Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

VBA Multiple EBA Woes

Old 3rd Sep 2009, 22:59
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VBA Multiple EBA Woes

FYI things aren't all that rosy at VBA. The "people who love their jobs" are not so happy with what the employer is trying to pay them. VBA is in dispute over EBA's with Engineers, Cabin Crew and Ground Crew. Trouble is looming if you ask me and those in "The Village" appear oblivious to it all.
I realise that times are tough and you have to save a buck here and there but relying on these three work groups to not take some form of industrial action is walking a very fine line.

Link of where the Engineers are at: 190809B200910452
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Old 3rd Sep 2009, 23:13
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And they will shortly be fighting on another front with VA.

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Old 4th Sep 2009, 00:00
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We all love our jobs at VB, but what they are offering employees at present is nothing more than a joke, and in current votes from CC and ground crew go to prove that what they are offering is not what employees want, time to open their ears and start listening, if VB need to cover increase costs they can (and already have done so) by adding a check bag charge of $8 at booking online or $20 at the airport, excess baggage charges have also increased from $8 to $10 per 1kg over.

With Australia is a good economic position already it is being flagged that interest rates will go up next month, the cost of living is increasing all the time yet (ground crew) are being told to 'hang out' three and half years before our next pay rise

Ground crew had their last payrise on the 1st of November 2007.
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 03:47
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Real wages have been in decline for over 20 years (I couldn't be bothered to find a link to the data). When wages are adjusted for inflation we (employees) are all far worse off in 2009 than we really acknowledge. Governments love inflation because it's the hidden tax that ensures you never get ahead, get punished for saving and continue to work like a good little Lemming till you are old and grey

Whenever I see 3% a year increments offered I cringe. The real inflation rate (not the doctored "weighted" CPI) has been well above 5% for the past few years and is probably still around that figure. When we accept 3% or 4% gross wage increases we are in fact taking a pay cut - Why do we accept this crap? Why don't the useless Unions take up the fight to get fair increases that maintain the buying power and standard of living of the workers? I'll never join a Union as I think they are p!ssweak for not fighting for fair increases, they are just part of the deadwood "leaching" schemers who screw the workers for their own benefit.

3% payrise, once taxed (at average 30%) leaves you with a (net) 2% pay increase to cope with 5% inflation.... compund that over 5 or 10 years and see what you have lost

All VB employees need to stand up and fight far a fair wage increase... If you get a small (or no) pay increase you are just getting lied to and r00ted a bit harder this time around...
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 04:16
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What needs to happen is Airlines start putting up their prices so they can get better yeilds, how many other industries or services have dropped prices as much as the Airlines.

Last edited by inandout; 4th Sep 2009 at 07:19.
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 06:06
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how many other industries or serves [sic] have dropped prices
Have you been to JB HiFi or Harvey Norman lately - bargains galore!
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 06:12
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Your feelings and attitude are precisely why you should join a union. Get in there and change what you do not like. Get in there and have a voice in the running of the union. Get in there and take control of your destiny, rather than sitting back wingeing and whining about how bad things are.

A union is only a collective of members and is only as strong as those members make it.

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Old 4th Sep 2009, 06:16
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Welcome to modern feudalism.

Vassals were in turn tenants of the nobles, while the peasants are obliged to live on their lord's land and give him homage, labor, and a share of the produce, notionally in exchange for........ employment!

Awarding one self shares during the present climate should have given staff a wake up call and called for action/justification but as usual they(FEDS) did what again?
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 08:07
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but as usual they(FEDS) did what again?
abc1, If you are refering to the AFAP as the FEDS then you should get the facts right before you having a shot. The FEDs didn't have to do anything because management honoured the pilots' EBA and paid the 3% payrise due. There was no question or suggestion from the company that the payrise would not happen. This may, in fact, show the value, generally, the workers get by being unionised and the strength particularly of the AFAP.

Pilots in V would do themselves a big favour by getting themselves organised and properly represented.
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 11:32
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Let's go point by point in your last post.

Is not a 3% increase in your salary payrise???? The FEDS would have been irresponsible to push for a higher payrise in the current climate.

While it is debatable that the surplus was not handled well as it could have been, we should appreciate the fact that despite the reduction in flying not one pilot was made redundant.

Verbal diarrhoea does not substitute for facts.

I am interested to hear what union you believe can genuinely represent you.
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 14:33
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Actually quite a few pilots were made redundant.... I know of many that were told that their position was redundant, but there was a job on less pay, on a different type, in a different city, if they wanted it.....

Yes, no one was forced to leave VB, but many positions on the B737 were 'made redundant'.

The Chef
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 22:39
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Chef, while you are technically correct, at least no one was on the street.
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 23:25
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My post was more of a rant than a complaint/whinge. I was making a point.

I have made choices to ensure my income/standard of living is maintained when indexed for inflation. I am not on an EBA.

The reason I won't join a Union is because the "majority" will always accept 3% (or so) no matter what I believe in. It's called Democracy.

The Union starts off "demanding" what is reasonable and then the compromises come in and the workers end up working harder for a pay cut.
Why do people on EBA's have to give productivity increases just to keep their incomes up with inflation... or to cop the pay cuts as I rant on and on about!!!!

