QF A330 servere turbulence

[BrissySparkyCoit]

VH-UFO said....

could state here, "hellllloooo? hellllloooo?" (taps said pilot on the forehead). Is there anybody home? Why didnt the pilot turn on the fasten seatbelt sign?

...and Brissysparkycoit says....

"hellllloooo? hellllloooo?" (taps said VH-UFO on the forehead). Is there anybody home? Why didn't you listen to the safety demonstration that clearly states it is a Qantas requirement that you keep your seatbelt fastened at all times?

How do you know the seatbelt sign was not turned on? Are you assuming this because the pilot allegedly said the exact words, "radar was not functioning", as reported by the wonderfully accurate media?

Is it compulsory to wear seat belts when the seatbelt sign is out in the cruise?

Yes.

You want to be a rebel? Go ahead. I'd prefer to save my neck. I have travelled many times to HK from Australia over the years and experienced some pretty bumpy rides.

[The Green Goblin]

Not the same bird involved in Learmonth was it?

[ferris]

I assume all the various reports are similar to the one I read Qantas passenger hits roof in mid-air turbulence drama The inference I gleaned from this was that they were flying thru bad wx with the wx radar inop: see here

Mr Whitehead said passengers were told the radar was not functioning "so the plane didn't see (the air pocket) and went straight into it".

and here

"There was lightning everywhere ... obviously we were right in the middle of a storm or thunder but it was pretty severe.

What is QFs position on operating with the wx radar inop? I am curious as I saw a RTB by a Gulf carrier just yesterday due wx radar inop. Liability issues?

[Qansett]

about a dumb question...i've been probably reading too much media...isnt airbus 330 strong enough to fight against the heavy turbulence (the weather is getting worst this time - probably global warmning).

[SpiderPig]

So who authorised Corporate Communications to release the Captain's name to the media in a statement? Who in QF is going to take responsibilty for breaching the Captain's privacy?

[blow.n.gasket]

Maybe someone from Qantas could release the private phone # of the person in Corporate communications how gave out the Captains name so the travelling public and the media could give that person a ring at home in order to personally ask any questions they may have.
Do you think they would get the hint as to the trouble such a "mistake like this " can cause to one's family .

[blueloo]

Here is the best bit of journalism containing the most tenuous links I could find.

From the Australian Newspaper Website:

Article from: Australian Associated Press
Incidents involving Australia's fleet of A330 Airbus aircraft:

Jan 19, 2004 - A newly acquired Qantas A330-300 flying from Melbourne to Perth is forced to make an emergency landing in Adelaide after fumes leak into cabin, with seven crew members and two of the 274 passengers taken to hospital with nausea-like symptoms.

Aug 21, 2005 - Nine people, including two Australians, are injured during the evacuation of 178 passengers from a Perth-bound Qantas jet in Osaka, Japan, after a smoke sensor was activated in the aircraft's hold.

Jan-June 2006 - A wasp infestation among Qantas aircraft, particularly A330s, at Brisbane Airport, causes three flights to be aborted during takeoff as well as a number of flight cancellations.

July 24, 2007 - More than 300 passengers are left stranded in Bali when a Bangkok to Melbourne Jetstar flight is forced to divert to Denpasar Airport after an engine failure.

Oct 8, 2008 - Almost 50 people are injured, some seriously, when a Qantas jet, with 303 passengers and a crew of 10 bound from Singapore to Perth, plunges up to 2,000 metres over Western Australia.

Nov 14, 2008 - A Qantas jet carrying 278 passengers from Sydney to Shanghai turns back after a weather radar malfunction on board.

Nov 29, 2008 - A Qantas jet serviced just days earlier and flying from Perth to Singapore has to turn back after the crew is forced to turn off one of its two engines when an engine oil warning light flashes. Qantas says inspections indicated a fault with the engine starter motor.

Dec 5, 2008 - A Qantas jet becomes bogged at Sydney airport as a towbar holding the aircraft fails and two of the jet's wheels become stuck in the grass beside the taxiway.

Dec 29, 2008 - A Qantas jet flying from Perth to Singapore is forced to return to Perth after the autopilot disconnects at 36,000 feet about 500km northwest of Perth. Air safety authorities say the circumstances were similar to the October incident over WA.

