PM flags major naval build-up
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PM flags major naval build-up
Matthew Franklin, Chief political correspondent "The Australian" | September 10, 2008
KEVIN Rudd has foreshadowed a dramatic expansion of the Royal Australian Navy to counter a military build-up being bankrolled by Asia's growing economic prosperity.
The Prime Minister last night warned that nations across Asia were modernising their military forces, particularly with more powerful jet fighters and submarines, and that Australia must respond with its own upgrade.
In a blunt warning to the national congress of the Returned and Services League, Mr Rudd also said he wanted to use Australia's status as "a middle power" to promote comprehensive diplomatic engagement within the region and through the UN as a buffer against regional rivalries.
"We see a substantial arms build-up over time," Mr Rudd said in Townsville. "We need to be aware of the changes taking place. And we must make sure that we have the right mix of capabilities to deal with any contingencies that might arise in the future."
Mr Rudd did not name any particular nation as posing a specific military threat. But Australian and US intelligence agencies are known to be wary of the growing economic might of China and India.
And they have lately warned that China is building an underground naval base at Sanya, on Hainan Island, off its southern coast, with berths for up to 20 advanced nuclear submarines.
Earlier this year, the Chinese navy had at least 55 submarines, eight of which were nuclear-powered. Many were equipped with Yingji-8 anti-ship cruise missiles that can be launched from under water. It is believed there are a further 13 nuclear submarines in the planning stages. China announced in March it would lift its military budget this year by a record 19.4per cent to $63 billion, but Washington believes its actual spending is much higher.
Since taking power last November, Mr Rudd's Government guaranteed an annual 3 per cent real growth rate in defence spending until 2017-18 and has quarantined the department from budget cuts. He has been preparing a Defence white paper to be completed within months, as well as a national security statement expected to be delivered within weeks.
And the Prime Minister has pursued frenetic regional diplomacy, defying Opposition criticism to visit China, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore.
Last night, Mr Rudd told the RSL that the Asia-Pacific region was so dynamic and included so many "flashpoints" that Australia could not bank on never-ending regional co-operation.
"The Asia-Pacific region will become more prosperous and its population will continue to grow," he said. "Militarily, however, as it has already become economically and politically, the Asia-Pacific will become a much more contested region."
By 2050, Australia's population would reach 35 million, while China's would peak at 1.5 billion by 2020 and India's would hit 1.8billion by the middle of the century.
"The demographic changes in our region will mean that by 2020, when we look to our north, we will see a very different region to the one we see now - one where population, food, water and energy resources pressures will be great," he said.
These pressures would add to those around pre-existing political fault lines, such as territorial disputes.
With North and South Korea still technically at war and China and Taiwan unable to resolve basic questions of sovereignty, increasing military spending was an issue of concern.
"As a general observation, the modernisation of Asian military forces is being characterised by significant improvements in air combat capability, and naval forces, including greater numbers and more advanced submarines."
Mr Rudd said Australia must therefore look to its own military resources and maintain a flexible land force able to contribute to "high-end military engagements".
"We need an advanced naval capability that can protect our sea lanes of communication and support our land forces as they deploy," he said. "And we need an air force that can fill support and combat roles and can deter, defeat and provide assistance to land and maritime forces."
Mr Rudd said the power of the US would decline relative to that of other nations in coming decades but that it would remain the world's only superpower until the middle of the century and maintain its "global leadership role".
He also used his speech to bring context to his foreign policy moves since taking office, stressing that his proposal for the creation of an Asian Economic Community with a role on security, not just trade, was tied to his determination to use Australia's status as a middle power to encourage regional security.
Likewise, he said, his proposed creation of an International Commission on Nuclear Non-Proliferation and Disarmament was part of an attempt to respond to the spread of nuclear weapons to more and more nations.
"Australia has the credibility and the drive to lead initiatives like this, in part because they are in our interest, but also because they make a positive contribution to the international community," Mr Rudd said. "But diplomacy must always be reinforced by a credible national defence strategy.
