Jetstar Hiring.... Cadets?!?!

[noprobss]

I can see how people are coming to the conclusion that you will end up a JFO if you go through the ab course.
BUT if you apply for the second stream only (Having passed all ATPL's and MECIR) once finishing the course (3 months) will you be an FO on $84,720 less the $10k (as 1/6 of the costs for the training)?
I can understand the disappointment of whats happening here, with the airlines being able to implement these 'schemes' which will allow them to have FO's and pay them less...and understand that the only way to stop it happening is if we show no interest for these type of positions. But unfortunately I'm sure that there are many other people like myself in GA stuck in positions where I am getting loads of hours......single engine piston hours.....and this would fast track my chance of sitting in a 'big shinny jet'. Although taking a pay cut of what a DEFO would receive I will certainly be making more than I am now in GA and saving 2yrs?
I don't know. I started filling in the application but havn't sent it through yet..

[nt.pilot]

This looks like the way of the future, if you meet the requirements protesting might just mean you miss this oppurtunity, because other ppl who meet the requirements will go for it.. Weigh up the pro's and con's, if i were you and had the option and the money to do it i would go for it! I am looking at the ab initio course but it just costs way too much and like a normal 21 year I old do not have a spare few thousand dollars.... it would be better for someone like me with (GFPT ONLY ) to go for rex.... or cathay

[Fonz121]

if you meet the requirements protesting might just mean you miss this oppurtunity, because other ppl who meet the requirements will go for it

What requirements? $$?

[das Uber Soldat]

Interesting thread.

I'm in GA. I've got maybe 2000 TT but not the 500 multi. I have an ATPL.

I'm seriously considering the ACP. I've always been against the idea of paying for your endorsement so I'm somewhat conflicted. I will have the 500 multi in 2 months time at the current rate I'm flying, so its a case of either wait until then and try direct entry, or apply now for fear of missing the boat.

Thoughts?

[eocvictim]

Originally Posted by noprobss

BUT if you apply for the second stream only (Having passed all ATPL's and MECIR) once finishing the course (3 months) will you be an FO on $84,720 less the $10k (as 1/6 of the costs for the training)?

This is just a case of the airline pissing in your pocket and calling it rain.

Last week an experienced turbo prop driver could have applied for a DEFO slot, and paid the relatively nominal endorsement fee. Now J* opened this "advanced" cadet program (I'd hardly call an experienced ATPL pilot with 2000hr+ a cadet) option what chances do you think there are of the original DEFO slot? It’s a blatant money grab. Nothing more, nothing less.

$84,720 for an A320 endo? Hardly seems right. What do they charge privately, $28kish? Seems you're paying for a job.

noprobss, take up this scheme if you "have to get out" but just remember, you helping reduce conditions for yourself and everyone else. Granted, "if you dont, someone else will" but dont ever complain the money isn't what it was when you're right at the forefront of ruining it.

PS anyone who's interested in this scheme, I have a used car for sale, its a bit old and not 100% but I'm only asking 10% more than what it cost new

[noprobss]

For the 'Advanced Cadet Program' I am some what confused on the pricing...

Ab Initio Cadet Programme Price
A course fee of AUD43,895.00 is payable to OAA prior to commencement of training.
Jetstar will provide you with 50% sponsorship (AUD 21K) towards the ground training costs of the ACP. In addition to this Jetstar will fund (up front) the remaining costs of the ACP program - this will be repaid to Jetstar by cadets over a period of 6 years whilst you are employed as a pilot operating for Jetstar. Note: you will be bonded for a period of 6 years

Pilot Cadet Program - Jetstar Airways
$84,895 AUD

The numbers don't seem to add up....J* will pay 50% "Ground school" $21k...therefore total ground school is $42k? Thats some good ground school....could do another CPL.
Then there is $42895 left which I assume goes to OAA? Oh perhaps the extra $1k is for the "OAA assessment test thing".

So $84895(Total) - 21000(J* 'sponsorship') = $63895 what I need to pay over 6 years = $10649/yr
Starting salary for FO is $84,720 - 10649 = $74071 = a lot more than what I am getting in GA.

After typing this out I am less confused about the pricing but still in amazement how it can cost $85k for an A320 end...

eocvictim:
What kind of car is it and how much? and can i pay you over 6 years?

[hongkongfooey]

Wonder what will happen when these wiz kids realise that their mates in Uni, after spending 4 years smoking dope and rooting other uni students will probably be on at least double the money they are and the gap will widen as the years go by.

