some difficult decisions / announcments will be made along the way.

Time will tell and with the DJ Half Yearly materials saying that 3 x 170 will be exited before the end of this FY, we don't have long to wait.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 23:34
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Have no idea myself what their process is but if you look up the Skywest threads you can work out which ppruners work there and they may be able to help.

The obvious ones would be:

XRlent100
XRlent320

Other than these two I"m not sure. But they might be able to point you in the right direction.
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Old 24th Feb 2011, 23:46
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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From a pilots perspective I know which I would rather fly. The ATR will have available power of 5,500 SHP compared to 10,000 SHP on the Q400.

From a numbers perspective, the Q has a greater payload and with the flexibility to fly slower and burn less fuel or push out to a fairly useful TAS, I am scratching my head over this decision.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 00:27
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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Will be interesting too watch how the ATR transitions into the current E-170 flying. I wonder if it will mean a strait transition from E-170 to ATR or if some difficult decisions / announcments will be made along the way.

Time will tell and with the DJ Half Yearly materials saying that 3 x 170 will be exited before the end of this FY, we don't have long to wait.
With 4 ATR`s by July i`d hazard a guess they`ll be replacing some of the E170 shorter hops on a one-for-one basis. Syd-Cbr, Syd-Ay, Syd-Pmq etc. Once the E170`s are all gone then the longer, thinner routes eg. Syd-Rk, Syd-Mk etc will go to the E190`s and most regional routes ex. Syd, Mel and Bne will be the realm of the ATR. Looks like Qlink and Rex may have a little more competition to their better regional ports.

Did somebody mention gate issues at Sydney? It`s not going to get any better is it?
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 04:36
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Did somebody mention gate issues at Sydney? It`s not going to get any better is it?
The issue into Sydney is more about slots than gates. Aeropelican was claiming last year that there was no regional slots available into Sydney except for between 11am and 3pm. QLink and Rex will not be challenged in NSW unless you can get the commuter slots.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 11:55
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Word is starting 10 march new routes including syd-rok then rok-tsv and
Tsv-cns....i sense competition with qlink here too
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 13:13
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HappyBandit,

Virgin have been operating those routes in E170 for the last 2+ years.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 21:01
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Question

Ah there you go!!! Refueller was telling me this and seemed excited about this news....wonder why he mentioned the date???
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 21:22
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Qlink must be smiling from ear to ear.

The ATR has 1 tonne less payload than a Q400.
Carries 1 tonne less fuel at max payload.
And does all this at a conservative 60 knots slower.

I can see some fun times ahead in the pilot briefing room if they are supposed to take over from the E170.

Edited to replace "usefull load" with "payload"

Last edited by Spinnerhead; 26th Feb 2011 at 04:10.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 21:48
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Qlink must be smiling from ear to ear.
ATR much better dispatch reliability.
Fuel burn unmatched per seat/km.
Less than 270nm, will not be much different time wise.
Qlink don't operate flatout as trying to extend engine life, and with the gear issues, groundings, the choice for the short routes is simple.

CBR-SYD is perfect.

Have heard the jet vs props argument for passengers and have never found a booking website that gives you that choice. No 1 is price No2 is timing and that is it.
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Old 25th Feb 2011, 23:48
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#3 is on carriage
#4 is frequent flyer membership and loyalty points.

Passengers don't normally check aircraft type. The average punter would not have a clue about the difference between an ATR / Dash 8 or an E170 for that matter.
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