"We need to make sure that we have an Australian Defence Force that can answer the call if it is needed."
Earlier yesterday, Brendan Nelson told the RSL there should be a formal national apology to Vietnam veterans, acknowledging they were ill-treated when they returned to Australia in the 1960s and 1970s.
The Opposition Leader said Vietnam veterans deserved an apology for being subject to abuse and mistreatment on their return from service.
Within hours, the proposal was rejected by the Vietnam Veterans Association.
Vietnam Veterans Association national president Ron Coxon told The Australian last night Vietnam veterans felt they had already been honoured by the 1987 welcome home march, the construction of a national memorial in 1992 and the recognition of major battles such as Long Tan.
"I don't think he would achieve anything by doing that," Mr Coxon said of Dr Nelson's proposal. "They would be better looking after veterans in the claims process rather than apologising for it."
VSTOL maybe?????
KEVIN Rudd has foreshadowed a dramatic expansion of the Royal Australian Navy to counter a military build-up being bankrolled by Asia's growing economic prosperity.
The Prime Minister last night warned that nations across Asia were modernising their military forces, particularly with more powerful jet fighters and submarines, and that Australia must respond with its own upgrade.
In a blunt warning to the national congress of the Returned and Services League, Mr Rudd also said he wanted to use Australia's status as "a middle power" to promote comprehensive diplomatic engagement within the region and through the UN as a buffer against regional rivalries.
"We see a substantial arms build-up over time," Mr Rudd said in Townsville. "We need to be aware of the changes taking place. And we must make sure that we have the right mix of capabilities to deal with any contingencies that might arise in the future."
Mr Rudd did not name any particular nation as posing a specific military threat. But Australian and US intelligence agencies are known to be wary of the growing economic might of China and India.
And they have lately warned that China is building an underground naval base at Sanya, on Hainan Island, off its southern coast, with berths for up to 20 advanced nuclear submarines.
Earlier this year, the Chinese navy had at least 55 submarines, eight of which were nuclear-powered. Many were equipped with Yingji-8 anti-ship cruise missiles that can be launched from under water. It is believed there are a further 13 nuclear submarines in the planning stages. China announced in March it would lift its military budget this year by a record 19.4per cent to $63 billion, but Washington believes its actual spending is much higher.
Since taking power last November, Mr Rudd's Government guaranteed an annual 3 per cent real growth rate in defence spending until 2017-18 and has quarantined the department from budget cuts. He has been preparing a Defence white paper to be completed within months, as well as a national security statement expected to be delivered within weeks.
And the Prime Minister has pursued frenetic regional diplomacy, defying Opposition criticism to visit China, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore.
Last night, Mr Rudd told the RSL that the Asia-Pacific region was so dynamic and included so many "flashpoints" that Australia could not bank on never-ending regional co-operation.
"The Asia-Pacific region will become more prosperous and its population will continue to grow," he said. "Militarily, however, as it has already become economically and politically, the Asia-Pacific will become a much more contested region."
By 2050, Australia's population would reach 35 million, while China's would peak at 1.5 billion by 2020 and India's would hit 1.8billion by the middle of the century.
"The demographic changes in our region will mean that by 2020, when we look to our north, we will see a very different region to the one we see now - one where population, food, water and energy resources pressures will be great," he said.
These pressures would add to those around pre-existing political fault lines, such as territorial disputes.
With North and South Korea still technically at war and China and Taiwan unable to resolve basic questions of sovereignty, increasing military spending was an issue of concern.
"As a general observation, the modernisation of Asian military forces is being characterised by significant improvements in air combat capability, and naval forces, including greater numbers and more advanced submarines."
Mr Rudd said Australia must therefore look to its own military resources and maintain a flexible land force able to contribute to "high-end military engagements".
"We need an advanced naval capability that can protect our sea lanes of communication and support our land forces as they deploy," he said. "And we need an air force that can fill support and combat roles and can deter, defeat and provide assistance to land and maritime forces."
