Layoffs at REX- Cadets to go first?!
Like most things Wal', there's good and bad, rumour, but often an element of truth, and things sometimes being blown out of proportion.
Are REX pilots being paid up to 20% below industry standard? Absolutely!
Are the pilots p!ssed off about that? You betcha!
Is it rule by fear? probably a little tougher to answer, but I'll try. Essentially the Check and training has remained unchanged, but the knife at checks is definitely a lot sharper. In addition there are now new elements (Check focus items) that are assesed. If the pilot(s) under check fail to answer these proficiently then they fail! REX are reacting to a nervous regulator in this regard. Are REX pilots being given the additional training required to meet this new level of scrutiny. Definitely not! This being a function of a chronic lack of resources. Needless to say, many now go into these checks with a higher level of trepidation than in the past. Quite often this is enough to push some over the edge. Knowledge, (and in this case practice) does dispell fear. The opposite may go some way to explaining the elevated failure rate we are now seeing?
As far as continueing to interview after the Chairman has stated publicly that jobs will go? That doesn't surprise me one little bit. Some 15 years ago Impulse airlines interviewed approx 200 pilots Australia wide for some 20 positions, and do you know why? Because they could! The fact that a large proportion of those candidates were well qualified and had spent considerable time and money to attend, was of no concern for those characters, and why should REX be any different. Just look at the goings on across the road at QFLink!
Are REX pilots being paid up to 20% below industry standard? Absolutely!
Are the pilots p!ssed off about that? You betcha!
Is it rule by fear? probably a little tougher to answer, but I'll try. Essentially the Check and training has remained unchanged, but the knife at checks is definitely a lot sharper. In addition there are now new elements (Check focus items) that are assesed. If the pilot(s) under check fail to answer these proficiently then they fail! REX are reacting to a nervous regulator in this regard. Are REX pilots being given the additional training required to meet this new level of scrutiny. Definitely not! This being a function of a chronic lack of resources. Needless to say, many now go into these checks with a higher level of trepidation than in the past. Quite often this is enough to push some over the edge. Knowledge, (and in this case practice) does dispell fear. The opposite may go some way to explaining the elevated failure rate we are now seeing?
As far as continueing to interview after the Chairman has stated publicly that jobs will go? That doesn't surprise me one little bit. Some 15 years ago Impulse airlines interviewed approx 200 pilots Australia wide for some 20 positions, and do you know why? Because they could! The fact that a large proportion of those candidates were well qualified and had spent considerable time and money to attend, was of no concern for those characters, and why should REX be any different. Just look at the goings on across the road at QFLink!
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 18th Jan 2009 at 05:59.
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Gee, as if we didn't see this coming from the almighty LKH. He will say and do anything to avoid giving flightcrew the pay rise and conditions they deserve...is it a coincidence that the EBA is still up in the air? It's clear he can't sack ground or ops staff as he barely employes enough staff to fill the positions required to run the airline on the ground as it is.
I've bought up this point in the past...but as it's valid I'll say it again. Does LKH know how much $$$ is being flushed down the dunny (if your reading this LKH, thats Aussie for toilet) by the head of (I use this next word very losely) training and checking?? One very insecure and disturbed ego is responsible for costing the company hundreds of thousands of $$ per year.
I'd love to know how much rex has forked out over the past couple of years in:
training costs related with replacing experienced captains that until he got in control were going to stay at rex for life,
training costs related with "re-training" pilots for failing checks because they went 4kg out of tolerance with the fuel embalance when OEI, and similar pathetic discrepencies,
costs related with replacing perfectly competent check and trainers with "captain taking over's" that are more nervous in the left hand seat of the Saab than a FA flying with Capt No-experience and FO Cadet
when there are a couple of clouds in the sky.
And while im at it, Mr head of check and training...the whole company knows that after you put in a pathetic effort in the sim, the spineless checker gave you your own assesment form to fill in...hahahahaha no suprise that you passed yourself...nice way to get respect from the troops.
LKH...if you can't afford to run an airline, then don't. Sell up and do something else. Rex flightcrew deserve a healthy pay rise and impoved conditions as you have built up a little fortune on the backs of these hard working guys and girls. maybe instead of paying cash for your planes, you should start parting with some cash for your flightcrew.
I've bought up this point in the past...but as it's valid I'll say it again. Does LKH know how much $$$ is being flushed down the dunny (if your reading this LKH, thats Aussie for toilet) by the head of (I use this next word very losely) training and checking?? One very insecure and disturbed ego is responsible for costing the company hundreds of thousands of $$ per year.
I'd love to know how much rex has forked out over the past couple of years in:
training costs related with replacing experienced captains that until he got in control were going to stay at rex for life,
training costs related with "re-training" pilots for failing checks because they went 4kg out of tolerance with the fuel embalance when OEI, and similar pathetic discrepencies,
costs related with replacing perfectly competent check and trainers with "captain taking over's" that are more nervous in the left hand seat of the Saab than a FA flying with Capt No-experience and FO Cadet
when there are a couple of clouds in the sky.And while im at it, Mr head of check and training...the whole company knows that after you put in a pathetic effort in the sim, the spineless checker gave you your own assesment form to fill in...hahahahaha no suprise that you passed yourself...nice way to get respect from the troops.
LKH...if you can't afford to run an airline, then don't. Sell up and do something else. Rex flightcrew deserve a healthy pay rise and impoved conditions as you have built up a little fortune on the backs of these hard working guys and girls. maybe instead of paying cash for your planes, you should start parting with some cash for your flightcrew.
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c'mon guys please...........
this is nothing more than scare tactics from that little pice of ****e from singers....
there will be no sackings, just a very sub-standard eba voted up by scared fo's.....
CH, NH, JD and co hang your heads in shame......you have all allowed this to happen........
fark i'm glad i left that 2 bit op when i did!!
this is nothing more than scare tactics from that little pice of ****e from singers....
there will be no sackings, just a very sub-standard eba voted up by scared fo's.....
CH, NH, JD and co hang your heads in shame......you have all allowed this to happen........
fark i'm glad i left that 2 bit op when i did!!
Gidday Mudflat. Don't hold back mate, say what you really think. All jokes aside though, the frustration is palatable.
I don't know Muff'? My money is on at least 10, mabye 20! I've seen it before. The arrogant belief that "we will always get pilots" is alive and well in the hallowed halls at REX. It's this pervading mindset that has seen the massive disruption to a once proud organisation.
If retrenchments don't happen, nobody will be happier than me (you see I've been there myself, several times!!), and I will gladly admit my error. However, I reckon they will go ahead, if for nothing else than as a warning to the others!
I don't know Muff'? My money is on at least 10, mabye 20! I've seen it before. The arrogant belief that "we will always get pilots" is alive and well in the hallowed halls at REX. It's this pervading mindset that has seen the massive disruption to a once proud organisation.
If retrenchments don't happen, nobody will be happier than me (you see I've been there myself, several times!!), and I will gladly admit my error. However, I reckon they will go ahead, if for nothing else than as a warning to the others!
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Let me get this right...
The long term pilots at Rex want more money.
So to prevent paying it, they are threatening job cuts.
These job cuts will come from the bottom of the seniority pile, which is all their cadets and South Effrican imports anyway.
The ones who actually have a spine will not be the ones losing their jobs.
Buy 6 glass cockpit aircraft .... very expensive.
Start a flying academy .... very expensive.
Give scholarships and partial scholarships to students .... very expensive.
Pay for South Effrican imports to move to Australia .... very expensive.
Then retrench them all anyway because you've got too many!!!!!
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHEAPER TO JUST PAY A BIT MORE TO THE PILOTS YOU ALREADY HAD YOU
IDIOT.
What an unbelievable waste of time, effort and money for the sake of one rich man's pride. He will never, ever be big enough to admit he was wrong.
If it's not pilot shortage, it's pilot excess. Or fuel prices. Or world economic crisis. Or Aussie dollar falling so engine maintenance costs "spiralling". There will always been an excuse so they can paint a dark scary picture. Retrenchments is just another fear tool that the majority are not buying.
SHOW US THE MONEY.
The long term pilots at Rex want more money.
So to prevent paying it, they are threatening job cuts.
These job cuts will come from the bottom of the seniority pile, which is all their cadets and South Effrican imports anyway.
The ones who actually have a spine will not be the ones losing their jobs.
Buy 6 glass cockpit aircraft .... very expensive.
Start a flying academy .... very expensive.
Give scholarships and partial scholarships to students .... very expensive.
Pay for South Effrican imports to move to Australia .... very expensive.
Then retrench them all anyway because you've got too many!!!!!
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHEAPER TO JUST PAY A BIT MORE TO THE PILOTS YOU ALREADY HAD YOU
IDIOT.What an unbelievable waste of time, effort and money for the sake of one rich man's pride. He will never, ever be big enough to admit he was wrong.
If it's not pilot shortage, it's pilot excess. Or fuel prices. Or world economic crisis. Or Aussie dollar falling so engine maintenance costs "spiralling". There will always been an excuse so they can paint a dark scary picture. Retrenchments is just another fear tool that the majority are not buying.
SHOW US THE MONEY.
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It is has definitely got to be a scare tactic........... and for all you relatively new F/O's on the list or cadets..... don't be suckered into the fear tactics! We have fought for way too long to have you all cave in and vote for a crappy EBA. (when it comes along again).
This is exactly what LKH wants........ lets not give it to the bastard!
This is exactly what LKH wants........ lets not give it to the bastard!
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Fk it... Does anyone really care anymore? We have been being painted a ****ty picture for months now even when things were going well. We have been lied to after accepting the last eba. Management give directions to screw us over as much as possible, and they can’t even cough up a wage comparable with CPI. So why give a flying Fk about them, the company, or anything. Honestly, 150%, I'll give you my 5% and 5 cents worth! After all thats all you think i'm worth.
k it... Does anyone really care anymore? We have been being painted a ****ty picture for months now even when things were going well. We have been lied to after accepting the last eba. Management give directions to screw us over as much as possible, and they can’t even cough up a wage comparable with CPI. So why give a flying Fk about them, the company, or anything. Honestly, 150%, I'll give you my 5% and 5 cents worth! After all thats all you think i'm worth.
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Scare Tactics
Does he (LKH) seriously expect people to buy into his garbage??? 
To firstly clear the matter of retrenchments if it ever came to that I believe it would be last on first off situation. I think we will see something similiar with Pelair as we did with AirLink. The metro runs will be scaled back (aircraft sold) and freight runs profitable for a much smaller Pelair Saab fleet will continue. This will be where retrenchments, if any, occur.
With the Australian aviation industry forecast (take it as you may) set to pick up again over the next 6 to 12 month period LKH would be mad to retrench Rex Saab tech crew. It has been mentioned here of the full ranks, some 262 pilots. Looking closely at this list with the current Captain shortage, particularly in Sydney, there are really only enough command eligible F/Os to see out the next 12 to 18 months. This of course can be increased by reducing the Pelair operation and bringing it closer to the Rex one.
With the schedule now resuming to its normal capacity we should start to hear more and more from crewing how hard they have to work to crew uncrewed sectors on a day to day basis.
Off Topic: Pilot's EBA Negotiations
I believe the 9x3x3 suggested split of 15% over 3 years is half way there in the first year. It needs to be more in line with the initial claim made; ie the $82 - 100K for command base salary.
I would like to see a claim made of at least 17% x 2.5% x 2.5% with the following increases linked to CPI. ie 2.5% or CPI whichever is greater. It is a sceaming hole (IMHO) in our EBA that it is not linked to CPI. With the ridiculous extension payments the company has put on the table which fall way short and the casual day payments not much better than they are now I believe we must seek this base increase.
You need to understand the arrogant culture of the man we are dealing with, he will do anything to save face as we have and are seeing. I for one will not be bullied, tricked and scared into voting for a lesser EBA than deserved. Perhaps if LKH can not stand the heat in this Australian kitchen then he should leave!
To firstly clear the matter of retrenchments if it ever came to that I believe it would be last on first off situation. I think we will see something similiar with Pelair as we did with AirLink. The metro runs will be scaled back (aircraft sold) and freight runs profitable for a much smaller Pelair Saab fleet will continue. This will be where retrenchments, if any, occur.
With the Australian aviation industry forecast (take it as you may) set to pick up again over the next 6 to 12 month period LKH would be mad to retrench Rex Saab tech crew. It has been mentioned here of the full ranks, some 262 pilots. Looking closely at this list with the current Captain shortage, particularly in Sydney, there are really only enough command eligible F/Os to see out the next 12 to 18 months. This of course can be increased by reducing the Pelair operation and bringing it closer to the Rex one.
With the schedule now resuming to its normal capacity we should start to hear more and more from crewing how hard they have to work to crew uncrewed sectors on a day to day basis.
Off Topic: Pilot's EBA Negotiations
I believe the 9x3x3 suggested split of 15% over 3 years is half way there in the first year. It needs to be more in line with the initial claim made; ie the $82 - 100K for command base salary.
I would like to see a claim made of at least 17% x 2.5% x 2.5% with the following increases linked to CPI. ie 2.5% or CPI whichever is greater. It is a sceaming hole (IMHO) in our EBA that it is not linked to CPI. With the ridiculous extension payments the company has put on the table which fall way short and the casual day payments not much better than they are now I believe we must seek this base increase.
You need to understand the arrogant culture of the man we are dealing with, he will do anything to save face as we have and are seeing. I for one will not be bullied, tricked and scared into voting for a lesser EBA than deserved. Perhaps if LKH can not stand the heat in this Australian kitchen then he should leave!
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"...last on, first off"
.......don't count on your seniority kids, it would be cheaper to drop 25 FO's (not Cadets, he has invested in these) and 25 captains (no downtraining costs). Individual performance may be considered -remember the "company requirements" clause?
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maybe the cadets are not coming to a suitable standard and the company will cut their loses instead of spending massive amounts of money training to get these guys to a safe level...
remember, ask NH, the saab is as close to the space shuttle as you can get!!
remember, ask NH, the saab is as close to the space shuttle as you can get!!
Gidday strut'.
