QANTAS - Working on the A380
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The problems with service on the A380 are completely down to the inexperience of the crew involved. Fact.
Contrast the actions of management at Singapore Airlines with Qantas and you'll quickly realise why QF have problems.
SQ mandate that the crew on their flagship A380 have a minimum of 5 years experience [in the category they operate in]
Not meaning any disrespect to those working on it but the truth of the matter is that QF only had one requirement.
Cheap.
Contrast the actions of management at Singapore Airlines with Qantas and you'll quickly realise why QF have problems.
SQ mandate that the crew on their flagship A380 have a minimum of 5 years experience [in the category they operate in]
Not meaning any disrespect to those working on it but the truth of the matter is that QF only had one requirement.
Cheap.
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I have no idea if that 5 years minimum is correct ditch handle, but most of their A380 crew are as cheap as QCCA, so they have the luxury of being able to choose experienced and cheap.
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Did a London trip not so long ago with a FA that has a family member who is cabin crew for SQ.
They caught up for dinner in Singapore and this info came from the horses mouth.
Qantas had the opportunity to operate the A380 with experienced crew or at least a meaningful foundation of career FAs who could pass on experience, skills and culture to the new hires.
Management already had QCCA and yet, in typical QF fashion they were greedy and had to have everything.
I sleep well at night knowing that this decision is biting them on the arse.
They caught up for dinner in Singapore and this info came from the horses mouth.
Qantas had the opportunity to operate the A380 with experienced crew or at least a meaningful foundation of career FAs who could pass on experience, skills and culture to the new hires.
Management already had QCCA and yet, in typical QF fashion they were greedy and had to have everything.
I sleep well at night knowing that this decision is biting them on the arse.
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Of course QCCA and the terms and conditions QF offered to existing QAL crew going to the A380 were negotiated long before there were signs of an economic down turn.
Good loads and high satisfaction eh?? Really?
I guess it must all be good then and the comments made to me by passengers who've flown on it must all be fabrications.......
Good loads and high satisfaction eh?? Really?
I guess it must all be good then and the comments made to me by passengers who've flown on it must all be fabrications.......
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A_B_P,Let's be realistic here.The loads on the A380 have nothing to do with the crew as they are all about everyone wanting to fly on the latest,biggest & shiniest aircraft.
With all the extra crew you would want and expect to see good feedback but that is not always the case and the excessive meal service times have something to do with that.
I wonder if SIA and EK are having the same problems?
By the way the company has always used the cheapest option with crew and that ha happened years before this economic downturn.Even if this latest mess not happened the company would still use the cheapest crew no matter how little experience they had.
If they can get even cheaper crew or anything else they will again at some point in the future regardless of the economic situation.
it's good to see your enthusiasm and optimism but when you've been flying with us for 20 or more years I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say.
With all the extra crew you would want and expect to see good feedback but that is not always the case and the excessive meal service times have something to do with that.
I wonder if SIA and EK are having the same problems?
By the way the company has always used the cheapest option with crew and that ha happened years before this economic downturn.Even if this latest mess not happened the company would still use the cheapest crew no matter how little experience they had.
If they can get even cheaper crew or anything else they will again at some point in the future regardless of the economic situation.
it's good to see your enthusiasm and optimism but when you've been flying with us for 20 or more years I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say.
As a matter of interest had a good chat to some of the SQ FAs on a A380 trip to LHR lastyear. At SQ all the crew that fly on the A380 and the A340-500 trips are 'selected' to do it and have no choice in bidding. Once they get put on either thats all they do. They were enjoying the A380 but were not loving the work - back then it was only SYD,NRT and LHR. I thought the service was excellent but in the galley the FA said that they were all still feeling their way with the service etc - they were all very happy when I pointed out from a pax point of view you certainly couldn't tell.
I was explaining to her how QF worked with different wages/bases etc and most of them were not aware of it and were quite suprised. SQ is all SIN based, all on same wages - and contrary to some rumours did not share hotel rooms. They are on about $45k SIN bucks - not huge but certainly not 'slave' wages that some seem to think they are on, especially these days getting to be fairly similar to QCCA etc. Sure they burn through them and they are mostly all young - but tell me thats not the intention of australian carriers now with the wages and conditions on offer here too ! Difference seems to be that whilst they are there they have the meet the high standard or they are gone.
One thing that SQ beats QF on is 'consistancy' to FA conduct, whilst you can get a fantastic flight on QF you can get some crap ones as well - yet to have anything on SQ that wasn't short of excellent. The FAs aren't gushy or all over you, but deliver the services quickly effeciently and with no fuss.
I was explaining to her how QF worked with different wages/bases etc and most of them were not aware of it and were quite suprised. SQ is all SIN based, all on same wages - and contrary to some rumours did not share hotel rooms. They are on about $45k SIN bucks - not huge but certainly not 'slave' wages that some seem to think they are on, especially these days getting to be fairly similar to QCCA etc. Sure they burn through them and they are mostly all young - but tell me thats not the intention of australian carriers now with the wages and conditions on offer here too ! Difference seems to be that whilst they are there they have the meet the high standard or they are gone.
One thing that SQ beats QF on is 'consistancy' to FA conduct, whilst you can get a fantastic flight on QF you can get some crap ones as well - yet to have anything on SQ that wasn't short of excellent. The FAs aren't gushy or all over you, but deliver the services quickly effeciently and with no fuss.
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Puff
Your point is......?
This word "consistency" gets bandied around a lot but what does it mean?
Is it robotic service?Is it clones all looking the same,all smiling the same?
All providing the same food?.
When travelling I dont care about much except on time departure,cabin temperature,when the lights are switched off and whether or not the passenger sitting next to me is a blabbermouth or smells.The rest I can put up with.Consistency is portable....I bring it with me
The crew dont design the aircraft or the IFE or the seats.They are not responsible for a late departure...so why complain to them?
Its transport..pure and simple...not a 5 star restaurant or hotel.
Its cheaper to fly now than it has ever been.
I dont want much and dont expect much so I am never disappointed.
The best aircraft to fly for me if I do have a choice is the Boeing 777.
The A380 is...well...a flying barn...too big and soul less
This word "consistency" gets bandied around a lot but what does it mean?
Is it robotic service?Is it clones all looking the same,all smiling the same?
All providing the same food?.
When travelling I dont care about much except on time departure,cabin temperature,when the lights are switched off and whether or not the passenger sitting next to me is a blabbermouth or smells.The rest I can put up with.Consistency is portable....I bring it with me
The crew dont design the aircraft or the IFE or the seats.They are not responsible for a late departure...so why complain to them?
Its transport..pure and simple...not a 5 star restaurant or hotel.
Its cheaper to fly now than it has ever been.
I dont want much and dont expect much so I am never disappointed.
The best aircraft to fly for me if I do have a choice is the Boeing 777.
The A380 is...well...a flying barn...too big and soul less
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Thanks A380-800 driver....
So basically EK has 26 Cabin Crew compared to 22 for QF...I'm sure the shower attendants do help out in some other way and not just stand around waiting to clean the showers...
So basically EK has 26 Cabin Crew compared to 22 for QF...I'm sure the shower attendants do help out in some other way and not just stand around waiting to clean the showers...
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Sorry Lobe but the shower attendants only do that. They stand at the top of the front stairs the whole time (or sit on them), can't see anything except the steep stairs and are bored as bat5hit for much of a long hop. Often only one will be on deck, the other having a kip.
They are in a different uniform to the F/As and do not do any F/A duties. They don't even re-stock the drinks in the P/C 'social area' at the top of the stairs. They just make sure the shower/loo rooms are tickety-boo after every visit by a punter. So the bog-rolls are always perfect, the showers dried, the amenities re-stocked and presented, etc. after every punter visit or turbulence event.
They are in a different uniform to the F/As and do not do any F/A duties. They don't even re-stock the drinks in the P/C 'social area' at the top of the stairs. They just make sure the shower/loo rooms are tickety-boo after every visit by a punter. So the bog-rolls are always perfect, the showers dried, the amenities re-stocked and presented, etc. after every punter visit or turbulence event.
Aren't all the EK 380s grounded?
Something to do with a fuel system design problem?
You are sure to correct me if I'm wrong
Something to do with a fuel system design problem?
You are sure to correct me if I'm wrong
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Thanks for that Taildragger...
Can you imagine QF putting 2 people on board with nothing to do except that....
If it was QF they would have a beeper and be doing a bar service and a hot chocolate service ..with a busy sign on the showers until they could get back...
By the way do EK cabin crew share rooms?
Can you imagine QF putting 2 people on board with nothing to do except that....
If it was QF they would have a beeper and be doing a bar service and a hot chocolate service ..with a busy sign on the showers until they could get back...
By the way do EK cabin crew share rooms?
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Puff,
Surely you are not serious, there is an old joke about Qantas or BA attendants, at least you get more 'Boilers' in the cabin and that sums it up. If you are comparing QF service to SQ you are sadly mistaken, there is no comparison, SQ economy is better than QF business class!
QF have no idea about service, they used when they were a real airline but not now they are crap on par with the likes of Ryan Air etc.
Surely you are not serious, there is an old joke about Qantas or BA attendants, at least you get more 'Boilers' in the cabin and that sums it up. If you are comparing QF service to SQ you are sadly mistaken, there is no comparison, SQ economy is better than QF business class!
QF have no idea about service, they used when they were a real airline but not now they are crap on par with the likes of Ryan Air etc.
argus - simply bringing up some points re the A380 with someone other than QF.
And you ask about consistancy - consistancy was one word that was bought up about why McDonalds is so successful - sure it's crap food but you know what your going to get in Bondi or Paris. Thats exactly why SQ is successful, not because it's like McDonalds, but they always offer the same 'standard'. QF is like a corner fish shop - could be an excellent experience or you could end up with food poisioning!
I agree - flying is cheap and to be honest I don't care that much about who or where I travel with - as long as it gets me where it says on the ticket - BUT these days the passengers(us) have a BIG choice of airlines and service standards - if 2 airlines have the same airfare who are you going to go with - the one with the better reputation!
As for the other - A380 IMHO pisses over the 777 to ride on - to me there is nothing that amazing about the 777 over a 767 or a 747. A380 is just so much quieter it's out of this world compared to anything made by Boeing.
Orangputi - I guess I was trying not to trash QF too badly because I know some FAs at QF that are some of the better ones!
And you ask about consistancy - consistancy was one word that was bought up about why McDonalds is so successful - sure it's crap food but you know what your going to get in Bondi or Paris. Thats exactly why SQ is successful, not because it's like McDonalds, but they always offer the same 'standard'. QF is like a corner fish shop - could be an excellent experience or you could end up with food poisioning!
I agree - flying is cheap and to be honest I don't care that much about who or where I travel with - as long as it gets me where it says on the ticket - BUT these days the passengers(us) have a BIG choice of airlines and service standards - if 2 airlines have the same airfare who are you going to go with - the one with the better reputation!
As for the other - A380 IMHO pisses over the 777 to ride on - to me there is nothing that amazing about the 777 over a 767 or a 747. A380 is just so much quieter it's out of this world compared to anything made by Boeing.
Orangputi - I guess I was trying not to trash QF too badly because I know some FAs at QF that are some of the better ones!
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Obviously you have a kebaya fetish.
(not that there is anything wrong with that)
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I was lucky enough to travel with 150 others (mostly in J and W class) SYD AKL SYD on Oscar Quebec Alpha (Miss Nancy) on QFs first ever International passenger flight. No - it was NOT the MEL LAX flight - it was QF6601 on 09OCT!
The flight and crew were remarkable, but we were the test bed.
All was great on the outbound, but I was in 25K at the rear of the upper deck on the return and premium Y just behind me were through a full meal service before they got back to where I was.
That in itself was not a problem, but the temperature of the meal was. It was nice, and edible but they had a load of us freeloaders onboard for just that reason - to look for constructive criticism. We would have been the least critical load they had ever flown, but we were there to help them and tried to. It all comes down to our premium passengers experience ande they were more than receptive.
Overall, the crew right to the tech guys including the skipper who came back to chat and the cabin crew who were so proud of their aeroplane they could burst were a leap back to the introduction of the 727 and the DC9. Totally refreshing.
