Merged: Senate Inquiry
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Frank, superb post and absolutely accurate.
* The Director will hang around for a little longer, especially while The Board are in place, better for The Director to cop the heat than The Minister ( thats why The Board are there).
* The Deputy Director ?? Oh dear, who know's on that score. But he too is likely to stay in place as he will wear the lynching if any of the new regs and implementation processes turn to custard.
* The Associate Director -Bingo. You nailed it Frank, he is your 'Director in waiting'. Aviation and witchcraft voodoo mix so well don't you think ??
* HR ?? You mean the people responsible in the majority of organisations for killing off equity, fairness and people's rights ? They too grow from strength to strength in their eyes. More like gutless toads hiding under senior managements skirts.
* Advisory roles !! Oh yes, you always need an advisor/consultant/lapdog/former mate/lobbyist to come back on mega dollars to do nothing more than become even more rich at the taxpayers expense. It is an old rort that dates back thousands of years, this will never change.
As for the fantasy of a royal commission, keep dreaming folks. You have as much chance of that as you do of proving that Simon Overland has been a naughty boy......I would suggest that all of what is taking place will be swept under a giant section of carpet, and in around 5 - 7 years time the whole cycle will start again.
Senator Xenaphon has simply wet our appetite and teased us, all for nought.
P.S Frank, what are the odds you are accepting mate ? I will throw in $500.00 at let's say 90:1 that nobody will get so much as a slap on the wrist.
* The Director will hang around for a little longer, especially while The Board are in place, better for The Director to cop the heat than The Minister ( thats why The Board are there).
* The Deputy Director ?? Oh dear, who know's on that score. But he too is likely to stay in place as he will wear the lynching if any of the new regs and implementation processes turn to custard.
* The Associate Director -Bingo. You nailed it Frank, he is your 'Director in waiting'. Aviation and witchcraft voodoo mix so well don't you think ??
* HR ?? You mean the people responsible in the majority of organisations for killing off equity, fairness and people's rights ? They too grow from strength to strength in their eyes. More like gutless toads hiding under senior managements skirts.
* Advisory roles !! Oh yes, you always need an advisor/consultant/lapdog/former mate/lobbyist to come back on mega dollars to do nothing more than become even more rich at the taxpayers expense. It is an old rort that dates back thousands of years, this will never change.
As for the fantasy of a royal commission, keep dreaming folks. You have as much chance of that as you do of proving that Simon Overland has been a naughty boy......I would suggest that all of what is taking place will be swept under a giant section of carpet, and in around 5 - 7 years time the whole cycle will start again.
Senator Xenaphon has simply wet our appetite and teased us, all for nought.
P.S Frank, what are the odds you are accepting mate ? I will throw in $500.00 at let's say 90:1 that nobody will get so much as a slap on the wrist.
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We'd all be rich if someone would take that on and I doubt it will take 5-7 years for the cycle to repeat itself.
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CASA Senate Hearing
CASA Senate Hearing:
Maybe we should do some more soul searching Frank. It was cold today and I looked at the 1995 hearings summary. I had only just begun an involvement in the industry in 1994
Maybe the Senate should look at the findings and ask CASA as to the actual progress - 2011 sounds just the same.
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committe...1995_PP480.pdf
Part of the summary is as follows:
This report is a first report of what has been the most comprehensive inquiry conducted by the committee in the 37th Parliament.
The next report will cover unfinished matters including flying training, sports aviation and ultra lights, Section 20A of the Civil Aviation Act 1988 and the impact of government charges on air safety.
The inquiry has been characterised by personality conflict, unsubstantiated allegations, a venom and viciousness not experienced by committee members in previous inquiries.
The catalyst for the inquiry was the report from the Bureau of Air Safety investigation on the Monarch Airlines crash in June 1993. Since then the Civil
Aviation Authority, its successor the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and air safety have been the subject of constant media attention.