Good luck with the EBA negotiation VB Folks. Fight for what you deserve!
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Old 5th Sep 2009, 01:43
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But that is exactly the point. It is a democracy.

Most of us are not unique, so get a bunch of like minded souls and democratically push through what you want. If you can't persuade the majority, then possibly it is not a good idea.

From your CRM studies, take note of the word SYNERGY.

The tools are in your hands.

maui is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2009, 02:57
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Whilst I accept that the AFAP representation does have its issues (as all Unions will) it always amazes me that individuals forget that "THE FEDS" as they are usually referred to are in fact the pilots themselves.

When I hear a complaint on the line about whatever issue I very rarely hear that the matter has been formally raised with the AFAP, on most occasions the individual concerned could not even bother making a simple phone call to Melbourne.

Much moaning was made recently regarding the assignment of unwanted leave yet was the AFAP asked to intervene on a pilots behalf to prevent being forced on leave? NUP!

Much moaning was made with the recent 'musical chairs' yet was
the AFAP asked to defend a pilot who was being advised he was redundant? NUP!

If a pilot chooses to accept a position not of his choice without requesting AFAP representation then I find it very difficult to listen to some who accuse the AFAP of "inept representation".

With the assistance of messrs Cut and Paste your statement -
"Please do not try to exonerate the inactions and subsequent injustices contained herein with a lackadaisical retort"
is rather poignant for those who choose to do nothing except complain after the fact!

Pilots really are their own worst enemy sometimes and are more than happy to blame someone else for their own inaction.

Your criticism of the awarding of shares to the board from the recent equity raising may be valid but do you really think that it is the job of the AFAP to keep control of management remuneration? Perhaps you are confusing shareholder rights to employee entitlements.

This question was asked previously of you (without response) -

"I am interested to hear what union you believe can genuinely represent you."

I too am very interested in that answer and specifically who and how any other representative body will achieve any better.

This "new" representative body that you advocate will have what membership, what assets, what name, what structure, what power, what legitimate standing, what abilities that the AFAP does not have now, and what new ability that will represent all pilots?

For all the critics of the AFAP and its representation - we have an EBA through to 2012 that I think would be unachievable today (some 737 Captains earning over $250,000), we have retained ALL pilots within the group despite the downturn and with commitments to return to original positions when the opportunity arises, and we have continuing opportunities both Domestically and Internationally for all pilots.

Sure we have more work to do industrially but this glass is half full!

Last edited by ad-astra; 6th Sep 2009 at 02:13.
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 02:10
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Word on the street is that the AIRC has granted VIPA registration as a Union.

Anyone know any more?

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Old 8th Sep 2009, 06:12
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AFAP, as the sole objector (if that's a word) dropped their objection to the VIPA registration 30 minutes into the last proceedings, so it was only a formality for the Commissioner to put it through. Thisof course, mean that VIPA will accelerate their membership numbers with warp-speed so that us VB/VA guys will finally be represented by people who actually have our best interests at heart and not a bunch of "fat-cats" feathering their their own nest. (At first I thought the use of "cats" and "nest" weren't really appropriate, but on second thought I realized that I may in fact have been unusually clever in my rhetoric....)
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 07:23
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Is there a website that posts the Commissions decision

Forgive me for asking a stupid question, but how will VIPA represent my interests better than AFAP.

Further, where was the pilot council when redundancies and transfers were announced. Clearly the pilots of VB stood by and let their fellow pilots be pushed places most did not want to go. Now surprise surprise there will be 38 upgrades in the next 6-12 months.

I work for VA, why should I join VIPA in a single union and have those same people, through weight of numbers, screw me over too. VB already **** over the VA pilots by dropping the experience requirements for VB pilots coming over. Despite most being nice human beings it still leaves a bitter feeling.
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 08:22
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Try this hunglo...[2009] FWA 175

Going out on the limb - when all of you joined you knew what was on offer and you knew it wasn't Emirates, ETIHAD, Qatar or even QF etc and that big money easy rosters (40hrs/month) were not and never (I doubt) will be the norm.

Things are picking up - the best way to show dissatisfaction is to walk. When flights get cancelled T&C's pick up pretty quickly. Sadly though not many of you will - as typical of a pilot makeup, we all like to whine and moan, but we don't like change. You like living in BNE (or wherever you might be based), the routes, the crew, staff travel and all the other good things about VB (or for that matter J* which this rhetoric equally applies).

Stepping off the soapbox for the next contender...
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Old 8th Sep 2009, 08:59
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hunglo, that will be an issue for the VIPA leadership to deal with.

I can guarantee one thing though. If you continue to see the DJ crew as the 'enemy' who will try and screw you over then the company wins by pitting both groups at each others throats. You need to realise that your interests and their interests are intrinsically mixed. It's a symbiotic relationship where one needs the other to survive.

OK, now that I've stopped channelling Qui-Gon Jinn (Star Wars, Ep 1) the general thrust still holds true. Stay divided and you're doomed to always cutting off each others noses to spite your own face. Work together and there may be some losers but in the long run everyone will end up far better off.
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