Ansett gone .......but ?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the "family culture" still existed in the trenches airsupport, but I agree with you corporately.
Best example of TNT/NC thinking I can think of was the pooling of parts between TN & AN. This was one of the first things stopped IIRC, and the first thing to bite them on the arse when we needed a spare!
Best example of TNT/NC thinking I can think of was the pooling of parts between TN & AN. This was one of the first things stopped IIRC, and the first thing to bite them on the arse when we needed a spare!
In the good old days at minor ports often used to be a case where if you got your aircraft out okay and the other mob was delayed you used to go help them, NOT post TNT/NC.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Age: 84
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, the then NZ Labour government would not allow SQ to take a larger stake in ANZ. I am an Australian that has lived in NZ for many years, and I still can't understand why the National Party didn't make far more of a political fuss out of a decision that cost the NZ taxpayer very dearly indeed, and was a disgrace.
A SQ controlled ANZ with AN still surviving but restructured would have been a very potent competitor for QF indeed.
I have fond memories of AN, but many of the contributors to this thread are absolutely right that the rot started when ownership went into the hands of TNT/News
A SQ controlled ANZ with AN still surviving but restructured would have been a very potent competitor for QF indeed.
I have fond memories of AN, but many of the contributors to this thread are absolutely right that the rot started when ownership went into the hands of TNT/News
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When the Fat Man and Rupert bought the company in '79, a cartoon appeared on the Melbourne crewroom wall wondering if the airline would be re-named under the new ownership.
Playing upon Rupert's surname, the cartoonist put a drawing of a 727 with 'Murdair' on its side, a not so subtle dig at what he thought would become of the company. (He had a friend in the trucking industry who had bitter experience of the Fat Man with TNT- and who predicted, with telling accuracy, what would transpire after the honeymoon period was over.)
Seems to me quite a few here agree it was a pretty accurate summation.
Reg might not have been a corporate saint, but whatever his faults, he loved that company and understoood the incredible asset he possessed in his staff.
The people who ran the company post 79 (yes, '79, not '89) might have had any number of good points, but looking after the interests of their staff wasn't high on their list of priorities. Asset stripping, on the other hand, seemed to be very close to #1 on that list.
Playing upon Rupert's surname, the cartoonist put a drawing of a 727 with 'Murdair' on its side, a not so subtle dig at what he thought would become of the company. (He had a friend in the trucking industry who had bitter experience of the Fat Man with TNT- and who predicted, with telling accuracy, what would transpire after the honeymoon period was over.)
Seems to me quite a few here agree it was a pretty accurate summation.
Reg might not have been a corporate saint, but whatever his faults, he loved that company and understoood the incredible asset he possessed in his staff.
The people who ran the company post 79 (yes, '79, not '89) might have had any number of good points, but looking after the interests of their staff wasn't high on their list of priorities. Asset stripping, on the other hand, seemed to be very close to #1 on that list.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Up North
Age: 53
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airsupport,
ANZ's involvement with AN took away ANY chance of recovery from it's situation. It was "one of the world's great airlines" and was undergoing massive changes to get it back on track (under Eddington). ANZ exercising their right to buy, as outlined in Richard K's post, to beat their own chests was diabolical for AN - ANZ could not afford to refleet AN, which was desperately needed, and ANZ could barely manage their own operations, let alone a high frequency domestic operation and a classy international operation. ANZ got a hell of a lot more from AN than AN was ever going to get from ANZ. Sat up the front of an ANZ international flight? Very similar product to the award winning AN product - enough to make you cry really.
Cheers
Prado.
ANZ's involvement with AN took away ANY chance of recovery from it's situation. It was "one of the world's great airlines" and was undergoing massive changes to get it back on track (under Eddington). ANZ exercising their right to buy, as outlined in Richard K's post, to beat their own chests was diabolical for AN - ANZ could not afford to refleet AN, which was desperately needed, and ANZ could barely manage their own operations, let alone a high frequency domestic operation and a classy international operation. ANZ got a hell of a lot more from AN than AN was ever going to get from ANZ. Sat up the front of an ANZ international flight? Very similar product to the award winning AN product - enough to make you cry really.