The period of the inquiry saw significant changes to air safety regulation in Australia. Foremost was the decision to establish a new authority, the Civil
Aviation Safety Authority. The committee examined its enabling legislation and made several recommendations to improve the quality of the legislation
which were accepted by the government.
The report reveals a regulator at war with itself and under constant attack from vested interests within the general aviation and commuter industry.
Ensuring safe air travel must be the first priority of all participants in the industry as well as the regulator. This will require a major change of attitude
and culture by many in the industry.
Conduct of the inquiry and preparation of this report would not have been possible without the consistent support of my committee colleagues Stewart McArthur, Deputy Chair, Gavan O'Connor and John Sharp.
Other committee members participated from time to time despite their workloads.
I thank each of them. I thank also all those who made submissions, who attended public hearings and responded to our requests for additional information.
The committee made heavy demands on CAA and CASA often at short notice. We appreciate their efforts and the time they gave to committee requests.
The Bureau of Transport and Communications Economics assisted the committee again. We thank them for the advance copy of their study on general aviation.
Similarly the Department of the Parliamentary Library provided valuable assistance to the committee.
I especially thank Denis James for his support in the analysis of statistical and economic/financial data relevant to aviation.
The committee expresses special appreciation and thanks to our advisers Trevor Thomas and Robert McBride, committee secretary Malcolm Aldons and
committee officer June Murphy of their hard work and support throughout the inquiry.
Much of this report deals with the Civil Aviation Authority. However the committee stresses that the Civil Aviation Safety Authority should not be
judged by the performance of its predecessor.
The committee's recommendations are constructive and are intended to make the Civil Aviation Safety Authority a more effective regulator.
The committee expects industry, trade unions and others to be similarly supportive of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
The safety of the traveling public demands no less.
PETER MORRIS
Chairman
1 December 1995
Maybe we should do some more soul searching Frank. It was cold today and I looked at the 1995 hearings summary. I had only just begun an involvement in the industry in 1994
Maybe the Senate should look at the findings and ask CASA as to the actual progress - 2011 sounds just the same.
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committe...1995_PP480.pdf
Part of the summary is as follows:
This report is a first report of what has been the most comprehensive inquiry conducted by the committee in the 37th Parliament.
The next report will cover unfinished matters including flying training, sports aviation and ultra lights, Section 20A of the Civil Aviation Act 1988 and the impact of government charges on air safety.
The inquiry has been characterised by personality conflict, unsubstantiated allegations, a venom and viciousness not experienced by committee members in previous inquiries.
The catalyst for the inquiry was the report from the Bureau of Air Safety investigation on the Monarch Airlines crash in June 1993. Since then the Civil
Aviation Authority, its successor the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and air safety have been the subject of constant media attention.
The period of the inquiry saw significant changes to air safety regulation in Australia. Foremost was the decision to establish a new authority, the Civil
Aviation Safety Authority. The committee examined its enabling legislation and made several recommendations to improve the quality of the legislation
which were accepted by the government.
The report reveals a regulator at war with itself and under constant attack from vested interests within the general aviation and commuter industry.
Ensuring safe air travel must be the first priority of all participants in the industry as well as the regulator. This will require a major change of attitude
and culture by many in the industry.
Conduct of the inquiry and preparation of this report would not have been possible without the consistent support of my committee colleagues Stewart McArthur, Deputy Chair, Gavan O'Connor and John Sharp.
Other committee members participated from time to time despite their workloads.
I thank each of them. I thank also all those who made submissions, who attended public hearings and responded to our requests for additional information.
The committee made heavy demands on CAA and CASA often at short notice. We appreciate their efforts and the time they gave to committee requests.
The Bureau of Transport and Communications Economics assisted the committee again. We thank them for the advance copy of their study on general aviation.
Similarly the Department of the Parliamentary Library provided valuable assistance to the committee.
I especially thank Denis James for his support in the analysis of statistical and economic/financial data relevant to aviation.
