Qantas 747's damaged at Avalon . . .
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Yep, at VB we extend the flaps to takeoff setting as the first item of the after start scan, as soon as the last engine is started. At the end of that scan the recall is checked then the engineer is bade farewell.
The Eastern part of DJ does it a little different, setting the flap when the dispatch signal is received from the gingerbeer.
Perversely the difference is due to fear of banging a Powerpush, even though PB use them at only one small port and VB use them at 6 or more ports. Must be something someone brought from JetConnect.
The Eastern part of DJ does it a little different, setting the flap when the dispatch signal is received from the gingerbeer.
Perversely the difference is due to fear of banging a Powerpush, even though PB use them at only one small port and VB use them at 6 or more ports. Must be something someone brought from JetConnect.
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nz1009
In the domestic arena in Oz flaps/slats are usually extended whilst the engineer is still hooked up.I always look but there is no specific instruction to check for this.Tech crew just look at the lights.
Some airlines dont use tech trained dispatch people so could go un-noticed.Its an unusual event in any case .
Some airlines dont use tech trained dispatch people so could go un-noticed.Its an unusual event in any case .
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Remember the oz jet landing incident,similar circumstances and they were lucky to get back on the ground.Well done to the the ground engineer who spotted the the u/s krueger flap.
Evertonian
Hate the crap the media has with Qantas,
Qantas this and Qantas that, They just need to spend a day with another airline !!!
Qantas this and Qantas that, They just need to spend a day with another airline !!!
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Many many years ago when China airlines / Air China (If my memory serves) flew the 747SP, The crew would ask the engineer to physically check and confirm the flaps were extended before disconnect.
Never been an official procedure in QF to my knowledge to inform the techies of confirmation of flap extension.
Never been an official procedure in QF to my knowledge to inform the techies of confirmation of flap extension.
Last edited by hadagutfull; 24th Nov 2008 at 12:03. Reason: spelling
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Thanks for the replies. From what I can gather, a member of the tech crew does a walk around when the slats/flaps are stowed, the aircraft is eventually pushed back, engines started, wings totally reconfigured for flight either before or shortly after the ground engineer disconnects (if thats what dispatched means). However, even if the wings are reconfigured while the ground engineer is still connected, checking them is not an item on their checklist. So it was just through luck, rather than good procedures, that in this case the problem was detected prior to take-off.
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Keg,
The Aircraft I flew had the flaps run out and in while a member of the crew was outside doing a walk around inspection and it was a co-ordinated task to check flaps, ailerons, rudders, landing and taxi lights for each walk around. We then taxi'd with the flaps in the take off position. One of the reasons for this is that the flaps in the take off position also assisted emergency egress from the overwing exits.
My current aircraft deploys the flaps to the take off position after engine start, which can be just before or after the engineer disconnects depending on the speed of things. The exception to this is if operating in cold weather ops where the flaps are extended at the holding point, due slush etc.
Cheers
The Aircraft I flew had the flaps run out and in while a member of the crew was outside doing a walk around inspection and it was a co-ordinated task to check flaps, ailerons, rudders, landing and taxi lights for each walk around. We then taxi'd with the flaps in the take off position. One of the reasons for this is that the flaps in the take off position also assisted emergency egress from the overwing exits.
My current aircraft deploys the flaps to the take off position after engine start, which can be just before or after the engineer disconnects depending on the speed of things. The exception to this is if operating in cold weather ops where the flaps are extended at the holding point, due slush etc.
Cheers
Last edited by Agony; 24th Nov 2008 at 22:18.
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get over it ....these things happen with older aircraft do we want the engineer to stay hooked up till the aircraft gets airbourne so he ....or she can see something thats not right and tell the crew....get real if its not right the flt deck indications will tell them...on later aircraft lets all do our jobs correctly ............i sometimes live in the past but we all should move forward....aircraft have so should we......
So it was just through luck, rather than good procedures, that in this case the problem was detected prior to take-off.