Mr Rudd said the power of the US would decline relative to that of other nations in coming decades but that it would remain the world's only superpower until the middle of the century and maintain its "global leadership role".
He also used his speech to bring context to his foreign policy moves since taking office, stressing that his proposal for the creation of an Asian Economic Community with a role on security, not just trade, was tied to his determination to use Australia's status as a middle power to encourage regional security.
Likewise, he said, his proposed creation of an International Commission on Nuclear Non-Proliferation and Disarmament was part of an attempt to respond to the spread of nuclear weapons to more and more nations.
"Australia has the credibility and the drive to lead initiatives like this, in part because they are in our interest, but also because they make a positive contribution to the international community," Mr Rudd said. "But diplomacy must always be reinforced by a credible national defence strategy.
"We need to make sure that we have an Australian Defence Force that can answer the call if it is needed."
Earlier yesterday, Brendan Nelson told the RSL there should be a formal national apology to Vietnam veterans, acknowledging they were ill-treated when they returned to Australia in the 1960s and 1970s.
The Opposition Leader said Vietnam veterans deserved an apology for being subject to abuse and mistreatment on their return from service.
Within hours, the proposal was rejected by the Vietnam Veterans Association.
Vietnam Veterans Association national president Ron Coxon told The Australian last night Vietnam veterans felt they had already been honoured by the 1987 welcome home march, the construction of a national memorial in 1992 and the recognition of major battles such as Long Tan.
"I don't think he would achieve anything by doing that," Mr Coxon said of Dr Nelson's proposal. "They would be better looking after veterans in the claims process rather than apologising for it."
VSTOL maybe?????
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Australian and US intelligence agencies are known to be wary of the growing economic might of China and India.
Intelligence agencies
Evertonian
Lots of "we need", but no "we're getting" as yet.(ie; doesn't really match the articles title) Interested to see the White paper when it comes out...
Last edited by Buster Hyman; 10th Sep 2008 at 02:20.
I look forward to what new toys Labor add.
I hope they are not going to try and lay claim to the 2 x LHD, 3 x AWD (more if they want), JSF (which they fought tooth and nail against and now acknowledge is the best choice), super hornets (which they fought tooth and nail against as well....but now acknowledge is the best interim) KC 30s, C17s, AWACs, Abrahms tanks, Tiger Attack helicopters, MRH 90s which are all or will shortly be in service.
I think all that is left is a mighty Caribou replacement and maybe new Submarines 10 years from now.....all while taking 10 Billion out of defence and not having enough people to run what the Defence force has now!
I look forward to BIG surprises.....really I do
I hope they are not going to try and lay claim to the 2 x LHD, 3 x AWD (more if they want), JSF (which they fought tooth and nail against and now acknowledge is the best choice), super hornets (which they fought tooth and nail against as well....but now acknowledge is the best interim) KC 30s, C17s, AWACs, Abrahms tanks, Tiger Attack helicopters, MRH 90s which are all or will shortly be in service.
I think all that is left is a mighty Caribou replacement and maybe new Submarines 10 years from now.....all while taking 10 Billion out of defence and not having enough people to run what the Defence force has now!
I look forward to BIG surprises.....really I do
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my mail is the 4 remaining FFG's (HMAS sydney, Darwin, Melbourne and Newcastle) will go for maybe an extra couple of air warfare destroyers. Apparently the FFG upgrade programme didn't turn out the way Canberra wanted
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Anyone think Keeping the Pigs is a good idea?
Long Range, Fast as
and carries big bombs!
Also good for airshows and cracker nights on the river!
J
Long Range, Fast as
and carries big bombs!Also good for airshows and cracker nights on the river!
J
The navy has just released half a dozen 2FTS graduates who will not have to complete a return of service because of training bungling- Sea Sprites I gather.
How long before they are short of pilots? Couldn't they get funding to get these guys operational flying or training elsewhere?
The wastage is not worthy of a national naval build up yet. Give them Yank hand me downs like a 2nd tier Asian navy.
