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Krusty
There is a Rumour that they will still turn up. Total Rumour but it seems they were a bit shy and did not want to look the pilots that were going to watch in the eye!!
All a ploy so you guys don't bother turning up?
There is a Rumour that they will still turn up. Total Rumour but it seems they were a bit shy and did not want to look the pilots that were going to watch in the eye!!
All a ploy so you guys don't bother turning up?
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Ben, your on the money again my friend!!!
Qantas and Jetstar no shows before Senate today
March 18, 2011 – 7:45 am, by Ben Sandilands
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce and Jetstar Group CEO Bruce Buchanan are no shows at today’s public hearing by the Senate committee inquiring into pilot training and airline safety in Australia.
However while their attendance had been widely anticipated, and indeed requested, they were never confirmed as attending today to answer further questions arising from their previous testimony on February 25.
Both men are very busy, and certainly too busy today for the Senate. Which will just have to wait.
But the inquiry, chaired by Senator Bill Heffernan, and instigated by Sentator Nick Xenophon, has produced some astonishing revelations to date, including a series of ‘stick shaker’ events on Qantaslink turbo props, the very ones the good senators often fly on.
It has also heard the CEO of CASA, John McCormick, and the chief commissioner of the ATSB, Martin Dolan, flatly contradict the Qantas submission on the causes of the near disaster with a Jetstar A320 attempting to land in fog at Tullamarine on July 27, 2007,* and it has heard Joyce rebuffed trying to reinvent history over the reasons for the CASA inquiry into the incident.
It will hear from McCormick and Dolan again today.
And it will hear from the pilots, or at least the major union, when the Australian and International Pilots Association, returns to the table, fuming, one suspects over the testimony on the Jetstar Cadet Scheme/sham/whatever, that Buchanan gave on February 25 because this seeming attempt to subvert Australian superannuation levies and industrial awards or agreements by paying Australian workers NZ money. And not very much of it either.
That Cadet Scheme now appears to have morphed into something else. Buchanan’s commentary on this is apparently eagerly awaited, and no doubt both he and Joyce will grace the inquiry with their attendance in due course, when it suits them of course.
Also rocking up to the table today is Virgin Blue CEO John Borghetti, who it is expected will take the inquiry through the two pages A4 sized submission his company made to the inquiry.* The committee has provided at least 90 minutes to discuss the two pages with Borghetti, which should be an interesting if not searching exercise.
Borghetti was unable to attend the February 25 hearings because he was in Abu Dhabi stitching up his former employer Qantas with a wickedly clever alliance with Etihad.
He has a fantastic opportunity this morning to sell the merits of his E-jet flights to Canberra to the good senators over those clunky buzzy stick shaking Qantaslink prop jets.
March 18, 2011 – 7:45 am, by Ben Sandilands
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce and Jetstar Group CEO Bruce Buchanan are no shows at today’s public hearing by the Senate committee inquiring into pilot training and airline safety in Australia.
However while their attendance had been widely anticipated, and indeed requested, they were never confirmed as attending today to answer further questions arising from their previous testimony on February 25.
Both men are very busy, and certainly too busy today for the Senate. Which will just have to wait.
But the inquiry, chaired by Senator Bill Heffernan, and instigated by Sentator Nick Xenophon, has produced some astonishing revelations to date, including a series of ‘stick shaker’ events on Qantaslink turbo props, the very ones the good senators often fly on.
It has also heard the CEO of CASA, John McCormick, and the chief commissioner of the ATSB, Martin Dolan, flatly contradict the Qantas submission on the causes of the near disaster with a Jetstar A320 attempting to land in fog at Tullamarine on July 27, 2007,* and it has heard Joyce rebuffed trying to reinvent history over the reasons for the CASA inquiry into the incident.
It will hear from McCormick and Dolan again today.
And it will hear from the pilots, or at least the major union, when the Australian and International Pilots Association, returns to the table, fuming, one suspects over the testimony on the Jetstar Cadet Scheme/sham/whatever, that Buchanan gave on February 25 because this seeming attempt to subvert Australian superannuation levies and industrial awards or agreements by paying Australian workers NZ money. And not very much of it either.