NZ1009, sounds like you are looking really really hard to find a negative view of this....total of two posts...pretty much zero knowledge of operations.......not a journo are you? If not I apologize for the inference and welcome to PPRUNE, how long have you been interested in aviation? What sort of licence do you have? Do you aspire to the airlines or have you just become interested in this push-back because it caught your eye?
Regards, Framer.
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ojk ojm towing damage
Hi All
qf lame in flight deck;
qf lame driving tug;
forstaff ame phones [ first time on headset];
forstaff wing walkers
the tug driver instructed the poor bastard on the phones to have a go , he was in the tug ,he should have been walking beside the tug watching the wing walkers, his leading hand the tug driver should have given better info to the first timer.
The tug driver was going to fast , GUNG HO WAS THE TERM USED !!!
qf lame in flight deck;
qf lame driving tug;
forstaff ame phones [ first time on headset];
forstaff wing walkers
the tug driver instructed the poor bastard on the phones to have a go , he was in the tug ,he should have been walking beside the tug watching the wing walkers, his leading hand the tug driver should have given better info to the first timer.
The tug driver was going to fast , GUNG HO WAS THE TERM USED !!!
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Sexy beast if these are the facts, and I don't doubt you, then this is going to hurt for those involved I would think.
Driving a tug too fast whilst towing is just stupid, I had a tug driver floor it once when pushing back from SIT because I woke him from his slumber, I had to run to keep up, not a pleasant experience.
Driving a tug too fast whilst towing is just stupid, I had a tug driver floor it once when pushing back from SIT because I woke him from his slumber, I had to run to keep up, not a pleasant experience.
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the rim
get over it ....these things happen with older aircraft do we want the engineer to stay hooked up till the aircraft gets airbourne so he ....or she can see something thats not right and tell the crew....get real if its not right the flt deck indications will tell them...on later aircraft lets all do our jobs correctly ............i sometimes live in the past but we all should move forward....aircraft have so should we......
get over it ....these things happen with older aircraft do we want the engineer to stay hooked up till the aircraft gets airbourne so he ....or she can see something thats not right and tell the crew....get real if its not right the flt deck indications will tell them...on later aircraft lets all do our jobs correctly ............i sometimes live in the past but we all should move forward....aircraft have so should we......
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Framer
>NZ1009, sounds like you are looking really really hard to find a negative view
>of this....total of two posts...pretty much zero knowledge of
>operations.......not a journo are you?
> If not I apologize for the inference and welcome to PPRuNe,
Not trying hard at all with just two posts - was going to do a third one along the lines of:
So some tech crew configure the flaps/slats while the ground engineer is still connected, I guess in the expectation they will receive some comment if there is a problem. But we are told by 'ampclamp' "but there is no specific instruction to check for this.Tech crew just look at the lights." which is apparently okay because, as 'ampclamp' states, "Its an unusual event in any case ." (for things to go wrong). As for the tech crew just looking at the lights, that is also okay because, as stated by 'the rim', "get real if its not right the flt deck indications will tell them" but, of course, the flight deck indications didnt tell them in this case.
Talk about left hand / right hand and blind faith in electronics / computers!
Thanks for both the apology and welcome. Not really sure why the rest is relevant but you did ask and if I don't respond I will be branded as a journo.
>how long have you been interested in aviation?
Since I was about 10 years old I guess. Did get accepted into the RNZAF as a pilot trainee but a small medical condition they later uncovered put paid to that (my PPrune nick-name is the serial number of an RNZAF Harvard training aircraft inspired by a rather neat photo that came out when I was a kid).
>What sort of licence do you have?
Just a PPL, most SE ratings, about 300 (big deal, I know) hours or so in C152 - C210 plus some gliding time plus lots of real flight time as a sky-diver.
>Do you aspire to the airlines or have you just become interested in this
>push-back because it caught your eye?
No, never did aspire to join the airlines. An academic in an Australian University in the computing area, currently on sabbatical in the Northern Hemisphere (which is why I post in the middle of the night - so no, not a journo creating the morning edition).