How long before they are short of pilots? Couldn't they get funding to get these guys operational flying or training elsewhere?
The wastage is not worthy of a national naval build up yet. Give them Yank hand me downs like a 2nd tier Asian navy.
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You can almost guarantee that if (huge 'if') Kev actually does anything, (apart from talk about it), the kit will be:
- (it goes without saying) incredibly expensive
- one-off, (ie, no one else will have it, OR, be so out of date no one has it any more)
- totally unsuited to the task in hand
- arrive - five to ten years late after successive delays - with its main weapons systems either non-existent or missing some vital piece of hardware/software so as not to offend the Indonesians.
Anyone care to add to this list?
Surely the RAN's main current crisis point is manning rather than equipment? Why not get creative and do something similar to what the Yanks have been doing for years now and come up with a scheme where if a young man or woman goes into the Services for (five?) years, they can walk out at the end of their enlistment period and go to university or TAFE and have their HECS debt forgiven? Throw them a living allowance, even if it's only a small one, via some form of a scholarship as well - so long as they remain on the active Reserve for (ten?) years. For those not interested in going to uni, set up a scheme that converts the trade they learned in the Service to a civilian-recognised ticket.
Treat them well in the meantime and you might even find some will sign on and stay at the end of their first enlistment.
- (it goes without saying) incredibly expensive
- one-off, (ie, no one else will have it, OR, be so out of date no one has it any more)
- totally unsuited to the task in hand
- arrive - five to ten years late after successive delays - with its main weapons systems either non-existent or missing some vital piece of hardware/software so as not to offend the Indonesians.
Anyone care to add to this list?
Surely the RAN's main current crisis point is manning rather than equipment? Why not get creative and do something similar to what the Yanks have been doing for years now and come up with a scheme where if a young man or woman goes into the Services for (five?) years, they can walk out at the end of their enlistment period and go to university or TAFE and have their HECS debt forgiven? Throw them a living allowance, even if it's only a small one, via some form of a scholarship as well - so long as they remain on the active Reserve for (ten?) years. For those not interested in going to uni, set up a scheme that converts the trade they learned in the Service to a civilian-recognised ticket.
Treat them well in the meantime and you might even find some will sign on and stay at the end of their first enlistment.
Wiley
That the Navy is letting recent graduates of 2FTS walk without a return of service shows the levels of incompetence. There will always be a manning crisis if they couldn't come up with something creative to retain these young blokes.
That the Navy is letting recent graduates of 2FTS walk without a return of service shows the levels of incompetence. There will always be a manning crisis if they couldn't come up with something creative to retain these young blokes.
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Seems to me, if you want to invade a country like this, wiping out the massive power grids is all you have to do. Forget the three services, what the hell are they going to do when there is no power hence no computers etc. Batteries only last so long.......... Though why anybody wants to invade such a large country that is mostly uninhabital anyway escapes me, the Japanese gave up the idea in 44, and I imagine most other countries would think the same, other than nicking off with mining and fishing resourses ( and perhaps the Melbourne Cup) I don't really think we need to loose to much sleep, worrying about the Asians sneaking thru DRW in the middle of the night! This Asian invasion stuff has been going on since Pontius was a Pilot, and makes great vote getting stuff, if the pollies feel things are not going to well. Great idea for more subs, when they cannot get crews for the ones they have! This not a reflection on serving members, just on the silliness of trying to protect a country that is basically unprotectable, with resourses we dont have, and not likely to. We would once more have to turn to the country most hated by the loony left, the US of A, bleeting for help, keep our services as they are, and put the rest of the money into the kids cancer wards, that will be a far better investment.
G'Day Jabawocky,
You are indeed correct. Keeping the F111s would have been an excellent idea to put it mildly. In deciding to retire them the Govt has effectively removed more than 50% of the RAAF s offensive strike capability.
See here for a huge amount of in depth info and analysis-
RAAF F-111
As many articles on the ausairpower website state and demonstrate through their in depth analysis and as was proven by airpower advocate Billy Mitchell in the 20s and 30s, the aeroplane was then and is now the dominant military platform in almost every strategic scenario and in many tactical ones as well.