The committee expresses special appreciation and thanks to our advisers Trevor Thomas and Robert McBride, committee secretary Malcolm Aldons and
committee officer June Murphy of their hard work and support throughout the inquiry.
Much of this report deals with the Civil Aviation Authority. However the committee stresses that the Civil Aviation Safety Authority should not be
judged by the performance of its predecessor.
The committee's recommendations are constructive and are intended to make the Civil Aviation Safety Authority a more effective regulator.
The committee expects industry, trade unions and others to be similarly supportive of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
The safety of the traveling public demands no less.
PETER MORRIS
Chairman
1 December 1995
Last edited by Up-into-the-air; 8th Jun 2011 at 07:44. Reason: continuity
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the committee stresses that the Civil Aviation Safety Authority should not be judged by the performance of its predecessor.
The inquiry has been characterised by personality conflict, unsubstantiated allegations, a venom and viciousness not experienced by committee members in previous inquiries
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Up-into-the-air, Inciteful report albeit a somehwat repititious and monotenous theme we would all agree ?
Inquiries after Monarch, inquiries after Lockhart, inquiries after reports of ludicrous right seat pilot training, yet all for nothing.....The next inquiry will no doubt be after one of Australia's 'larger' operators spear one into a mountain or a hill (tick tock tick tock), but thats ok - it will create plenty of work for government whips, politicians, retired judges, bored senators and the list goes on. This inquiry will be relegated to the forgotten pages of Pprune in no time, and so the cycle goes.
Of particular humour were the below comments:
It would appear that successive managers at CASA and Government spin doctors accept this as the norm, especially when you travel back in history.
Why knock me over with a feather, never ?? It's what they do best !
Ha ha ha, now that is funny. Another waste of taxpayer funds, but hey, that's what they do best !
Inquiries after Monarch, inquiries after Lockhart, inquiries after reports of ludicrous right seat pilot training, yet all for nothing.....The next inquiry will no doubt be after one of Australia's 'larger' operators spear one into a mountain or a hill (tick tock tick tock), but thats ok - it will create plenty of work for government whips, politicians, retired judges, bored senators and the list goes on. This inquiry will be relegated to the forgotten pages of Pprune in no time, and so the cycle goes.
Of particular humour were the below comments:
The inquiry has been characterised by personality conflict, unsubstantiated allegations, a venom and viciousness not experienced by committee members in previous inquiries.
It would appear that successive managers at CASA and Government spin doctors accept this as the norm, especially when you travel back in history.
The report reveals a regulator at war with itself and under constant attack from vested interests within the general aviation and commuter industry.
The committee's recommendations are constructive and are intended to make the Civil Aviation Safety Authority a more effective regulator
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If it wasn't so sad
I would be tempted write a dog race for Frank (AKA Voltaire), it could be fun, but; where's the inspiration.
Part 66, part 91, Polarair, the 'Ethics' committee, Qantas, Jetstar, spin, bull-dust, half arsed self serving pollies, and a confused, frightened, crippled industry. Arggh ! where's the fun?.
It's all a bit like the young fellah's brought up on bad beer, they drink it because they know no better.
I say SHAME on CASA, SHAME on the '(in) vested interests' and SHAME on the shareholders, stakeholders and all the folks who can see no further than their own rice bowl.
The whole thing just makes me despair (a little bit) for this country and the future for the next generation of the mad buggers who can't get a real job and choose to fly aircraft as a way of life.
Selah.
Part 66, part 91, Polarair, the 'Ethics' committee, Qantas, Jetstar, spin, bull-dust, half arsed self serving pollies, and a confused, frightened, crippled industry. Arggh ! where's the fun?.
It's all a bit like the young fellah's brought up on bad beer, they drink it because they know no better.
I say SHAME on CASA, SHAME on the '(in) vested interests' and SHAME on the shareholders, stakeholders and all the folks who can see no further than their own rice bowl.
The whole thing just makes me despair (a little bit) for this country and the future for the next generation of the mad buggers who can't get a real job and choose to fly aircraft as a way of life.
