Senate estimates and CASA
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skullduggery
Folks, I initially posted this thred because I thought it interesting how the Skull has stood up for his staff,openly. I also thought that maybe the Regulator was turning a corner in a positive way. These were quite simply thoughts of mine.
However, with some of the responses about CASA, as well as some of the ongoing issues with the Regulator ( which is no different to some of the issues Industry faces - morale, pay structure, management etc ) I have a theory - Perhaps some of CASA's issues run deeper than the Regulator ? For example, The Screaming Skull may be the CEO/Director, but in fact he doesnt call the shots, a board does that, as well as the Federal Government. The truth is that The Skulls hands are tied by government Bureaucracy when it comes to direction. Everybody knows that CASA is short staffed, totally underfunded and has its strings pulled by the government. The former CEO did not paint a truthful picture as far as staffing issues were concerned, or the ability to manage and undertake extra projects due to continual budget restraints. And of course, nobody likes going to their boss and asking for more money and more staff.
As long as the federal government continue to run CASA like it is the Department Of Social Security and underfund it, the risk of an 'unfortunate incident' keeps growing.
Has funding and staff levels grown adequately since Lockhart River ?? Negative, they have gone backwards.
My point is that the CEO cant do what a CEO needs to do without actual authority, money and manpower. So in reality, The Skull is in between a rock and a hard place.
Secondly, whether it be CASA or Industry, each has its issues of incompetence, poor management and management decisions, dumb ass employees and wastes money in some shape or form. The most vocal opponents of CASA are the those who like to bend the rules. The most vocal opponents of Industry are those who are bitter about the kind of ludicrous salaries that CEO's and Directors are pulling, most of it being unjustified rorts.
I am not a hippy, nor an advocate of kisses and cuddles, but the sooner the Regulator and Industry start working together, and pushing accountability in some ways back on to the federal stooges, the safer the outcome will be for ALL.
However, with some of the responses about CASA, as well as some of the ongoing issues with the Regulator ( which is no different to some of the issues Industry faces - morale, pay structure, management etc ) I have a theory - Perhaps some of CASA's issues run deeper than the Regulator ? For example, The Screaming Skull may be the CEO/Director, but in fact he doesnt call the shots, a board does that, as well as the Federal Government. The truth is that The Skulls hands are tied by government Bureaucracy when it comes to direction. Everybody knows that CASA is short staffed, totally underfunded and has its strings pulled by the government. The former CEO did not paint a truthful picture as far as staffing issues were concerned, or the ability to manage and undertake extra projects due to continual budget restraints. And of course, nobody likes going to their boss and asking for more money and more staff.
As long as the federal government continue to run CASA like it is the Department Of Social Security and underfund it, the risk of an 'unfortunate incident' keeps growing.
Has funding and staff levels grown adequately since Lockhart River ?? Negative, they have gone backwards.
My point is that the CEO cant do what a CEO needs to do without actual authority, money and manpower. So in reality, The Skull is in between a rock and a hard place.
Secondly, whether it be CASA or Industry, each has its issues of incompetence, poor management and management decisions, dumb ass employees and wastes money in some shape or form. The most vocal opponents of CASA are the those who like to bend the rules. The most vocal opponents of Industry are those who are bitter about the kind of ludicrous salaries that CEO's and Directors are pulling, most of it being unjustified rorts.
I am not a hippy, nor an advocate of kisses and cuddles, but the sooner the Regulator and Industry start working together, and pushing accountability in some ways back on to the federal stooges, the safer the outcome will be for ALL.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Justapplhere;
I just wrote a reply to your question and was lost in a time out on the site by the looks of things. But from memory;
Destruction of evidence- Obstruction- Delaying- Failing to answer questions correctly in Senate Estimates- Failing to accept responsibility- Failure to accept liability- Legal obfuscation- Weak and non actionable apologies- Failure to pay compensation- And the list goes on and all under the heading of cronyism over an eight year period until brought to a conclusion by Federal Government intervention and then only after they were cornered like rats.