Since WW 1 this has been proven in practice in countless battles.
Without air dominance/superiority any land or naval forces are simply targets for any well trained and equipped hostile air forces.
Whilst we certainly need well equipped and much larger naval forces to protect Australias vast sea lanes and maritime approaches, without a very well equipped and numerically strong RAAF to provide air control over those forces they are totally vulnerable to hostile anti shipping missile equipped maritime strike platforms like those proliferating at an alarming rate throughout the Asian and Indian sub continents.
Many of these types are vastly superior to our aging F/A-18As and even the soon to come F/A -18Fs.
The above site provides many hours of detailed explanations that are easy to understand by military professionals /analysts as well as enthusiasts alike on a multitude of topics including those I have mentioned.
Pity more politicians and media people dont get better informed on such matters.
Cheers
You are indeed correct. Keeping the F111s would have been an excellent idea to put it mildly. In deciding to retire them the Govt has effectively removed more than 50% of the RAAF s offensive strike capability.
See here for a huge amount of in depth info and analysis-
RAAF F-111
As many articles on the ausairpower website state and demonstrate through their in depth analysis and as was proven by airpower advocate Billy Mitchell in the 20s and 30s, the aeroplane was then and is now the dominant military platform in almost every strategic scenario and in many tactical ones as well.
Since WW 1 this has been proven in practice in countless battles.
Without air dominance/superiority any land or naval forces are simply targets for any well trained and equipped hostile air forces.
Whilst we certainly need well equipped and much larger naval forces to protect Australias vast sea lanes and maritime approaches, without a very well equipped and numerically strong RAAF to provide air control over those forces they are totally vulnerable to hostile anti shipping missile equipped maritime strike platforms like those proliferating at an alarming rate throughout the Asian and Indian sub continents.
Many of these types are vastly superior to our aging F/A-18As and even the soon to come F/A -18Fs.
The above site provides many hours of detailed explanations that are easy to understand by military professionals /analysts as well as enthusiasts alike on a multitude of topics including those I have mentioned.
Pity more politicians and media people dont get better informed on such matters.
Cheers
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I know for a fact from my mate based at stirling that a navy 2FTS graduate has just been posted to recruiting in Perth!!!! absolute waist of young talent!!! His/her RAAF and Army cousins graduate and go off to do what they love and are trained to do, navy put you behind a desk as a 22 year old!!!!
absolute waist of young talent!!! His/her RAAF and Army cousins graduate and go off to do what they love and are trained to do, navy put you behind a desk as a 22 year old!!!!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Right now they own six Collins Class subs. and have crew for three. Right now they do not have enough military qualified ATCOs and are in serious trouble.
This problem and an immigration problem could easily be solved though.
Announce National Service! Over half of west Sydney would be back in Lebanon over night. Young idiots would be learning a disciplined life and not have time for knife fights outside pubs at OhforChristsakeWhatTimeIsIt?
This problem and an immigration problem could easily be solved though.
Announce National Service! Over half of west Sydney would be back in Lebanon over night. Young idiots would be learning a disciplined life and not have time for knife fights outside pubs at OhforChristsakeWhatTimeIsIt?
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G'burg
The incompetence is not of the navy's making.
Add together an effective, yes effective training system that produces pilots regularly, aircraft being paid off (remember that seasprite thing), and Seahawks being upgraded and constantly at sea in the gulf and you get a non-functioning training pipeline At the moment!
If you can find enough room in the other services training pipelines- good luck!
We could always ask the Govt to pull out of the gulf.....
The incompetence is not of the navy's making.
Add together an effective, yes effective training system that produces pilots regularly, aircraft being paid off (remember that seasprite thing), and Seahawks being upgraded and constantly at sea in the gulf and you get a non-functioning training pipeline At the moment!
If you can find enough room in the other services training pipelines- good luck!
We could always ask the Govt to pull out of the gulf.....