Foreign Nationals operating domestic Aus sectors

[training wheels]

I travelled on JQ62 from SIN to DRW as SLF in April this year. All crew were definitely very Australian. The A320 was too .. VH registered.

So, is Jetstar now using Singapore cabin crews on JQ62? Is that what's alleged here?

[dizzylizzy]

Thought about the Jetconnect LH/SH crew operating domestic sectors in Oz? PER rtn's exMEL?

[Pass-A-Frozzo]

Could an American working for COCA COLA in the USA come to Australia and start loading trucks with pallets of COKE ?

So what do you see as the dividing line here?

IBM can make a sale, send software / hardware engineers to Australia who install the software / hardware and have them leave.

Why shouldn't an airline be able to make a sale, send an aircraft and crew to Australia who transport people and have them leave?

What's the underlying philosophy here?

The ADF use a charter flight with foreign crew that lands as first port of call in Darwin then several domestic legs. Is anyone suggesting that is wrong?

[tail wheel]

On April 14, 2010, one can book domestic passage from Sydney to Brisbane on the MV Sun Princess.

I haven't checked the vessel's registry, but I suspect it is probably registered in Panama, US owned, British Master, German Engineers, Filipino, Chinese and Sri Lankan crew. I doubt any, from the Master down, have valid Australian Visas which entitles them to work in Australia.

In terms of the Migration Regulations 1994, could someone explain the difference to JQ operating SIN - DRW - MEL with foreign cabin crew?

[Metro man]

I haven't checked the vessel's registry, but I suspect it is probably registered in Panama, US owned, British Master, German Engineers, Filipino, Chinese and Sri Lankan crew. I doubt any, from the Master down, have valid Australian Visas which entitles them to work in Australia.

Could that crew get off in Brisbane, change to an AUSTRALIAN REGISTERED ship and sail it to Sydney ? I doubt it.

[Pass-A-Frozzo]

I'm still wondering though. What's the issue in this circumstance? I would have thought foreign crew on a foreign aircraft would not be an issue?

[Metro man]

I tried this link Australian Visa wizard - Visas & Immigration , entering information which would apply to Foreign cabin crew wanting to work in Australia and couldn't find any visa which would cover them.

Prehaps a working holiday visa would cover the younger ones. If so do they have one ?

Anyone else want to try ?

[Pass-A-Frozzo]

That link would apply to aircrew who wish to move to Australia and then seek a job, rather than aircrew transiting Australia on an aircraft.
There is a big difference between a pilot trying to move to Australia in search of a job and a pilot on an aircraft flying through Australia.

<< is it just me or is one of the mods trying to ban my ip.. I'm having to use other means... >> A simple go away email from a mod would suffice.. ok working again?!?

[ditzyboy]

Jetstar is currently recruiting heavily in Singapore for the JQ Australia operation, there are other sectors (DRW-SYD, JQ74) with international flight numbers that presently do not have foreign nationals operating on them

I have had BKK crew ops JQ73 SYD-DRW (conx SGN) recently. Crew was a mix of DRW, SYD and BKK, actually.

[tail wheel]

Prehaps a working holiday visa would cover the younger ones. If so do they have one ?

No. There is a special Visa for crews of ships and aircraft regularly operating in/within Australia. Transit crews with Seaman's Book or appropriate license do not require a Visa. All in accordance with International conventions. You'll need to search the Immigration web site to find it.

<< is it just me or is one of the mods trying to ban my ip.. I'm having to use other means... >>

No .... at least not yet! PPRuNe was again experiencing very frustrating problems most of last night our time.

[tail wheel]

My error - the rules have changed!

Gone from a simple Seamans Book to what apprears to be an excessively complex Visa structure. Where would we be without Politicians and Public Servants?

[mates rates]

The precedent was set in 1989 by another labour government so don't expect anything to change now.

[Muff Hunter]

JQ management are about to recieve some grief over this.

The FAA took this to the Deputy Prime Minister recently and from reports she was less than impressed with what JQ are doing.

If this is left unchecked they can create all sorts of tag flights around the country and use even more o/s based cc, especially now when they are possibly about to have some industrial problems with their eba cc who's agreement expired sometime ago and are disgusted by the new JQ offer.

JQ are management have realised that the years of abuse of their workforce is now coming back to bite them so they are coming up with ways to counter this with cheap (sweat shop style) o/s labour!