Selah.
Confirm L&F's post, go to item 9. Placing of business in the Dynamic red
:
Dynamic Red - Wednesday, 15 June 2011
Wonder if they have obtained more evidence?
cheers
:Dynamic Red - Wednesday, 15 June 2011
Wonder if they have obtained more evidence?
cheers
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CASA Senate Hearing - 2011
It is worth while reading some of the very erudite submissions from the industry to the 2011 enquiry. The theme through these is one of an out of control regulator. Another submission about how Lockhart River was handled by Shane Urquart is very revealing. Keep the good work going
All the submissions can be read at:
Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committees: Rural Affairs and Transport Committee: Pilot training and airline safety including consideration of the Transport Safety Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports) Bill 2010: Submissions Received
Anonymous submissions can be made as well - This is your opportunity, as it shows the depth to which the regulator [CASA] is not properly regulating - remember the new regs are much more punitive than we have ever seen before.
Safety, proper reporting of problems and fining people do not work, but result in matters that should be reported being at best "buried" without the problem being resolved.
The matter of there not being appropriate rigor in the system looms large.
All the submissions can be read at:
Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committees: Rural Affairs and Transport Committee: Pilot training and airline safety including consideration of the Transport Safety Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports) Bill 2010: Submissions Received
Anonymous submissions can be made as well - This is your opportunity, as it shows the depth to which the regulator [CASA] is not properly regulating - remember the new regs are much more punitive than we have ever seen before.
Safety, proper reporting of problems and fining people do not work, but result in matters that should be reported being at best "buried" without the problem being resolved.
The matter of there not being appropriate rigor in the system looms large.
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CASA Senate Hearing - 2011
My understanding is that Senator Heffernan, Xen and Nash would like to see more information.
They appear to recognise that CASA are at best misleading them in their answers.
This was certainly evident by Sen Heffs refusal on 27th May to put questions on notice, but rather insisting on CASA giving answers on the spot.
They appear to recognise that CASA are at best misleading them in their answers.
This was certainly evident by Sen Heffs refusal on 27th May to put questions on notice, but rather insisting on CASA giving answers on the spot.
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Uita,
I agree with your sentiments in regards to the good Senators, especially Senator X who I think (when you read all the Inquiry Hansards) has been gunning for CASA the whole time!
Not sure if they are looking at new information though. I believe they're probably collating all the info they currently have and then deciding how best to present and recommend to the Senate.
cheers
I agree with your sentiments in regards to the good Senators, especially Senator X who I think (when you read all the Inquiry Hansards) has been gunning for CASA the whole time!
Not sure if they are looking at new information though. I believe they're probably collating all the info they currently have and then deciding how best to present and recommend to the Senate.
cheers
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By the way if you look at the Senate Estimates committee on the 26th May about page 74 onwards you'll get a good example of Senator Bill and Senator X tag teaming CASA and the ATSB!
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/s65.pdf
Shows that they are on to them.
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/s65.pdf
Shows that they are on to them.
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That will remain to be seen.
I would consider several matters, some, in my opinion, criminal that need further investigation. One of note was a late matter with regard to a conflict of interest that would appear to clearly pass any basic test for public examination. Another is a small matter of The Director of Aviation signing "instruments" that put Australian parachuting in a situation of unknowingly being involved in other illegal matters for a considerable time. This alone could, and probably will, be used as a test case against CASA for insurance claims which will impact on the Australian taxpayer.
I also believe there are a series of accustaions made here on PPRune that to date have not been addressed, and never will if CASA get their way.
I would consider several matters, some, in my opinion, criminal that need further investigation. One of note was a late matter with regard to a conflict of interest that would appear to clearly pass any basic test for public examination. Another is a small matter of The Director of Aviation signing "instruments" that put Australian parachuting in a situation of unknowingly being involved in other illegal matters for a considerable time. This alone could, and probably will, be used as a test case against CASA for insurance claims which will impact on the Australian taxpayer.