CASA has learnt nothing from this, and other (some worse), cases except how to cover their arse better.
If John McCormick wants constructive input with the criticism perhaps he should explore or at least be aware that (as I understand it), a Bill has been presented to The House of representatives three times to include the words “FOSTER AVIATION” in text with the CASA charter and passed through only to be defeated in the Senate each time. Perhaps it’s time he encouraged someone to run this up the flagpole again to see who salutes this time.
How about include a Bill to re evaluate the liability of CASA employees so the regulatory review process can proceed without the legal misdirection / hijacking and time wasting to cover said arses while at it.
He should feel free to PM me if he needs my name for his voodoo doll
As for your education, have a read of The Phelan Papers. PM me if you need a contact to obtain a copy. It would do John McCormick well to read this also.
I just wrote a reply to your question and was lost in a time out on the site by the looks of things. But from memory;
Destruction of evidence- Obstruction- Delaying- Failing to answer questions correctly in Senate Estimates- Failing to accept responsibility- Failure to accept liability- Legal obfuscation- Weak and non actionable apologies- Failure to pay compensation- And the list goes on and all under the heading of cronyism over an eight year period until brought to a conclusion by Federal Government intervention and then only after they were cornered like rats.
CASA has learnt nothing from this, and other (some worse), cases except how to cover their arse better.
If John McCormick wants constructive input with the criticism perhaps he should explore or at least be aware that (as I understand it), a Bill has been presented to The House of representatives three times to include the words “FOSTER AVIATION” in text with the CASA charter and passed through only to be defeated in the Senate each time. Perhaps it’s time he encouraged someone to run this up the flagpole again to see who salutes this time.
How about include a Bill to re evaluate the liability of CASA employees so the regulatory review process can proceed without the legal misdirection / hijacking and time wasting to cover said arses while at it.
He should feel free to PM me if he needs my name for his voodoo doll
As for your education, have a read of The Phelan Papers. PM me if you need a contact to obtain a copy. It would do John McCormick well to read this also.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dicks Perspective
What about our mate,The Electronic Store guru DS ? Whats he reckon about all this CASA folly thats being spread around ?
Its a serious question with no strings attached. Just curious.
Its a serious question with no strings attached. Just curious.
I strongly agree with John McCormick’s comment in relation to people being “downright cowardly” when they post on this or other websites attacking others by name or inference, but then insisting on remaining anonymous themselves. I believe it’s un-Australian.
If someone really believes that a person in CASA is not doing the right thing, they should have the guts to place their own name on the complaint.
If someone really believes that a person in CASA is not doing the right thing, they should have the guts to place their own name on the complaint.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One way communication system?
If he wants a military style one way communication system where everyone is told to "shut up and do as you are told. You are not paid to think", then he is not the right man for the job. It has been accepted for a long time by thinkers that a two way communication system is essential to fine tune things and detect safety problems before the accidents happen.
They did not do that with the Lockhart River accident.
I see Australian aviation as being sinilar to the way New Zealand was before the Erebus disaster.
Lockhart River was a mini Erebus, but worse.
We need CASA to become part of the team, (it was once) not just a PR agency for the major airlines.
They did not do that with the Lockhart River accident.
I see Australian aviation as being sinilar to the way New Zealand was before the Erebus disaster.
Lockhart River was a mini Erebus, but worse.
We need CASA to become part of the team, (it was once) not just a PR agency for the major airlines.
Dick,
I suggest you harden up. We are all well aware that you will have anybody's guts for garters if they step over the line here on Prune. If you can't take strident criticism then stay away. Besides, most of the posters who argue with you here put quite reasonable points of view IMO.
You are allegedly in command of a fairly high performance jet with all the pressures and intelligence that that entails but you have a meltdown because someone says your Class E airspace is no good, just because you don't know who they are? Come on.
When they write to their local member or the minister, as I have done recently, they probably do.