Cheers
Prado.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airsupport,
ANZ's involvement with AN took away ANY chance of recovery from it's situation. It was "one of the world's great airlines" and was undergoing massive changes to get it back on track (under Eddington). ANZ exercising their right to buy, as outlined in Richard K's post, to beat their own chests was diabolical for AN - ANZ could not afford to refleet AN, which was desperately needed, and ANZ could barely manage their own operations, let alone a high frequency domestic operation and a classy international operation. ANZ got a hell of a lot more from AN than AN was ever going to get from ANZ. Sat up the front of an ANZ international flight? Very similar product to the award winning AN product - enough to make you cry really.
Cheers
Prado.
ANZ's involvement with AN took away ANY chance of recovery from it's situation. It was "one of the world's great airlines" and was undergoing massive changes to get it back on track (under Eddington). ANZ exercising their right to buy, as outlined in Richard K's post, to beat their own chests was diabolical for AN - ANZ could not afford to refleet AN, which was desperately needed, and ANZ could barely manage their own operations, let alone a high frequency domestic operation and a classy international operation. ANZ got a hell of a lot more from AN than AN was ever going to get from ANZ. Sat up the front of an ANZ international flight? Very similar product to the award winning AN product - enough to make you cry really.
Cheers
Prado.
I do however have direct personal (intimate) knowledge of Ansett, and fond memories of it too, from 1963 until 1990, and I do KNOW that the long slow painful death of Ansett started back in 1979.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melbourne, oz
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air Support,
Ansett did nothing to Compass other than compete with it. Brian Grey started Compass with no where near enough capital then started a price war he couldn't finish. Choice of aircraft was also poor.
In the end bad management will end any company in such a cut throat industry. --- but then again , QF is still with us!!
Ansett did nothing to Compass other than compete with it. Brian Grey started Compass with no where near enough capital then started a price war he couldn't finish. Choice of aircraft was also poor.
In the end bad management will end any company in such a cut throat industry. --- but then again , QF is still with us!!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air Support,
Ansett did nothing to Compass other than compete with it.
Ansett did nothing to Compass other than compete with it.
You obviously have no knowledge of the facts surrounding what Ansett did to Compass, so don't start that here please.
IF you would like to start another thread about what disgusting things Ansett (well to be fair mainly Sir Peter) did to both Compass and Southern Cross, go ahead but you won't like the truth.
Moderator
Ansett did nothing to Compass other than compete with it. Brian Grey started Compass with no where near enough capital then started a price war he couldn't finish. Choice of aircraft was also poor.
The devil always is in the detail .. but the above probably is tinged with a modicum of pre-schooler simplicity ?
The devil always is in the detail .. but the above probably is tinged with a modicum of pre-schooler simplicity ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: down south
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air support and others I started this thread actaully for peoples opinions of how the industry has changed since Ansett collapsed and with the luxury of hindsight what do we all think of it now, compared to then, with mainly the travelling public in mind not the opinionated pilots.
Yes airfares were high but so was service delivery, not the Virgin kind of service that they promote but im yet to see!
Clean aircraft and terminals, reasonable food and grog, reasonable lines at checkin, on time perforamnce, classy lounges, happy crew, legroom in economy etc etc.
Yes airfares were high but so was service delivery, not the Virgin kind of service that they promote but im yet to see!
Clean aircraft and terminals, reasonable food and grog, reasonable lines at checkin, on time perforamnce, classy lounges, happy crew, legroom in economy etc etc.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MELBOURNE
Age: 80
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Nail Has Been Hit On The Head Destroyed By The Fat Man And His Rich Cronies And Polies (aust And Nz) They Destroyed A Lot Of Good Peoples Lives Rip The Boss Rma And A Great Group To Work With
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So...could I suggest that you don't bother?...
and just go away?
and just go away?
After more than 45 years in the Airline Industry, and many years here on PPRuNe, I just have had enough of the absolute rubbish posted here, by people who obviously know nothing about the Industry.
Of course it is probably worse at present as it is school holidays, and some of you children have nothing better to do.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Devonport Tasmania Australia
Posts: 1,837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John Tulla
I was called off the front end on Goloden Wing/FCL/JCL checkin at AN ADL into the ops room during a quiet time and handed a set of binocs.
I was told to focus on the main gear of a Compass A310 (the cleanskin they had chartered) and I did so.
The temp in the shade outside load control was showing 55 degrees C.
What AN knew and Compass didn't was that the tarmac where the parked was not reinforced.
The A310 taxiied in and within 20 seconds sank to the axles in the overheated tarmac.
The guys in Ops found it hugely amusing, but I didnt.
Just something about giving each other an even break I suppose.