Jan 28, 2009 - An A330 defence aircraft carrying about 80 Australian personnel and supplies to the Middle East is forced to make an emergency landing in Darwin after fumes filled the cabin. Three people were hospitalised and later recovered.

June 9, 2009 - Qantas announces it has received no safety directives for its A330 fleet following the May 31 crash of an Air France A330-200 that killed all 228 people aboard in the Atlantic Ocean.

June 10, 2009 - A fire in the cockpit of a Jetstar A330-300 carrying 186 passengers from Japan to Australia forces the pilot to make an emergency safe landing in Guam.

June 22, 2009 - Thirteen people are injured when a Qantas A330-300 carrying 206 passengers strikes severe turbulence over Borneo on a flight from Hong Kong to Perth.

AAP

Isn't it lucky the media didn't report all the cases involving A330s which had passengers with explosive diarrhea, vomiting, IFE failures, and most importantly the continual cruel and unusual punishment passengers are forced to endure because of food supposedly created by Neil Perry!

[BuzzBox]

I assume all the various reports are similar to the one I read Qantas passenger hits roof in mid-air turbulence drama The inference I gleaned from this was that they were flying thru bad wx with the wx radar inop: see here
Quote:
Mr Whitehead said passengers were told the radar was not functioning "so the plane didn't see (the air pocket) and went straight into it".
and here
Quote:
"There was lightning everywhere ... obviously we were right in the middle of a storm or thunder but it was pretty severe.
What is QFs position on operating with the wx radar inop? I am curious as I saw a RTB by a Gulf carrier just yesterday due wx radar inop. Liability issues?

I would think it EXTREMELY UNLIKELY they were flying through an area of CBs without a functioning weather radar, despite what some passenger thought he was told. It's also very doubtful this incident was caused by CAT. They probably flew through the top of a CB that went undetected on the radar, the question is why? Radar not tilted down far enough perhaps??

[ferris]

I would think it EXTREMELY UNLIKELY they were flying through an area of CBs without a functioning weather radar,

Then, is it QF SOP that an inop wx radar is a no-go item?
Was the wx radar inop?

I expect question 1 is fairly straight forward. We may have to wait for the answer to Q2.

I am at a loss to understand why posters here are bagging the reporting. Aviation still captures peoples imagination, obviously, so events like this will be reported. Sloppy editing to put up a photo of any old QF jet, yes, but what do you expect pax to say when interviewed? "Air pocket" is a common layman term. I would be disturbed if Banga Smith from Boganville gets off and says "The pilot flying reduced to M.79 when we encountered clear air turbulence not indicated on the route forecast. Some internal fittings were dislodged during this period as SL freight moved. Services met us on arrival. The centre tank fuel gauge needs looking at, too."

[twiggs]

Originally Posted by ferris

I am at a loss to understand why posters here are bagging the reporting. Aviation still captures peoples imagination, obviously, so events like this will be reported. Sloppy editing to put up a photo of any old QF jet, yes, but what do you expect pax to say when interviewed? "Air pocket" is a common layman term. I would be disturbed if Banga Smith from Boganville gets off and says "The pilot flying reduced to M.79 when we encountered clear air turbulence not indicated on the route forecast. Some internal fittings were dislodged during this period as SL freight moved. Services met us on arrival. The centre tank fuel gauge needs looking at, too."

As am I Ferris.
In this case, the report is only repeating pax comments made after the event.
None of the report was the writer making incorrect interpretations of information at hand, like in some other news reports.
Whether anyone likes it or not, the A330 is under scrutiny now and any incident that occurs with one is newsworthy.

[GE90115BL2]

In the last week I've flown that route 4 times and each time we diverted up to 60 NM off track, no big deal. The CB's and larger convective clouds were quite clear on the Radar and we avoided them.

You do need to be very pro-active with the radar tilt, gain and range.
It is very easy to miss a small cell and for 5 to 10 seconds "run into a small isolated cloud top" by mistake. Most of us have been there and done it, it's just that on those occasions nobody was injured.