I suggest you harden up. We are all well aware that you will have anybody's guts for garters if they step over the line here on Prune. If you can't take strident criticism then stay away. Besides, most of the posters who argue with you here put quite reasonable points of view IMO.
You are allegedly in command of a fairly high performance jet with all the pressures and intelligence that that entails but you have a meltdown because someone says your Class E airspace is no good, just because you don't know who they are? Come on.
place their own name on the complaint.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An example of how CASA has interfered with due process is the establishment of an "in house" ombudsman, (which is oxymoronic), with which you are forced to deal with before you can complain to the Commonwealth Ombudsman who naturally will ask... Have you persued all other avenues of redress? At the very least they have added another tier into the due process to frustrate your efforts.
I have found dealing with CASA, and I stress, on matters pertaining to their misadventures and stuff up's, is near impossible because they are too busy absolving themselves from individual or collective guilt.
Whatever process though, you should always involve your Local Federal Member whether they are good or bad. Simply because if things get to go public, they "WILL" capitalise on the publicity.
I hope all my comments are seen as constructive. However I reserve the right to fume over past issues.
bushy makes some valid points.
I have found dealing with CASA, and I stress, on matters pertaining to their misadventures and stuff up's, is near impossible because they are too busy absolving themselves from individual or collective guilt.
Whatever process though, you should always involve your Local Federal Member whether they are good or bad. Simply because if things get to go public, they "WILL" capitalise on the publicity.
I hope all my comments are seen as constructive. However I reserve the right to fume over past issues.
bushy makes some valid points.
Capn Bloggs
I think you are mixing me up with yourself in relation to having a melt down in Class E airspace. By the way, you say
Bloggs, believe it or not, it’s actually not my Class E airspace. It’s one of the most used controlled airspace classifications in the world. As I have said before, one of the reasons I have a “fairly high performance jet” is that I have asked advice and copied the success of others right around the world. Perhaps you could take a hint from this, and then you would have your own “fairly high performance jet”.
John McCormick was not referring to people who write a letter to their Local Member or Minister. He was referring to gutless cowards who defame and attack others on this and other websites whilst concealing themselves behind anonymity.
I think you are mixing me up with yourself in relation to having a melt down in Class E airspace. By the way, you say
your Class E airspace
John McCormick was not referring to people who write a letter to their Local Member or Minister. He was referring to gutless cowards who defame and attack others on this and other websites whilst concealing themselves behind anonymity.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The Coast of Sunshine, Australia
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capn Bloggs said
That makes you Sir, a Coward.
I guess that makes me one too!
To critisize ot not to critisize, that is the question
(Sorry Bill S)
Disco Stu
PPS: I'm off to defame and attack someone! 
I guess that makes me one too!
To critisize ot not to critisize, that is the question
(Sorry Bill S)
Disco Stu
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
gobbledock;
He is on the Board-ex officio. Why? .... and what is the Board's function?
Who, ... in the first instance exactly, reports to The Minister?
Who does one direct their complaints/bile/suggestions/voodoo doll pins to other than the "in house"
ombudsman? and where does "the buck" stop?
When CASA embrace the notion of "fostering" aviation in this country instead of antagonising it, things may begin to improve.
Some simple strokes of the pen to make this part of their charter, plus fix the corrupt stupidity surrounding the abuse of regulatory change to cover their own arse's will start this process. However I fear a repeat performance of the last two Directors intransigence perpetuated by the same Advisors/Bureacrats.
John McCormick should remember "the industry" see CASA as the "bad guy's" and themselves as the "good guy's". He won't change that overnight. Indeed if he begins a change for the better to be carried on by his successors he, and CASA may be seen as a visionary instead of being despotic.
CEO/Director, but in fact he doesnt call the shots, a board does that
Who, ... in the first instance exactly, reports to The Minister?
Who does one direct their complaints/bile/suggestions/voodoo doll pins to other than the "in house"
ombudsman? and where does "the buck" stop?When CASA embrace the notion of "fostering" aviation in this country instead of antagonising it, things may begin to improve.