Come in Spinner, join the race to the bottom ( surely the bottom can't be too far away )

[Mstr Caution]

once finishing the course (3 months) will you be an FO

Noprobbs, you will a candidate for possible recruitment, if the airline happen to need pilots & you meet their standards. You may be on a hold file or as the FAQ outlines suggested you may be offered employment with a partner airline or other airline yet to exist.

Keep in mind this cadet program has probably taken months to put together, probably longer. When the leisure & low cost market was going gangbusters. Reading in the media the last few weeks, the tide may be turning as punters return to the non leisure carriers.

[ratpoison]

after spending 4 years smoking dope and rooting other uni students will probably be on at least double the money they are

Lol, how very very true.

the tide may be turning as punters return to the non leisure carriers.

And who may THEY be? There is only ONE in Oz who is fast becoming a leisure themselves with a leisure mentality CEO!

[nt.pilot]

I just finished uni and am on the higher end of the graduate pay scale, but i still want to be a pilot! I dont have commitments like kids or a mortgage so a pay cut in order to do something i actually enjoy is worth it. I sit at my desk watching the a380 on final and all the planes flying over the anzac bridge...and it makes me miserable knowing i am not up there.. honestly life isn't just about money. You have to work for the rest of your life, you might as well do something you enjoy...

I went to uni with the full intention of using the graduate job to pay for my flying and to have a 'fall-back' just in case there was another economic crisis.

[eocvictim]

nt.pilot, how was the eco degree? I, along with a lot of experienced mates are now looking for alternative careers because people keep prostituting themselves degrading the conditions in the JOB we WORKED for. If you want to fly so much, but dont care about money do it privately and dont up our CAREER.

Dont justify degrading the pay because flying is a "fun" job. Its still a job and its still hard work. I've had enough of my mates giving me that great big belly laugh when I say I've had a hard day at work. Then have the audacity to tell me its not REAL work. Its attitudes like what you infer that allow airlines and the whole industry to abuse their employees.

If I hear "honestly life isn't just about money. You have to work for the rest of your life, you might as well do something you enjoy..." one more time I'm gonna be sick Not really doing your degree justice with that statement.

[404 Titan]

eocvictim

Unfortunately it is usually a statement made by some generally from a point of immaturity. It must be reinforced that private pilots fly because it is fun. Commercial pilots, Air Transport Pilots and Military Pilots fly for a living. That doesn’t mean we can’t/don’t enjoy our job but the main reason we do it is to earn a living.

[Global Xpress]

Noprobss, correct me if im wrong, but my understanding of the Jetstar EBA is that you would be paid as a Junior FO, ie around 55K, until you have a full, unfrozen ATPL with the required aeronautical experience.

So 45K after the 10K a year loan repayment sounds alot less encouraging.

If you have an ATPL why not apply direct entry? (Understandable if you dont have the multi req).

[mohikan]

You can forget being hired as a DEFO in the future by JQ.

You will cost more and you dont make JQ money like a self funded JFO going through the process described on this thread does. Therefore you are not competitive for the position, despite your flying experience. Indeed, having experience in the industry is now a negative.

CP of Qantas advised some time ago that 60 QF pilots had applied for vacancies under the MOU.

None have been accepted, none will be accepted and the reason is simpler then being 'industrial pollution'.

Experienced F/O's and S/O's are a burden now. You can't charge them for training and you don't make money from them.

The whole argument about the ability / capacity of MPL's ect doesn't even come into it. Its all about money and laughing at the pilots while they (yet again) make f-wits of themselves

[nt.pilot]

I know what you mean , but why do you want to leave aviation? It would be hard/depressing to go from doing something like flying to sitting in an office all day....

[a320please]

I know there would be alot of guys watching this thread very worried. Alot of guys and girls were given interviews by jetstar this year, and they are still interviewing as we speak. Guys were given start dates in June but only to be pulled 2 weeks ago will they ever start or are they making room for the cadets.

[eocvictim]

You just dont get it nt.

The way the industry is heading we wont have a choice unless we want to give up what we've earned. This scheme already stands to take away the experience we've earned in favour of sell-outs who are happy to pay for it.

Before someone turns around and says "oh but $150k is more than enough"; first of all where do you draw the line? Second, I dont work for an airline and dont want to work for an airline, I would rather become a trady. If the airline conditions slip, everyone’s conditions slip. I have a threshold, once it drops below that I'm out, like a lot of ex Ansett guys I've met over the years.

Once this happens (note not if) I will be very happy to overcharge any cadet I meet, clearly they have no respect for their income. Especially when they're happy to line the pockets of management; by the way, how much of that $65m do you reckon Bruce "Buckscam" will walk away with in 6 years?