I also believe there are a series of accustaions made here on PPRune that to date have not been addressed, and never will if CASA get their way.
Well regardless of the timing, if you have information which you believe should be considered, send it on to the Senators or request to speak to them 'off the record' in the first instance. Now is the time to reveal all!!
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So Frank are you saying that the good Senators are bogged down with the detail, or do they simply find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place!
Personally I feel Senator X is on the money (in regards to CASA), he also finds himself in a perfect situation as he doesn't have a political agenda to follow. He just needs to believe in reform of CASA (i.e. get rid of them and start again!).
As can be seen by the number of Inquiries he has instigated and been involved in, he is a go getter with a lot of moral fibre (some of which we may not agree with). So lets wind him up and let him go!
Personally I feel Senator X is on the money (in regards to CASA), he also finds himself in a perfect situation as he doesn't have a political agenda to follow. He just needs to believe in reform of CASA (i.e. get rid of them and start again!).
As can be seen by the number of Inquiries he has instigated and been involved in, he is a go getter with a lot of moral fibre (some of which we may not agree with). So lets wind him up and let him go!
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I was referring to post #1144 when stating "that remains to be seen". A case of post timing by the looks of it.
But no, I believe the good Senators are on the money and there is late material which I have seen, and I understand, has been passed on to them that they may be interested in investigating. I'm unssure whether they will take on the "CASAweary" claims unless he presents them himself. They should be read if only to give CASA the opportunity to deny the accusations.
The rug needs pulling out from under CASA and like you suggest start again.
It should take less than 23 years to complete and promulgate everything seeing as they have done this much work to date.
But no, I believe the good Senators are on the money and there is late material which I have seen, and I understand, has been passed on to them that they may be interested in investigating. I'm unssure whether they will take on the "CASAweary" claims unless he presents them himself. They should be read if only to give CASA the opportunity to deny the accusations.
The rug needs pulling out from under CASA and like you suggest start again.
It should take less than 23 years to complete and promulgate everything seeing as they have done this much work to date.
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Frank,
I admire the passion and commitment. But CASA is too large a beast to be slayed by Heff and Xen. They are on an admirable crusade, but it is too big a job for even these two to pull off. I think most people would like to see CASA brought to account for decades of manfeasance but it is just a fantasy to expect a couple of senators to achieve the unimaginable. Forget the Skull for a moment, peer under the veneer and look at the long termers who have integrated themselves into every breathing decision that takes place within CASA. People with 7, 10, 20 years of experience in working the system. You don't stay in the game that long without knowing how to play everyone for a fool - the airlines, the government, the good senators. None are a match for a well rehearsed and well versed CASA. They are the ever annoying haemerroid, and although the senators may think they are the ointment, they sadly are not.
Next board appointment prediction - Simon Overland.
I admire the passion and commitment. But CASA is too large a beast to be slayed by Heff and Xen. They are on an admirable crusade, but it is too big a job for even these two to pull off. I think most people would like to see CASA brought to account for decades of manfeasance but it is just a fantasy to expect a couple of senators to achieve the unimaginable. Forget the Skull for a moment, peer under the veneer and look at the long termers who have integrated themselves into every breathing decision that takes place within CASA. People with 7, 10, 20 years of experience in working the system. You don't stay in the game that long without knowing how to play everyone for a fool - the airlines, the government, the good senators. None are a match for a well rehearsed and well versed CASA. They are the ever annoying haemerroid, and although the senators may think they are the ointment, they sadly are not.
Next board appointment prediction - Simon Overland.
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Talking of the CASA Board, other than get free lunch and pretend to report to the minister, what else do they do? Nobody hears about them.
The first thing that strikes me with Overland is he may be seen to be damaged goods, but given consideration, he probably passes every test. Right now he would make a better Prime minister.
The first thing that strikes me with Overland is he may be seen to be damaged goods, but given consideration, he probably passes every test. Right now he would make a better Prime minister.