Some simple strokes of the pen to make this part of their charter, plus fix the corrupt stupidity surrounding the abuse of regulatory change to cover their own arse's will start this process. However I fear a repeat performance of the last two Directors intransigence perpetuated by the same Advisors/Bureacrats.
John McCormick should remember "the industry" see CASA as the "bad guy's" and themselves as the "good guy's". He won't change that overnight. Indeed if he begins a change for the better to be carried on by his successors he, and CASA may be seen as a visionary instead of being despotic.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frank
I don't pretend to know what you have been through with CASA in the past but it seems that whilst you want CASA to start anew, you want to hang onto the past. Might be time to bury the hatchet and give the bloke a call. Very hard for anybody to empathise while they are being attacked for somebody elses mistakes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frankenfurter
Frank, you asked :
Jeez Frank. "Bile and voodoo dolls" ?? Remind me never to upset you ! You dont fly planes full of passengers around do you ??
You ask some valid questions as quoted mate. Sorry, I dont have those sort of answers for you.
In relation to the exact details 'the Boards function','who reports directly to the Minister','Ombudsmen' etc , these are questions I guess you could raise with JMac , Minister Alabanese,The Ombudsmen or your local member of parliament. I am not privvy to any top secret info, I am just a humble taxpayer much like yourself. In fact, the CASA website most likely contains the answers to some of those questions.
He is on the Board-ex officio. Why? .... and what is the Board's function?
Who, ... in the first instance exactly, reports to The Minister?
Who does one direct their complaints/bile/suggestions/voodoo doll pins to other than the "in house"
ombudsman? and where does "the buck" stop?
Who, ... in the first instance exactly, reports to The Minister?
Who does one direct their complaints/bile/suggestions/voodoo doll pins to other than the "in house"
ombudsman? and where does "the buck" stop?
You ask some valid questions as quoted mate. Sorry, I dont have those sort of answers for you.
In relation to the exact details 'the Boards function','who reports directly to the Minister','Ombudsmen' etc , these are questions I guess you could raise with JMac , Minister Alabanese,The Ombudsmen or your local member of parliament. I am not privvy to any top secret info, I am just a humble taxpayer much like yourself. In fact, the CASA website most likely contains the answers to some of those questions.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
(George Santayama).
What is difficult to understand in that statement?
gobbledock;
Your quote I believe, and when I questioned you, you feigned ignorance. If he doesn't call the shots, why is he there? (with 6 posts to your credit I imagine you are either a retiree out for another run and a bit of mischief, or someone who genuinely doesn't know what is going on).
For anybode else who doesn't understand, the regulatory review process has been going on for so many years gold watches should be handed out. This fiasco has been hijacked by those doing the "reforms" to re write the rules to absolve CASA and it's employees of any action against them.
Those ignorant of this fact probably don't know it is possible to legally hold individual CASA officers responsible for their actions. In a queer twist of irony, I believe CASA employees should be protected from prosecution so they can use the "reform" process for what it was designed for. Right now, as someone once said, it is a Principality with 600 Prince's doing nothing to enhance safety or promote aviation in this country.
Changing the King hasn't altered the function or direction of the organisation in the past.
I said earlier, John McCormick is welcome to PM me if he wants to talk face to face. It serves no purpose with me to beg an audience with him.
(George Santayama).
When CASA embrace the notion of "fostering" aviation in this country instead of antagonising it, things may begin to improve
gobbledock;
The Screaming Skull may be the CEO/Director, but in fact he doesnt call the shots,
For anybode else who doesn't understand, the regulatory review process has been going on for so many years gold watches should be handed out. This fiasco has been hijacked by those doing the "reforms" to re write the rules to absolve CASA and it's employees of any action against them.
Those ignorant of this fact probably don't know it is possible to legally hold individual CASA officers responsible for their actions. In a queer twist of irony, I believe CASA employees should be protected from prosecution so they can use the "reform" process for what it was designed for. Right now, as someone once said, it is a Principality with 600 Prince's doing nothing to enhance safety or promote aviation in this country.
