Qantas to Decline as Jetstar Soars
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as is common with legacy carriers surrounded by decades of industrial fat.
Labor costs solved.
the almost absurd level of remuneration that exists at the corporate level will you have tackled the cost issue.
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Lookleft, that is my observation exactly. The Leprechaun cries, "Business is too tough, we have to merge the operations and keep the jetstar T&Cs". The velvet bulldozer. Remember Dixon in his letter to pilots put his hand on his heart and said "QF a/c will never be painted silver", because that was never his intention. He never said he would never paint silver aircraft red and white.
Lets just hope the brand hold some value after the never ending cost cutting slowly becomes obvious to the consumers.
Lets just hope the brand hold some value after the never ending cost cutting slowly becomes obvious to the consumers.
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Ken Borough....You must be in management because you selectively choose what you want to hear ....
IF you read what I said instead of what you want others to hear then you will see I said that BOTH the level of management (that is compared to other business) and the absurd (and almost immoral) is a huge cost issue.
As I said the cliché about an inverted pyramid exists today more than at any time.Too many chiefs and not enough Indians is a huge problem unless of course you are one of the chiefs and if you are asking the indians to show restraint and you are giving yourself a big bonus it compounds the problem.
IF you read what I said instead of what you want others to hear then you will see I said that BOTH the level of management (that is compared to other business) and the absurd (and almost immoral) is a huge cost issue.
When you have reduced the over load of management and the almost absurd level of remuneration that exists at the corporate level will you have tackled the cost issue.
This Forum
Why is it that this forum never seems to rise above the juvenile rantings of one airline vs another?
You can go away from here and come back years later, and the same BS is flying around.
Pathetic.
PS
Of course this doesn't apply to ALL who post in this forum, however the juveniles tend to dominate and overcome any rational discussion that may be attempted.
You can go away from here and come back years later, and the same BS is flying around.
Pathetic.
PS
Of course this doesn't apply to ALL who post in this forum, however the juveniles tend to dominate and overcome any rational discussion that may be attempted.
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It seems that times are a changing.
If my sources are correct, the parent company is about to appoint one of their own to run the Jetstar accounts department.
It seems the parents accounts department has had enough of the free reign that Jetstar has had regarding the apportioning of costs to the parent company.
It also seems the appointment is to clean up the issues surrounding the Jetstar Accounting department & to bring it into line with that of the parents accounting standards.
MC
If my sources are correct, the parent company is about to appoint one of their own to run the Jetstar accounts department.
It seems the parents accounts department has had enough of the free reign that Jetstar has had regarding the apportioning of costs to the parent company.
It also seems the appointment is to clean up the issues surrounding the Jetstar Accounting department & to bring it into line with that of the parents accounting standards.
MC
Jobs Stuffed
tunedog,
If you are right then we may as well just wind up Qantas Mainline as the old fleet will not last long enough for us to survive. Clifford can not be stupid enough to think the public will put up with the rapidly declining service we currently offer with derelict 767's and quickly ageing 744's not to mention the dinosaur 747 classics trying to service Perth. Does anyone honestly believe this could go on for another 5 years..... A few A380's will not touch the sides of our dire straits.
Some how I think there must still be a lot of water to go under the bridge on this one.
Lots of scare tack ticks running around also with regards to EBA8 - don't believe everything you hear.
Heck I've heard some pilots might even have Political aspirations, perhaps even at the L...... Party federal level, guess if you can have a teacher as premier in Victoria then anything is possible.
If you are right then we may as well just wind up Qantas Mainline as the old fleet will not last long enough for us to survive. Clifford can not be stupid enough to think the public will put up with the rapidly declining service we currently offer with derelict 767's and quickly ageing 744's not to mention the dinosaur 747 classics trying to service Perth. Does anyone honestly believe this could go on for another 5 years..... A few A380's will not touch the sides of our dire straits.
Some how I think there must still be a lot of water to go under the bridge on this one.
Lots of scare tack ticks running around also with regards to EBA8 - don't believe everything you hear.
Heck I've heard some pilots might even have Political aspirations, perhaps even at the L...... Party federal level, guess if you can have a teacher as premier in Victoria then anything is possible.
General revolt
Perhaps they will try that VD,
One wonders how far Mainline drivers can be pushed before they react. Up to now we have had all the spine of a jellyfish and are paying for that in spades.
Once the EBA is signed the company behaves as though they can do and get away with anything as industrial action become very difficult.
Also, I believe, one biggest problem is the association is still run by and for the 744 Captains and until events hurt them then the company will get away with what ever it wants........ I hear the cries of indignation but you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise.
Mud.
One wonders how far Mainline drivers can be pushed before they react. Up to now we have had all the spine of a jellyfish and are paying for that in spades.
Once the EBA is signed the company behaves as though they can do and get away with anything as industrial action become very difficult.
Also, I believe, one biggest problem is the association is still run by and for the 744 Captains and until events hurt them then the company will get away with what ever it wants........ I hear the cries of indignation but you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise.
Mud.