[Keith Myath]

tail wheel

On April 14, 2010, one can book domestic passage from Sydney to Brisbane on the MV Sun Princess.

I haven't checked the vessel's registry, but I suspect it is probably registered in Panama, US owned, British Master, German Engineers, Filipino, Chinese and Sri Lankan crew. I doubt any, from the Master down, have valid Australian Visas which entitles them to work in Australia.

In terms of the Migration Regulations 1994, could someone explain the difference to JQ operating SIN - DRW - MEL with foreign cabin crew?

The Australian coast is protected by Cabotage. For the MV Sun Princess (or any other foreign registered ship) to operate on the Australian Coast will have either a single voyage permit or continuous voyage permit. It is worth noting that there are some conditions attached to these permits:

The Navigation Act requires all shipping engaged in the coasting trade to be either licensed or to be granted specific exemptions from the licensing requirements in the form of single or continuous voyage permits (SVPs or CVPs). Any ship, whether Australian or foreign, can obtain a license to operate on the coast provided certain economic conditions are met, as set out in Part VI of the Act, which are principally:

1. that seafarers employed on the ship shall be paid wages at the current rates ruling in Australia, and
2. that the ship is not in receipt, either directly or indirectly, of any subsidy or bonus from a foreign government.

I bet that the foreign nationals operating within Australia would love that protection. Any guesses what the wages are for the Jetstar Singapore or Thai flight attendants?

PAF

I'm still wondering though. What's the issue in this circumstance? I would have thought foreign crew on a foreign aircraft would not be an issue?

Foreign Registered aircraft are not permitted to operate domestic sectors.

A Foreign Aircraft AOC may authorise the operation of a foreign registered aircraft on flights into, out of or within Australian territory that are not regulated domestic flights. (Civil Aviation Act, 1988, 27AE (4.a))

The issue is foreign crew operating domestic sectors, it matters not which rego the aircraft has (VH in this case).

mates rates

The precedent was set in 1989 by another labour government so don't expect anything to change now

There is currently no approval, special visa or any legislation that permits foreign national cabin crew to operate domestically. Talk about seafarers or 89 distracts from this point.

Again, find me the exemption that Jetstar have that allows them to use foreign nationals on domestic sectors.

[blow.n.gasket]

I wonder what all that malarkey about 5th freedom rights might have to do with this topic?

[ferris]

Once again- it doesn't matter about what one arm of government says; you have to comply with all laws.

As for the whole shipping argument: Since when, Tail Wheel, has pointing out that somebody else is breaking a law, ever been a defence against it? I'd like to see you argue with the next copper who pulls you over for speeding in your car that it's ok because you saw some boats speeding.

[Metro man]

Just because the base is in Singapore it may not mean the flight attendents are Singaporean. Could someone confirm the nationality of the crews ?

Flight attendents working in Singapore are multi national and include Malaysians, Thais, Indonesians, Philippinos, Vietnamese and mainland Chinese.

Even a Singaporean f/a not working for SQ would only be on around SG$2000 a month, plus possible commission on sales.

Also do the F/As hold ASIC cards as they are accessing restricted areas at Australian airports ?

[By George]

I doubt they would hold an ASIC. I am one of many Australian Citizens now working off-shore and they won't give me one. They say it's because I am a 'non-resident'. During my last Aussie I/F renewal I had to be escorted out to the aircraft and escorted back to the hangar. During crew visits with my company I conduct airside 'walk-arounds' on my company ID as if I own the place. (smiling at all the Middle-Eastern bag chuckers with their ASICs' as I walk past).

[twiggs]

Originally Posted by Metro man

Even a Singaporean f/a not working for SQ would only be on around SG$2000 a month, plus possible commission on sales.

I heard Jetstar f/a's in SG get less than $1000 a month.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Also do the F/As hold ASIC cards as they are accessing restricted areas at Australian airports ?

Foreign crews (including F/As) are not required to display ASICs in secure areas, an airline ID and uniform are sufficient. The lawful reason for entry requirement also applies.

From the Aviation Transport Security Regulations:
3.05 Crew of foreign and state aircraft etc

Despite regulation 3.03, the following people need not display
an ASIC in a secure area:
(a) a person who is a member of the crew of a foreign aircraft
(other than a state aircraft) that is engaged in a regular
public transport operation or a charter operation and who:
(i) is in the uniform of the aircraft operator; and
(ii) displays appropriate identification issued or
authorised by the aircraft operator: