Qantas to Decline as Jetstar Soars
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Mud what in the hell will mainline union be abe to do anyway. Q has always had the trump card and I can't ever see any widespread industrial action. By the way why does Mainline have any more right to crew the 78 than Jetstar?
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Calm down
No one wants Jet*to fold nor will it fold ...it plays a role in domestic aviation.
Its requirement in the international arena is yet to be proven.
It has been said ad infinitum that LCCs survive in an environment of comparatively low fuel cost.The model is predicated on that and lower wages than legacy carriers.
When the fuel cost changes so does the business model..ie they are no longer LCCs.
There is a place for the business model but only in a particular economic environment.
That environment is shifting
Its requirement in the international arena is yet to be proven.
It has been said ad infinitum that LCCs survive in an environment of comparatively low fuel cost.The model is predicated on that and lower wages than legacy carriers.
When the fuel cost changes so does the business model..ie they are no longer LCCs.
There is a place for the business model but only in a particular economic environment.
That environment is shifting
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Muff Hunter.
Jetstar are not making money independantly.
I repeat they are not making money independantly.
I dont wish for the demise of Jetstar, let them be profitable by their own accord & not by piggybacking the Qantas mainline brand. In that regard best wishes.
From the sources I have spoken to today, they told me that the ONLY reason that "Jetstar still exists" (there quote) is that they are propped up by the parents Accounting department.
Hence my statement that the parent company are sending in their own to sort out the accounting practices that are inconsistant with the parents own standards.
Its not about cost base its about brand, the QANTAS mainline brand is a successful product. The Jetstar brand is successful but only because it's cost base is propped up by some clever in house accounting. Of which the transfer of costs to the parent is starting to agitate those responsible for the parents cost base.
Tester - You dont need to explain. But there will always be a premium service available. Even in non peak times by Qantas Mainline.
The other rumour going around is Jetstar have until 25-05-09 to make it independantly profitable. That's 5 years since the launch date.
MC
Jetstar are not making money independantly.
I repeat they are not making money independantly.
I dont wish for the demise of Jetstar, let them be profitable by their own accord & not by piggybacking the Qantas mainline brand. In that regard best wishes.
From the sources I have spoken to today, they told me that the ONLY reason that "Jetstar still exists" (there quote) is that they are propped up by the parents Accounting department.
Hence my statement that the parent company are sending in their own to sort out the accounting practices that are inconsistant with the parents own standards.
Its not about cost base its about brand, the QANTAS mainline brand is a successful product. The Jetstar brand is successful but only because it's cost base is propped up by some clever in house accounting. Of which the transfer of costs to the parent is starting to agitate those responsible for the parents cost base.
Tester - You dont need to explain. But there will always be a premium service available. Even in non peak times by Qantas Mainline.
The other rumour going around is Jetstar have until 25-05-09 to make it independantly profitable. That's 5 years since the launch date.
MC
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Nice try Mstr.
The old 'Jetstar is internally subsidised' line is getting a little tiring. Like it or not JQ are independant.
If your sources are the same ones Keg was using to garner 'senior' management predictions of Jetstar's demise then perhaps you need to fish in deeper ponds.
Alan Joyce was not appointed to the CEO position of Qantas because he was running a sham.
Jetstar will get as many 787's as is justifiable, likewise with mainline.
The sooner that we can just get the 787 salivation over and done with the sooner these sorts of divisive arguments can be disposed of.
IMHO what QF AND JQ pilots need to understand is that we work for flight operations departments, not brands. Who dictates what 'brand' is on the tail?
Having said that I fail to see how EBA 8 will secure QF pilots 787 flying by ensuring they are one of, if not THE most expensive 787 pilots in THE WORLD.........
The old 'Jetstar is internally subsidised' line is getting a little tiring. Like it or not JQ are independant.
If your sources are the same ones Keg was using to garner 'senior' management predictions of Jetstar's demise then perhaps you need to fish in deeper ponds.
Alan Joyce was not appointed to the CEO position of Qantas because he was running a sham.
Jetstar will get as many 787's as is justifiable, likewise with mainline.
The sooner that we can just get the 787 salivation over and done with the sooner these sorts of divisive arguments can be disposed of.
IMHO what QF AND JQ pilots need to understand is that we work for flight operations departments, not brands. Who dictates what 'brand' is on the tail?
Having said that I fail to see how EBA 8 will secure QF pilots 787 flying by ensuring they are one of, if not THE most expensive 787 pilots in THE WORLD.........
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JJW, it's not a stir it's fact.
Jetstar is being subsidised HEAVILY by the parent company. Jetstar are independant in select areas but with regard to covering the cost of the business they are most definately not. To the point the parents acccounting department are becomming quite vocal as to the accounts they recieve to cover the cost of Jetstars operation.
I never said the operation as Jetstar is a sham. Your words not mine. However, Alan Joyce has intimate knowledge as to how HEAVILY the Jetstar operation in DEPENDANT on the subsidies provided by the parent company. AJ beat JB & PG to the job because his vision for the way forward for the Qantas Group outgunned his rivals.
The thread is titled Qantas to decline as Jetstar soars. My issue is that the reason Jetstar enjoys such favourable operating environment is the HEAVY subsidisation from the parent company.
Not the pilots.
MC
The old 'Jetstar is internally subsidised' line is getting a little tiring. Like it or not JQ are independant.
Alan Joyce was not appointed to the CEO position of Qantas because he was running a sham.
The sooner that we can just get the 787 salivation over and done with the sooner these sorts of divisive arguments can be disposed of.
Who dictates what 'brand' is on the tail?
MC
Last edited by Mstr Caution; 28th Aug 2008 at 23:07.
Nunc est bibendum
JJW, I just love being verballed. 
I've got a mate in the NSW coppers who could do with someone of your skills. If you are going to refer to my comments then at least do me the courtesy of quoting me in context rather than the blather you've gone on with in your last post. 
I've got a mate in the NSW coppers who could do with someone of your skills. If you are going to refer to my comments then at least do me the courtesy of quoting me in context rather than the blather you've gone on with in your last post.
Having said that I fail to see how EBA 8 will secure QF pilots 787 flying by ensuring they are one of, if not THE most expensive 787 pilots in THE WORLD.........
It specifically states that if the 787 is flown in QANTAS livery then it will be done so under EBA8 conditions.
Do you reckon they are all going to be painted silver?
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If and when the QF fleets are rationalised, and even before then, EBA8 will give the company large savings in type transfers as well flying 20 heavy crewed A380's at 744 rates. EBA 8 also gives most pilots a pay rise. The bleating on Qrewroom is a political exercise from a select few who criticise the current AIPA administration no matter what they do. Most pilots when faced with the choice will vote yes.
Those of you who believe that the rate that pilots are paid to fly an aircraft like the 787 will be the ultimate determinant of which brand flies the aircraft are simply falling for a well worn lie.
Those of you who believe that the rate that pilots are paid to fly an aircraft like the 787 will be the ultimate determinant of which brand flies the aircraft are simply falling for a well worn lie.
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Does anyone know the size of the direct subsidy that QF receives from JQ (via QF Corporate) to have it's yields and high cost base protected? One can only speculate on what QF would be worth with its yields in tatters (i.e. without JQ) but it couldn't be much. I would have thought, as somewhat of an amateur at this.....that if QF make say at best 8% of sales as a margin, then if yields fell 9%, they'd be below the Plimsoll line.
Anyway, if anyone knows how much JQ subsidises mainline, love to hear. Might win some bets.
Anyway, if anyone knows how much JQ subsidises mainline, love to hear. Might win some bets.
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An Email
Send Peter Gregg an email.
He might just be pissed off enough to supply you with some details.
Other than that those figures will surely remain another corporate mystery.
He might just be pissed off enough to supply you with some details.
Other than that those figures will surely remain another corporate mystery.
Nunc est bibendum
newsensation, it doesn't matter what happens at the SGM, the EBA is going to the vote and may get up. The only thing the SGM may do is provide some more info upon which crew can base their decision and provide some form of direction in the event of a 'no' vote. Kremin may be close to the mark though. Many 767 crew I speak to are trending toward 'yes'. Me? I'm still undecided.
Last edited by Keg; 29th Aug 2008 at 06:42.
Most of the 76 guys I speak to are junior and are not too happy about the slot restrictions!
In addition QF are now giving 'get out of jail free' cards to those with short haul slots.
All up I'd say the prognosis is grim.
In addition QF are now giving 'get out of jail free' cards to those with short haul slots.
All up I'd say the prognosis is grim.
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Mst Ctn..glad to see you have had a very good look at the QF accounts....we should all be pleased that we have looking after the finanicial viabilty of our company.....(sounds like you are a fraustrated FO)
JQ domestic are doing very well....(most if not all ground ops and the like are tendered to company's other than QF, look at the CG,DN and others, JQ have all moved away from QF services as they are too expensive)
International still finding their place but are becoming more viable...
Open your eyes, the future of the group is JQ, in it's present form or something else.....
With high fuel costs and ever increasing comp do you really belive they will grow mainline with the cost base the way it is?
I doubt it.....
JQ domestic are doing very well....(most if not all ground ops and the like are tendered to company's other than QF, look at the CG,DN and others, JQ have all moved away from QF services as they are too expensive)
International still finding their place but are becoming more viable...
Open your eyes, the future of the group is JQ, in it's present form or something else.....
With high fuel costs and ever increasing comp do you really belive they will grow mainline with the cost base the way it is?
I doubt it.....