That Cadet Scheme now appears to have morphed into something else. Buchanan’s commentary on this is apparently eagerly awaited, and no doubt both he and Joyce will grace the inquiry with their attendance in due course, when it suits them of course.
Also rocking up to the table today is Virgin Blue CEO John Borghetti, who it is expected will take the inquiry through the two pages A4 sized submission his company made to the inquiry.* The committee has provided at least 90 minutes to discuss the two pages with Borghetti, which should be an interesting if not searching exercise.
Borghetti was unable to attend the February 25 hearings because he was in Abu Dhabi stitching up his former employer Qantas with a wickedly clever alliance with Etihad.
He has a fantastic opportunity this morning to sell the merits of his E-jet flights to Canberra to the good senators over those clunky buzzy stick shaking Qantaslink prop jets.
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Borghetti was unable to attend the February 25 hearings because he was in Abu Dhabi stitching up his former employer Qantas with a wickedly clever alliance with Etihad.
YOU BACKED THE WRONG HORSE!!!
Thank's for the PM Kelpie.
I've logged onto the Broadcast stream, and the usual page comes up with the elevator music and a note on the left hand side saying "In Camera". Does this mean that the In Camera submissions will be actually be broadcast at 0915, or will we only be able to see the program broadcast at 0945?
I've logged onto the Broadcast stream, and the usual page comes up with the elevator music and a note on the left hand side saying "In Camera". Does this mean that the In Camera submissions will be actually be broadcast at 0915, or will we only be able to see the program broadcast at 0945?
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The game is almost up.
You haven't factored in the Gillard/Albanese/Abbot/Whoever gravy train my friend. Have a read of the B. Sandilands article again Will apathy allow Qantas to off-shore more? – Plane Talking its like he's been reading my mind. Its a cracker and I reckon its absolutely spot on the money. There is BIG money on the table here.
My prediction is this:
Big business ALWAYS wins in Australia and the Inquiry findings will be drowned by the sheer might of the QF group. As I've said I don't see the problem as AJ BB or B2 I see the problem as a totally corrupt government system addicted to squeezing every last drop out of the Australian tax payer. They have painted themselves into a corner and they know it. The EK roadshow might have a longer line than predicted.
Ohh looky that an article about the possible pilot "shortage"in the Australian. These people have far reaching power and can make eskimos buy expensive ice.
The ONLY hope lies in Senator X and its why I called him "the most important person in our industry".
Contempt of the Senate and remedies for contempt
When the actions of a witness or another person influencing a witness have the effect of obstructing the inquiries of a Senate committee (or future inquiries), those actions may be treated as contempts. Examples of such offences include:
Refusing without reasonable excuse to answer a question;
Giving false or misleading evidence;
Failing to attend or to produce documents when required to do so;
Intimidation of a witness;
Adverse treatment of a witness;
Wilfully disturbing a committee while it is meeting.
The Parliamentary Privileges Act 1987 provides that a House of Parliament may impose terms of imprisonment or substantial fines for individuals and corporations as a penalty for contempt. To date the Senate has not had occasion to use either of these penalties, preferring an educative and preventative approach. The Senate has accepted apologies and remedial action, and has encouraged government officials in particular to attend training courses on the rights and obligations of witnesses before parliamentary committees.
When the actions of a witness or another person influencing a witness have the effect of obstructing the inquiries of a Senate committee (or future inquiries), those actions may be treated as contempts. Examples of such offences include:
Refusing without reasonable excuse to answer a question;
Giving false or misleading evidence;
Failing to attend or to produce documents when required to do so;
Intimidation of a witness;
Adverse treatment of a witness;
Wilfully disturbing a committee while it is meeting.
The Parliamentary Privileges Act 1987 provides that a House of Parliament may impose terms of imprisonment or substantial fines for individuals and corporations as a penalty for contempt. To date the Senate has not had occasion to use either of these penalties, preferring an educative and preventative approach. The Senate has accepted apologies and remedial action, and has encouraged government officials in particular to attend training courses on the rights and obligations of witnesses before parliamentary committees.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 17th Mar 2011 at 22:06.
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Krusty
No it means that the Hearing has started and that the Senators are asking questions of individuals as we speak in private!!! (Not AJ and BB though).
Public broadcast starts at 9.45 Canberra Time
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The Kelpie
No it means that the Hearing has started and that the Senators are asking questions of individuals as we speak in private!!! (Not AJ and BB though).
Public broadcast starts at 9.45 Canberra Time
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The Kelpie
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Thats the point Mr Hat
The Qantas Group is a big game of smoke and mirrors.
The Senators will soon realise that the Qantas group is no the big company it was and that Joyce say it is, and that it is a franchise that is full of foreign investment and shareholders. In order to survive that business relies on the breaking of fundamentl laws of the Australian Land. Not really the Spirit of Australia is it?? Unfortunately allowing Qantas to break the laws that they are breaking means that if the Government condone it then it will open the floodgates, many aspects of important Australian legislation will be in tatters.
remember I said it was about the people? Well the Airline Industry is just a trojan horse for Keith Abbott, HR Exec at Jetstar, (who incidently is undertaking his first job in an airline after a successul career in mining and oil) to get through changes in legislation/support from the Government before he and his friends rip the whole thing apart and he returns to the mining industry a hero!! Australian Citizens working for sham Asian corporations in the Australian mines getting paid Asian Money!! Potentially there will be no australian employers, they will all be based offshore and paying taxes to foreign countries.
Would it surprise you to know that Boston Consulting has clients in the Mining and oil industry?? Do you think KA's appointment was by chance??
I liken the business strategy to that employed by the banks who relied )and thrived on american credit to allow their own business to flourish. Check out Royal Bank of Scotland a bank that sub-contracted its lending to the US. Just see what happenned to them!!) Then the Americans buggerred their own economy and the bloody lot fell down just like a house of cards.
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The Kelpie
The Qantas Group is a big game of smoke and mirrors.
The Senators will soon realise that the Qantas group is no the big company it was and that Joyce say it is, and that it is a franchise that is full of foreign investment and shareholders. In order to survive that business relies on the breaking of fundamentl laws of the Australian Land. Not really the Spirit of Australia is it?? Unfortunately allowing Qantas to break the laws that they are breaking means that if the Government condone it then it will open the floodgates, many aspects of important Australian legislation will be in tatters.
remember I said it was about the people? Well the Airline Industry is just a trojan horse for Keith Abbott, HR Exec at Jetstar, (who incidently is undertaking his first job in an airline after a successul career in mining and oil) to get through changes in legislation/support from the Government before he and his friends rip the whole thing apart and he returns to the mining industry a hero!! Australian Citizens working for sham Asian corporations in the Australian mines getting paid Asian Money!! Potentially there will be no australian employers, they will all be based offshore and paying taxes to foreign countries.
Would it surprise you to know that Boston Consulting has clients in the Mining and oil industry?? Do you think KA's appointment was by chance??
I liken the business strategy to that employed by the banks who relied )and thrived on american credit to allow their own business to flourish. Check out Royal Bank of Scotland a bank that sub-contracted its lending to the US. Just see what happenned to them!!) Then the Americans buggerred their own economy and the bloody lot fell down just like a house of cards.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Last edited by The Kelpie; 17th Mar 2011 at 22:41.
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I'm surprised there has been no comment on here about the brilliantly timed Steve Creedy article on the pilot shortage in The Australian in this thread.
He's using those old figures that the use at flying schools to get students in. You know "mass retirements" "there will be nobody to fly". The timing and tokeness of it shows the influence of business not over just government but also the media.
He's using those old figures that the use at flying schools to get students in. You know "mass retirements" "there will be nobody to fly". The timing and tokeness of it shows the influence of business not over just government but also the media.
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Keep up the good work Kelpie!!! You are doing outstanding work!
I'm in QLD, but wish I could join all of you who are going to the inquiry today.... and indeed when the elusive QF pair show up some time in the future.
This is a defining time in Aus (and to a lesser extent NZ) aviation.
I'm in QLD, but wish I could join all of you who are going to the inquiry today.... and indeed when the elusive QF pair show up some time in the future.
This is a defining time in Aus (and to a lesser extent NZ) aviation.
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Qantas CEO Alan Joyce and Jetstar Group CEO Bruce Buchanan are no shows at today’s pu
This is today's piece by Ben Sandilands, as posted to 'Place Talking'.