Just another reminder to be very careful whilst avoiding WX in IMC ( day or night )

[Quokka]

Some years ago riding Speedbird B744 jump seat into PER as we topped a rather small puffy white cloud on descent and several sharp bumps that followed...

Captain... turns to First Officer with a silent look of displeasure.

First Officer... "I didn't think that one was wet"

[jungle juice]

twiggs,
As usual you just don't get it do you?

it's not that the media report on aviation stories or that they report on any story at all.That is after all what they do.

The point is the way they report stories and you are backing them up by saying that they are accurate.

How do you know that the reporters accurately reported what the pax said?

Were you there?

The pic of a 737 when the aircraft was a A-330 is proof of that lack of accuracy.

Whether anyone likes it or not, the A330 is under scrutiny now and any incident that occurs with one is newsworthy.

if there is a problem with a particular aircraft then by all means report it but this is a story about air turbulence and the affect it has on aircraft and the people in it or are you suggesting that Boeing aircraft are not affected by turbulence?.

This as usual another example of media sensationalising something and playing on peoples fears.

[BuzzBox]

Then, is it QF SOP that an inop wx radar is a no-go item?
Was the wx radar inop?

I'm not familiar with QF procedures, HOWEVER, aircraft manufacturers' MELs normally state that before departure at least one wx radar system must be serviceable for flight through an area of forecast CB or potentially hazardous weather conditions. I doubt that QF procedures would be any less restrictive.

If a flight departed with only one serviceable wx radar system, I can't see any sane commander continuing through an area of forecast CB if the remaining system failed before entering that area.

I've no idea what the pax were actually told, but passenger statements and eyewitness reports are notoriously unreliable. Put media spin on top of that and most airline-related stories become complete crap.

[The Green Goblin]

I would assume that the flight crew may have issued an apology to the punters and explained that wx radar is not too good at detecting CAT.

Punters walk away hearing that the wx radar was not working and that is the reason why they encountered the CAT.

When you work in retail you realize how stupid people actually are

[blow.n.gasket]

You wouldn't have been serving journalist's now would you GG?

[The Green Goblin]

What are you insinuating Blow n Gasket?

[Fragnasty]

It's nothing to do with MELs and the like lads, it's legislated in the AIP, GEN 1.5, Section 4.

4. AIRBORNE WEATHER RADAR

4.1 IFR RPT and CHTR aircraft which are required to be crewed by
two or more pilots must be fitted with an approved airborne
weather radar system. Unpressurised turbine engined aircraft
with a maximum take‐off weight of not greater than 5,700KG and unpressurised piston engined aircraft are exempt from this
requirement.

4.2 Serviceability of Airborne Weather Radar

4.2.1 An aircraft which is required to be fitted with an airborne weather
radar system must not depart if the radar is unserviceable and
available forecasts indicate probability of thunderstorms or cloud
formations associated with severe turbulence anywhere along the
route to be flown, including the route to a planned alternate.

4.2.2 An aircraft which is required to be fitted with an airborne weather
radar system which becomes unserviceable during a flight may
continue that flight so long as the aircraft avoids penetration of any
cloud formation likely to be associated with severe turbulence.

So in layman's terms, the jet needed a working radar to depart, assuming there were thunderies forecast. If the radar broke during the trip, you can continue, but you've got to do your best to avoid dodgy looking clouds. Easier said than done on a pitch black night, especially if there's not much moonlight to help.

So when it all comes down to it, if you're in your seat, do the seatbelt up. If you're up searching for a G&T, just be wary that sometimes things might get bumpy. It is NOT rocket science!!!

[Blue Sky Baron]

Maybe we should position a Journo on every flight so that when anything goes wrong they are on the spot to accurately report it, they could even swipe the safety card so they have an accurate picture of what aircraft they are in!!

[Capt Fathom]

it's legislated in the AIP

I don't know that the AIP (Aeronautical Information Publication) is legislation? Although it usually mirrors it or refers to it!

Having said that, I could not find any info in the CAO's CAR's or CASR's regarding wx radar requirements!

If it's not there, it can only be covered by the Operator's own approved manuals, like the MEL !