Changing the King hasn't altered the function or direction of the organisation in the past.
I said earlier, John McCormick is welcome to PM me if he wants to talk face to face. It serves no purpose with me to beg an audience with him.
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 3rd Nov 2009 at 19:53.
Oi!
Can we quit the personal slanging and get back to the discussion about the Jmc dummy spit and its apparent relativity to CASA, that given the seemingly complimentary RAAF and CX history.
Branding anonymous critical comment as 'cowardly' is effectively discouraging 'whistleblowing' and depriving themselves of information that might not otherwise be available. Products of the military system (and reinforced at a syncophantic CX) are taught they must always be in control and never be caught out by a surprise revelation. Also anonymous contributions are harder to seek or initiate some kind of retribution from.
I am beginning to wonder whether this appointment was a wise one.
I recommend he read the Nimrod Report detailed elswhere on PPRuNe.
CC
Can we quit the personal slanging and get back to the discussion about the Jmc dummy spit and its apparent relativity to CASA, that given the seemingly complimentary RAAF and CX history.
Branding anonymous critical comment as 'cowardly' is effectively discouraging 'whistleblowing' and depriving themselves of information that might not otherwise be available. Products of the military system (and reinforced at a syncophantic CX) are taught they must always be in control and never be caught out by a surprise revelation. Also anonymous contributions are harder to seek or initiate some kind of retribution from.
I am beginning to wonder whether this appointment was a wise one.
I recommend he read the Nimrod Report detailed elswhere on PPRuNe.
CC
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My statements are based upon years of dealing with CASA at the very highest level. I have fought and beat them through bloody minded determination after they put every obstacle possible in my way, I have “lame duck” letters of apology and proof of “counselling” from the then Director, to individuals and organisations, I have the results of a 12 month Commonwealth Ombudsman’s investigation in hand, I have letters signed by The Deputy Prime Minister of the day, I have Hansard records debating my case in The Senate, I have offers and acceptances of Act of Grace payments, (not from CASA though). However to this day, the perpetrators of my misfortune are still in business because they were mates of the boss, and still a possible menace to you. The main CASA players may have moved on, but their replacements have done nothing by way of change to show me they have learnt anything from the experience except how to better cover their arse.
And you dare to suggest I may not know what is going on. By insulting my efforts to make things better for general aviation in this country, you insult everyone who has “had a go”. WTF have you done?
There are many who have lost their income, their future, their families, their pride and credibility but “ALL OF US” have lost “MONEY”, lot’s of it, because of CASA indifference, arrogance, a willingness to defend the indefensible, and corrupt the system you clown.
People who take all the benefits obtained by individuals who put a lot of hard work into at least attempting to fix the system, but stand idly by and rain insults down on those achievers are piss poor examples of Human Beings, and your “weasel words”, epitomise this.
John McCormick so far has shown he is a carbon copy of the last few Directors. Perhaps a bit more sensitive to criticism.
I sincerely hope I am wrong in my assessment.
[/FONT][/COLOR]
And you dare to suggest I may not know what is going on. By insulting my efforts to make things better for general aviation in this country, you insult everyone who has “had a go”. WTF have you done?
There are many who have lost their income, their future, their families, their pride and credibility but “ALL OF US” have lost “MONEY”, lot’s of it, because of CASA indifference, arrogance, a willingness to defend the indefensible, and corrupt the system you clown.
People who take all the benefits obtained by individuals who put a lot of hard work into at least attempting to fix the system, but stand idly by and rain insults down on those achievers are piss poor examples of Human Beings, and your “weasel words”, epitomise this.
John McCormick so far has shown he is a carbon copy of the last few Directors. Perhaps a bit more sensitive to criticism.
I sincerely hope I am wrong in my assessment.
[/FONT][/COLOR]
Moderator
Any further personal "sprays" and the thread will be gone!