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce and Jetstar Group CEO Bruce Buchanan are no shows at today’s public hearing by the Senate committee inquiring into pilot training and airline safety in Australia.
However while their attendance had been widely anticipated, and indeed requested, they were never confirmed as attending today to answer further questions arising from their previous testimony on February 25.
Both men are very busy, and certainly too busy today for the Senate. Which will just have to wait.
But the inquiry, chaired by Senator Bill Heffernan, and instigated by Sentator Nick Xenophon, has produced some astonishing revelations to date, including a series of ‘stick shaker’ events on Qantaslink turbo props, the very ones the good senators often fly on.
It has also heard the CEO of CASA, John McCormick, and the chief commissioner of the ATSB, Martin Dolan, flatly contradict the Qantas submission on the causes of the near disaster with a Jetstar A320 attempting to land in fog at Tullamarine on July 27, 2007, and it has heard Joyce rebuffed trying to reinvent history over the reasons for the CASA inquiry into the incident.
It will hear from McCormick and Dolan again today.
And it will hear from the pilots, or at least the major union, when the Australian and International Pilots Association, returns to the table, fuming, one suspects over the testimony on the Jetstar Cadet Scheme/sham/whatever, that Buchanan gave on February 25 because this seeming attempt to subvert Australian superannuation levies and industrial awards or agreements by paying Australian workers NZ money. And not very much of it either.
That Cadet Scheme now appears to have morphed into something else. Buchanan’s commentary on this is apparently eagerly awaited, and no doubt both he and Joyce will grace the inquiry with their attendance in due course, when it suits them.
Also rocking up to the table today is Virgin Blue CEO John Borghetti, who it is expected will take the inquiry through the two pages A4 sized submission his company made to the inquiry. The committee has provided at least 90 minutes to discuss the two pages with Borghetti, which should be an interesting if not searching exercise.
Borghetti was unable to attend the February 25 hearings because he was in Abu Dhabi stitching up his former employer Qantas with a wickedly clever alliance with Etihad.
He has a fantastic opportunity this morning to sell the merits of his E-jet flights to Canberra to the good senators over those clunky buzzy stick shaking Qantaslink prop jets.
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce and Jetstar Group CEO Bruce Buchanan are no shows at today’s public hearing by the Senate committee inquiring into pilot training and airline safety in Australia.
However while their attendance had been widely anticipated, and indeed requested, they were never confirmed as attending today to answer further questions arising from their previous testimony on February 25.
Both men are very busy, and certainly too busy today for the Senate. Which will just have to wait.
But the inquiry, chaired by Senator Bill Heffernan, and instigated by Sentator Nick Xenophon, has produced some astonishing revelations to date, including a series of ‘stick shaker’ events on Qantaslink turbo props, the very ones the good senators often fly on.
It has also heard the CEO of CASA, John McCormick, and the chief commissioner of the ATSB, Martin Dolan, flatly contradict the Qantas submission on the causes of the near disaster with a Jetstar A320 attempting to land in fog at Tullamarine on July 27, 2007, and it has heard Joyce rebuffed trying to reinvent history over the reasons for the CASA inquiry into the incident.
It will hear from McCormick and Dolan again today.
And it will hear from the pilots, or at least the major union, when the Australian and International Pilots Association, returns to the table, fuming, one suspects over the testimony on the Jetstar Cadet Scheme/sham/whatever, that Buchanan gave on February 25 because this seeming attempt to subvert Australian superannuation levies and industrial awards or agreements by paying Australian workers NZ money. And not very much of it either.
That Cadet Scheme now appears to have morphed into something else. Buchanan’s commentary on this is apparently eagerly awaited, and no doubt both he and Joyce will grace the inquiry with their attendance in due course, when it suits them.
Also rocking up to the table today is Virgin Blue CEO John Borghetti, who it is expected will take the inquiry through the two pages A4 sized submission his company made to the inquiry. The committee has provided at least 90 minutes to discuss the two pages with Borghetti, which should be an interesting if not searching exercise.
Borghetti was unable to attend the February 25 hearings because he was in Abu Dhabi stitching up his former employer Qantas with a wickedly clever alliance with Etihad.