I guess I am interested in this because, as far as I know, larger aircraft will be lucky to get of the ground if there is a significant problem with the flaps/slats and this will not become apparent until they are at high speed near the end of the runway. Most other flight safety components are inspected in their take-off configuration so was just wondering about the checking procedure for this rather significant item. Cant say the overall picture from the responses fills me with much confidence. I guess configuring for landing is different as there is a lot more time available to diagnose a problem and maybe you can still land with flaps/slats retracted(?)
Have sent my details by PM so you can check me out on the Internet using Google if you like. It will confirm that I really am just SLF with a little interest in my own self preservation.
>of this....total of two posts...pretty much zero knowledge of
>operations.......not a journo are you?
> If not I apologize for the inference and welcome to PPRuNe,
Not trying hard at all with just two posts - was going to do a third one along the lines of:
So some tech crew configure the flaps/slats while the ground engineer is still connected, I guess in the expectation they will receive some comment if there is a problem. But we are told by 'ampclamp' "but there is no specific instruction to check for this.Tech crew just look at the lights." which is apparently okay because, as 'ampclamp' states, "Its an unusual event in any case ." (for things to go wrong). As for the tech crew just looking at the lights, that is also okay because, as stated by 'the rim', "get real if its not right the flt deck indications will tell them" but, of course, the flight deck indications didnt tell them in this case.
Talk about left hand / right hand and blind faith in electronics / computers!
Thanks for both the apology and welcome. Not really sure why the rest is relevant but you did ask and if I don't respond I will be branded as a journo.
>how long have you been interested in aviation?
Since I was about 10 years old I guess. Did get accepted into the RNZAF as a pilot trainee but a small medical condition they later uncovered put paid to that (my PPrune nick-name is the serial number of an RNZAF Harvard training aircraft inspired by a rather neat photo that came out when I was a kid).
>What sort of licence do you have?
Just a PPL, most SE ratings, about 300 (big deal, I know) hours or so in C152 - C210 plus some gliding time plus lots of real flight time as a sky-diver.
>Do you aspire to the airlines or have you just become interested in this
>push-back because it caught your eye?
No, never did aspire to join the airlines. An academic in an Australian University in the computing area, currently on sabbatical in the Northern Hemisphere (which is why I post in the middle of the night - so no, not a journo creating the morning edition).
I guess I am interested in this because, as far as I know, larger aircraft will be lucky to get of the ground if there is a significant problem with the flaps/slats and this will not become apparent until they are at high speed near the end of the runway. Most other flight safety components are inspected in their take-off configuration so was just wondering about the checking procedure for this rather significant item. Cant say the overall picture from the responses fills me with much confidence. I guess configuring for landing is different as there is a lot more time available to diagnose a problem and maybe you can still land with flaps/slats retracted(?)
Have sent my details by PM so you can check me out on the Internet using Google if you like. It will confirm that I really am just SLF with a little interest in my own self preservation.
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satos i think you missed the point that i was making ....i am against a lame-less tarmac and yes with the pilot as well as the lame doing a walkaround is the best ...but how long after push back does the lame need to be there...thats all
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Ojm Flys Away
Hi Superlame,
just to let you know one of the aircraft involved in the towing incident left Avalon @1440hrs vh-ojm had extensive repairs carried out to the o/b l/h wing where it contacted the radome of ojk.
The repairs were carried out by a team of Forstaff sheetmetal workers who did an excellent job under great pressure from the boys in suits
I hope the put on a barbie for the people involved!
REGARDS ,SEXY BEAST
just to let you know one of the aircraft involved in the towing incident left Avalon @1440hrs vh-ojm had extensive repairs carried out to the o/b l/h wing where it contacted the radome of ojk.
The repairs were carried out by a team of Forstaff sheetmetal workers who did an excellent job under great pressure from the boys in suits
I hope the put on a barbie for the people involved!
REGARDS ,SEXY BEAST
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the rim
satos i think you missed the point that i was making ....i am against a lame-less tarmac and yes with the pilot as well as the lame doing a walkaround is the best ..
satos i think you missed the point that i was making ....i am against a lame-less tarmac and yes with the pilot as well as the lame doing a walkaround is the best ..
.but how long after push back does the lame need to be there...thats all
Cheers mate.