[patienceboy]

I dont have commitments like kids or a mortgage so a pay cut in order to do something i actually enjoy is worth it.

I understand your position, but one day you will find yourself seeking a job WITH a mortgage and kids. There will be no options for you since jobs will be nearly impossible to get (flooded market) and the pay low due to the preference being for wannabe cadets who pay their way in to the industry. Apparently your experience won't be worth anything. Then you will understand why everyone was carrying on back in 2010.

[Chadzat]

Once this happens (note not if) I will be very happy to overcharge any cadet I meet, clearly they have no respect for their income.

\

This is exactly the point isn't it. I find it amazing that there are so many (mostly young) people who get into aviation, mostly through cadet schemes, but also through GA that seem to have no motivation to EARN MONEY. And by money I dont just mean enough to pay for your groceries and petrol, but REAL MONEY that we should be entitled to as skilled professionals.

This is a rhetorical question- Why would you WANT to pay TWICE as much to do your training, to earn only 60% of the wage? Isn't the whole point of WORKING to make money?

As I think most are getting at in this thread, there is no issue with cadetships per-se. In fact they have the potential to be beneficial to the industry if done right. Unfortunately the majority are not done right and candidates sell their soul to an organisation that screws down the whole profession.

Its as simple as that.

[breakfastburrito]

Whilst trawling another PPRuNe forum, this little gem came to my attention.

Quote:
As to our profession, well I had a great time but its finished, really finished. I derive no joy from saying that. A friend of mine told me about a dinner he went to where there was an advisor in economics to the "brightly coloured" airline board, (a social accident - he did not know him before or fix it up, his friends he went with did). He told me that this guy was fascinating. His contempt for pilots knew no bounds and he expounded gleefully on the summer-only contracts he forsaw and the increasing contractorisation of piloting overall, where contractors bid for the work the brand generated and the lowest cost base won. He looked whistfully at Eastern Europe as a great source of cheap pilots and said supply easily exceeded demand for the forseeable future. His view was that flying an airliner was a slightly more sophisticated train driver style job and said, bluntly, that some train drivers now earned more than pilots, which was as it should be in his view, especially for FO's who he viewed as a legal requirement but otherwise woefully overpaid for their contribution. This, he predicted would change rapidly and so, it seems, is the case at the brightly coloured airline, as elsewhere.

He admitted, apparently, that airlines were a pretty cosy club through the various trade bodies they belong to and that they all got together to discuss areas of mutual interest like overhead - particularly staff costs. The oil price makes an airline a price taker but salaries are where they can be a price maker, he said, and that they were all determined to drive the status and salaries of piloting through the floor. It was, he felt, a ridiclous "career" to enter as the specialisation was so narrow and the industry itself so vulnerable to external shocks that it was virtually to condemn oneself to a job where opportunities were increasingly limited and salaries shrinking in real terms every year and with little chance to move outside it at a corporate level unless to manage within it, where the focus would inevitably be on who could deliver the cheapest cost base given the total commoditisation of the industry product. That meant being the best at screwing down the earnings of your own peer group. He felt that this was all fair game and that the market was so easy to rig against pilots come any sign of a downturn in the economy that becoming one was the height of folly, but that, never-the-less, plenty of people kept applying so there was little need to adjust the career to attract the best, they would take what they got. Safety cut little ice because, as he put it, "you lot all want to get home to your families at the end of your overpaid day, so the passengers will be fine too."

Personally, I would have wanted to either walk out or punch him on the nose, but my mate stayed, gripped by the depth of the exposition this economics expert who sat on many other boards of other industries as well went on to over the course of their evening.
Source: Astraeus A320 Contracts - PPRuNe Forum

Newbies, if you want to see what the future has in store, look at this thread on how Easyjet are treating their cadets, with conditions bordering on legal slavery. Stay away from this industry, earn money doing something else and fly for fun.

I posted this back in January.
nt.pilot, tell us that you really want to join this "game" under the j* cadet model. You will be replaced after 3 years by the next sucker. This is now happening in Europe. FO's don't have their contracts renewed, yet the cadet schemes keep churning out new recruits. You will still owe the balance of your bond. These schemes are literally bankrupting current & former cadets. Don't believe me, read this thread about CTC. Make no mistake, when they decide you are no longer useful (read "experienced") they will find some way to dump you. This is happening in Europe, and it will happen here.
The instant training becomes a revenue stream, there is every incentive to continue and expand it, and training is now a significant revenue stream. Where will that leave you?