He has a fantastic opportunity this morning to sell the merits of his E-jet flights to Canberra to the good senators over those clunky buzzy stick shaking Qantaslink prop jets.
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Well the evidence seemed a lot more balanced.
Do not be suprised if the QF lot make an appearance this afternoon after that professional display from John borghetti!!!
Today my friends the winds changed direction and in doing so mark the beginning of the future of safer skies in Australia.
Prediction 2: Stephen Phillips - The second most important man in aviation - don't be suprised if the senators engage this guy to lead a task force looking into training deeper!!
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The Kelpie
Do not be suprised if the QF lot make an appearance this afternoon after that professional display from John borghetti!!!
Today my friends the winds changed direction and in doing so mark the beginning of the future of safer skies in Australia.
Prediction 2: Stephen Phillips - The second most important man in aviation - don't be suprised if the senators engage this guy to lead a task force looking into training deeper!!
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Last edited by The Kelpie; 18th Mar 2011 at 01:25.
It was interesting to see JB make an issue that Virgin was not trying to offshore work but the opposite, and have growth to occur in Australia unlike QF/JQ which is only going down the offshore base path(obviously to save money on wages and conditions). It is easy to see that JB has his finger on the pulse and is distancing himself from the Qantas/Jetstar divide and conquer approach to setting up offshore bases with lower pay and conditions!
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Yes Cynphil.
Now all John has to do is deliver.
He will never have a shortage of pilots or crew working for him if all he and his representatives said was true.
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The Kelpie
Now all John has to do is deliver.
He will never have a shortage of pilots or crew working for him if all he and his representatives said was true.
More to follow
The Kelpie
Although i have great respect for JB, he is still running an airline that is competing in an overcrowded market with limited funds and huge competition from both the leisure and business ends of the market. Do you really think he won't go down the same path as J* if he is able and there are huge savings to be made with low time cadets and offshoring? He can say whatever he wants to the enquiry (doesn't everyone else?) but in the end if he is bleeding cash against an airline with lower costs what do you think he will do?
I really hope i'm wrong, but he was the one that basically set up Jetconnect on the Tasman against mainline pilots, and a two page submission doesn't really fill me with confidence! As Kelpie basically says, actions speak louder than words. I wait in hope that he will show the clowns at Qantas how to run an airline with the staff engaged, but i won't be holding my breath. At least he had the decency to turn up!
I really hope i'm wrong, but he was the one that basically set up Jetconnect on the Tasman against mainline pilots, and a two page submission doesn't really fill me with confidence! As Kelpie basically says, actions speak louder than words. I wait in hope that he will show the clowns at Qantas how to run an airline with the staff engaged, but i won't be holding my breath. At least he had the decency to turn up!
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JB and team well done.
Atlast we have what appears to be an industry leader prepared to stand up and be counted after a false start which he took on the chin. Played a brilliant balancing act by letting his team perform when they should and be prepared to sit back and let them show their skills. No toxic culture at DJ I suspect.
Presentation was clear and articulate and for a change didnt want to fight the world. Refreshing to hear of engagement with the world (atleast on the face of it) on a reasonable basis and with a clear vision of where he is going.
Politically clever in distancing from all things Orange without sticking the knife in which would have been so easy.
Well done.
ps I am not a DJ employee but merely an interested observer.
Atlast we have what appears to be an industry leader prepared to stand up and be counted after a false start which he took on the chin. Played a brilliant balancing act by letting his team perform when they should and be prepared to sit back and let them show their skills. No toxic culture at DJ I suspect.
Presentation was clear and articulate and for a change didnt want to fight the world. Refreshing to hear of engagement with the world (atleast on the face of it) on a reasonable basis and with a clear vision of where he is going.
Politically clever in distancing from all things Orange without sticking the knife in which would have been so easy.
Well done.
ps I am not a DJ employee but merely an interested observer.
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Today my friends marks the beginning of the future of safer skies in Australia.
I'm sorry but I don't think the questions the Senators are asking are specific enough. The depth of knowledge just isn't there.
Everybody bags J* for cadets then Virgin announces them and its hailed as a beginning of safety?
Stephen Philips was excellent.