I Hear what you are saying. In fact the original EBA as presented to the pilot group back in 02' had all references to seniority removed!
The Hazelton pilot group identified this and other lttle "nasties" and by voting no, forced a more equitable change. One of which was the reinstatement of seniority. The "needs of the company" clause was inserted by management as a sort of "saftey" net by which they could do pretty much what they want if necessary. Or so they thought.
The problem is, this ability to "do as we please" so to speak has been effectively removed due to precedent. Now nothing would surprise me, but it would be a foolish management indeed if they attempted to try that one on, just to save a few bucks. To attempt to justify the retrenchment of a senior pilot over a more junior one, because the junior pilot is paid less, would certainly raise a few eyebrows in the IRC to say the least. Hell, the payout of the senior Pilot's entitlements alone would destroy any such arguement in that area. As well as that, the retrenched pilot retains his/her seniority position for at least 2 years.
More grief than it would be worth!
I Hear what you are saying. In fact the original EBA as presented to the pilot group back in 02' had all references to seniority removed!
The Hazelton pilot group identified this and other lttle "nasties" and by voting no, forced a more equitable change. One of which was the reinstatement of seniority. The "needs of the company" clause was inserted by management as a sort of "saftey" net by which they could do pretty much what they want if necessary. Or so they thought.
The problem is, this ability to "do as we please" so to speak has been effectively removed due to precedent. Now nothing would surprise me, but it would be a foolish management indeed if they attempted to try that one on, just to save a few bucks. To attempt to justify the retrenchment of a senior pilot over a more junior one, because the junior pilot is paid less, would certainly raise a few eyebrows in the IRC to say the least. Hell, the payout of the senior Pilot's entitlements alone would destroy any such arguement in that area. As well as that, the retrenched pilot retains his/her seniority position for at least 2 years.
More grief than it would be worth!
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Krusty,
Can you please explain what it means when you say a retrenched pilot will retain their seniority for 2 years? If they are no longer with the company how can this be important?
Thanks.
Can you please explain what it means when you say a retrenched pilot will retain their seniority for 2 years? If they are no longer with the company how can this be important?
Thanks.
Bottums Up
pjam, under past industrial law, retrenched pilots had first refusal on positions with the employer, for periods of up to 3 years, or until they knock back an offer.
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Redundancy
Read your EBA gent's....5 years.
38.5 Re-employment (if you are really that keen!!!!)
38.5.1 A pilot whose service is terminated due to redundancy or who terminates service whilst under notice of termination due to redundancy in order to take up alternative duties as a pilot will maintain their right for re-employment with the Employer for five (5) years or until offered re-employment, which is subsequently rejected by the pilot, whichever occurs first....
38.5.2 A pilot shall retain their relative position in the seniority list for the purposes of access to re-employment under clause 38.5.1
On another note.....
It is indeed a shame that the global economy is in turmoil and redundancies are being seen world wide across all industries but I see it as an even bigger shame if we do not act as a pilot body to increase our base salary. The sacrifices made by staff across the board since the merging of the two companies to build a strong viable airline are over due to be recognised by the company.
What do you think will be LKH's story 3 years down the track from now at the next EBA if we decide to defer any decent claim till then....crying poor yet again with different reasons. Seen it before, seeing it now and of course we'll see it again!
I still believe now is still the time to act on our low base. We do however need to be careful in our claims to limit these threatened redundancies. We all know a certain Singaporean will cut his nose off to spite his face; but won't we need the crew to move back into QLD!!!! Thoughts?
Interesting links RE: Maca*r demise....
ABC
ASIC
38.5 Re-employment (if you are really that keen!!!!)
38.5.1 A pilot whose service is terminated due to redundancy or who terminates service whilst under notice of termination due to redundancy in order to take up alternative duties as a pilot will maintain their right for re-employment with the Employer for five (5) years or until offered re-employment, which is subsequently rejected by the pilot, whichever occurs first....
38.5.2 A pilot shall retain their relative position in the seniority list for the purposes of access to re-employment under clause 38.5.1
On another note.....
It is indeed a shame that the global economy is in turmoil and redundancies are being seen world wide across all industries but I see it as an even bigger shame if we do not act as a pilot body to increase our base salary. The sacrifices made by staff across the board since the merging of the two companies to build a strong viable airline are over due to be recognised by the company.
What do you think will be LKH's story 3 years down the track from now at the next EBA if we decide to defer any decent claim till then....crying poor yet again with different reasons. Seen it before, seeing it now and of course we'll see it again!
I still believe now is still the time to act on our low base. We do however need to be careful in our claims to limit these threatened redundancies. We all know a certain Singaporean will cut his nose off to spite his face; but won't we need the crew to move back into QLD!!!! Thoughts?
Interesting links RE: Maca*r demise....
ABC
ASIC