We copped it a bit at DPO and WNY when East West first started down here, but if the AN battery cart failed we were on hand with ours to get their flight away. They indeed reciprocated after they figured out we were fair dinkum.
That was the days of real Airlines, with a culture and passenger care.If your aeroplane broke you would transfer (grudginly) to the other just to get them there and they would be carried at face value of the ticket.
It all went pear shaped when the fat prick and the silver bodgie decided they knew better.
EWL
I was called off the front end on Goloden Wing/FCL/JCL checkin at AN ADL into the ops room during a quiet time and handed a set of binocs.
I was told to focus on the main gear of a Compass A310 (the cleanskin they had chartered) and I did so.
The temp in the shade outside load control was showing 55 degrees C.
What AN knew and Compass didn't was that the tarmac where the parked was not reinforced.
The A310 taxiied in and within 20 seconds sank to the axles in the overheated tarmac.
The guys in Ops found it hugely amusing, but I didnt.
Just something about giving each other an even break I suppose.
We copped it a bit at DPO and WNY when East West first started down here, but if the AN battery cart failed we were on hand with ours to get their flight away. They indeed reciprocated after they figured out we were fair dinkum.
That was the days of real Airlines, with a culture and passenger care.If your aeroplane broke you would transfer (grudginly) to the other just to get them there and they would be carried at face value of the ticket.
It all went pear shaped when the fat prick and the silver bodgie decided they knew better.
EWL
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had SIA pumped more $$$ into AN all they would have achieved is to dig such a deep financial hole that neither AN or Air NZ would have climbed out. As it was it "very" nearly took the collapse of Air NZ to rid the industry of the BIL cancer. As long as BIL were involved (at all) the whole house of cards was coming down .... regardless.
So back to post 1.
As far as Air NZ's involment in this story. Air NZ has always been a good biz but was poorly managed through the 90's under BIL. Now its a great biz well managed. In my opinion a completely diff airline from 10 years ago.
PS: Interesting that one of the few here that has some sensible and informed discussion is told to "go away"...
So back to post 1.
As far as Air NZ's involment in this story. Air NZ has always been a good biz but was poorly managed through the 90's under BIL. Now its a great biz well managed. In my opinion a completely diff airline from 10 years ago.
PS: Interesting that one of the few here that has some sensible and informed discussion is told to "go away"...
Moderator
The A310 taxiied in and within 20 seconds sank to the axles in the overheated tarmac.
I'd not heard the anecdote previously. However, quite apart from the sad "them and us" attitude, it does indicate that both Compass' ops engineering and the airport engineering approvals side of the coin got their work up due diligence grossly wrong.
We copped it a bit at DPO and WNY when East West first started down here, but if the AN battery cart failed we were on hand with ours to get their flight away.
All a bit long ago now for me to remember dates etc. but we very likely said g'day at some stage on the north coast .. Indeed, I always had a fond thought for EWA as it was my first target for airlines .. missed out on EW and ended up having to settle for AN.
That was the days of real Airlines, with a culture and passenger care.
And that applied to all the carriers of the day.
It all went pear shaped when the fat prick and the silver bodgie decided they knew better.
d'accorde !
You mean back in the pre dereg days when we had a 2 airline policy ensuring no competition at all. But very expensive airfares.
Your comment probably indicates that you are much younger than either East West Loco or I. Indeed, competition was somewhat artificial and the fares higher .. but, for those who did travel by air, the product was far "better" than what one sees today.
Horses for courses, I guess.
I'd not heard the anecdote previously. However, quite apart from the sad "them and us" attitude, it does indicate that both Compass' ops engineering and the airport engineering approvals side of the coin got their work up due diligence grossly wrong.
We copped it a bit at DPO and WNY when East West first started down here, but if the AN battery cart failed we were on hand with ours to get their flight away.
All a bit long ago now for me to remember dates etc. but we very likely said g'day at some stage on the north coast .. Indeed, I always had a fond thought for EWA as it was my first target for airlines .. missed out on EW and ended up having to settle for AN.
That was the days of real Airlines, with a culture and passenger care.
And that applied to all the carriers of the day.
It all went pear shaped when the fat prick and the silver bodgie decided they knew better.
d'accorde !
You mean back in the pre dereg days when we had a 2 airline policy ensuring no competition at all. But very expensive airfares.
Your comment probably indicates that you are much younger than either East West Loco or I. Indeed, competition was somewhat artificial and the fares higher .. but, for those who did travel by air, the product was far "better" than what one sees today.
Horses for courses, I guess.