The aeroplane is wonderful-so quiet, and unsticks like it is no effort at all. I love the 744, DC10 and 767 but I brought my 2nd A380 QF model home and she sits in front of the wine rack next to my 300ZX model. They have a lot in common.
Go you good A380 crew guys and girls. You are the A team. They love their big ladies and it shows. There is hope for the industry.
If you are travelling J class and want to know where to be allocated, call the Loco Bloko. If you didn't book through me I might even check what is left in the better parts of the cabin for you - after trying to pirate your corporate business!!
If you booked through Blight Centre, the hard thing will be getting the spotty Uni Student to figure out how to get into the seat plan.
Serves you right!
Best all
EWL
The flight and crew were remarkable, but we were the test bed.
All was great on the outbound, but I was in 25K at the rear of the upper deck on the return and premium Y just behind me were through a full meal service before they got back to where I was.
That in itself was not a problem, but the temperature of the meal was. It was nice, and edible but they had a load of us freeloaders onboard for just that reason - to look for constructive criticism. We would have been the least critical load they had ever flown, but we were there to help them and tried to. It all comes down to our premium passengers experience ande they were more than receptive.
Overall, the crew right to the tech guys including the skipper who came back to chat and the cabin crew who were so proud of their aeroplane they could burst were a leap back to the introduction of the 727 and the DC9. Totally refreshing.
The aeroplane is wonderful-so quiet, and unsticks like it is no effort at all. I love the 744, DC10 and 767 but I brought my 2nd A380 QF model home and she sits in front of the wine rack next to my 300ZX model. They have a lot in common.
Go you good A380 crew guys and girls. You are the A team. They love their big ladies and it shows. There is hope for the industry.
If you are travelling J class and want to know where to be allocated, call the Loco Bloko. If you didn't book through me I might even check what is left in the better parts of the cabin for you - after trying to pirate your corporate business!!
If you booked through Blight Centre, the hard thing will be getting the spotty Uni Student to figure out how to get into the seat plan.
Serves you right!Best all
EWL
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No Disrespect but this is a pilots forum not a cabin crew forum,
OK no worries lets remember SQ is the first airline to have major fatalities on a 744 ever compared to any other airline. EVER!!!(Due to crew error) Its all about perspective! hehe
If you are comparing QF service to SQ you are sadly mistaken, there is no comparison, SQ economy is better than QF business class!
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Angle, you are a weirdo !
As for those who are 'proud' to work on the A380 --> are you proud to be on such crap conditions? I flew with a QCCA yesterday who was quite up front in telling me that "we will out number you in the next EBA, you will lose it all"
I suggested that the QCCA should try and better their conditions in the next EBA, rather than try and take things off others.I just got a nasty glare in response.
Management have got what they wanted --> they got cheap labour,and now there is no service,the same QCCA told me "I dont get paid enough to do water runs".
Thanks to our management for hiring such a disengaged,f*cked up new workforce.I personally cant wait till they all go to the A380.I would happily go back to doing nothing but Jobergs,if it means not flying with QCCA trash again.
As for those who are 'proud' to work on the A380 --> are you proud to be on such crap conditions? I flew with a QCCA yesterday who was quite up front in telling me that "we will out number you in the next EBA, you will lose it all"
I suggested that the QCCA should try and better their conditions in the next EBA, rather than try and take things off others.I just got a nasty glare in response.
Management have got what they wanted --> they got cheap labour,and now there is no service,the same QCCA told me "I dont get paid enough to do water runs".
Thanks to our management for hiring such a disengaged,f*cked up new workforce.I personally cant wait till they all go to the A380.I would happily go back to doing nothing but Jobergs,if it means not flying with QCCA trash again.
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Originally posted by Angle of attack
The old broken record syndrome again.
No disrespect Angle of Attack but you seem to have problems with your eyesight,I hope you're not really a pilot.
The flight deck is but one part of aviation not the be all and end all.
If you don't want to read any threads about cabin crew then don't open them.There are many threads pertaining to pilots to keep you busy.
No Disrespect but this is a pilots forum not a cabin crew forum,
No disrespect Angle of Attack but you seem to have problems with your eyesight,I hope you're not really a pilot.
An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.
If you don't want to read any threads about cabin crew then don't open them.There are many threads pertaining to pilots to keep you busy.