Nunc est bibendum
Mstr Caution is close. EBA8 says that mainline 787s are flown under EBA8 terms and conditions. You don't have to be an AIPA pilot but the terms and conditions are EBA8.
tunedog's information about the deliveries is old news. J* was always getting the first 25 787s. However, aircraft 15-25 are 938 and when J* start taking delivery of these aircraft, they release 10 838s to be repainted into QF colours. All this is on the aircraft delivery schedule on the QF web site and has been there since 24 Oct 07. That same schedule then shows aircraft 26-41 going to QF. QF fleet of 25, J* fleet of 15 as of that time. Alan Joyce's comments as of a week ago were 15 to J*, next 15 to QF and then they'd see after that. Broadly consistent with the delivery schedule.
J* are scheduled to start getting the 938 from Mar 11 and the schedule shows that QF will have 25 787s (10 from J* and the 15 direct entries) from Mar 11 to Oct 12.
Given that the 767s need to be retired it'll be interesting to see whether QF just gift that capacity to J* and move out of that market segment in their own right completely or whether they replace that 767 capacity with the 787. I reckon it's going to be red tail 787s replacing the 767 and if EBA8 gets up that means that whoever drives them are going to be on half decent pay and conditions.
Of course all of this may be old news and next weeks 5 year plan could change it all.
tunedog's information about the deliveries is old news. J* was always getting the first 25 787s. However, aircraft 15-25 are 938 and when J* start taking delivery of these aircraft, they release 10 838s to be repainted into QF colours. All this is on the aircraft delivery schedule on the QF web site and has been there since 24 Oct 07. That same schedule then shows aircraft 26-41 going to QF. QF fleet of 25, J* fleet of 15 as of that time. Alan Joyce's comments as of a week ago were 15 to J*, next 15 to QF and then they'd see after that. Broadly consistent with the delivery schedule.
J* are scheduled to start getting the 938 from Mar 11 and the schedule shows that QF will have 25 787s (10 from J* and the 15 direct entries) from Mar 11 to Oct 12.
Given that the 767s need to be retired it'll be interesting to see whether QF just gift that capacity to J* and move out of that market segment in their own right completely or whether they replace that 767 capacity with the 787. I reckon it's going to be red tail 787s replacing the 767 and if EBA8 gets up that means that whoever drives them are going to be on half decent pay and conditions.
Of course all of this may be old news and next weeks 5 year plan could change it all.
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Rightly or wrongly, this whole situation is due to Qantas not having to compete with any other full service carrier in Oz. So Qf have time on their side and as long as there is "some" full service flights they can wind back upto a point. That point is yet to be seen, but I would suggest it will be peak time services remain and the off peak flights will slowly be shifted to LCCs.
Pro: There will always be a Qantas domestic
Con: It will be a shadow of its former self.
Pro: There will always be a Qantas domestic
Con: It will be a shadow of its former self.
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Delivery times for 787s
From Mr Boeing
EVERETT, Wash., April 09, 2008 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced a revised plan for first flight and initial deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner that includes additional schedule margin to reduce risk of further delays on the program.
First flight of the all-new airplane will move into the fourth quarter of this year rather than the end of the second quarter, and first delivery is now planned for the third quarter of 2009 instead of first quarter.
Pat Shanahan, 787 vice president and program manager, also said the program has changed the timing of the introduction of two 787 derivatives. The 787-9, a larger variant of the airplane, will be the first derivative of the baseline 787 with delivery planned for early 2012. The 787-3, a shorter-range model previously slated to deliver in 2010, will now become the second derivative of the airplane family.
Perhaps the 5 year plan needs an update to the schedule as it appears that the 787-9s wont be arriving in Mar 11
EVERETT, Wash., April 09, 2008 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced a revised plan for first flight and initial deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner that includes additional schedule margin to reduce risk of further delays on the program.
First flight of the all-new airplane will move into the fourth quarter of this year rather than the end of the second quarter, and first delivery is now planned for the third quarter of 2009 instead of first quarter.
Pat Shanahan, 787 vice president and program manager, also said the program has changed the timing of the introduction of two 787 derivatives. The 787-9, a larger variant of the airplane, will be the first derivative of the baseline 787 with delivery planned for early 2012. The 787-3, a shorter-range model previously slated to deliver in 2010, will now become the second derivative of the airplane family.
Perhaps the 5 year plan needs an update to the schedule as it appears that the 787-9s wont be arriving in Mar 11
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I wouldnt expect too much gifted capacity when the punters want a premium city flyer service.
As is, the 767's fly around full at peak times earning premium revenue.
Why would you gift that away?
As is, the 767's fly around full at peak times earning premium revenue.
Why would you gift that away?
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Whats stopping JQ having star class seats on it's 787's flying domestically in non-peak times??? becoming a city flyer service...
JQ are already doing trunk routes, mel-adl, syd-bris, and mel-syd as a tag flight for international.
Mast Caut, JQ will not go away, even with you constant moaning about it..it's only going to grow rapidly in the present climate.
Also I hardly call the beaten up old 76 a "premium" product
and.... I did hear that the first 25 going to JQ..
JQ are already doing trunk routes, mel-adl, syd-bris, and mel-syd as a tag flight for international.
Mast Caut, JQ will not go away, even with you constant moaning about it..it's only going to grow rapidly in the present climate.
Also I hardly call the beaten up old 76 a "premium" product
and.... I did hear that the first 25 going to JQ..
.it's only going to grow rapidly in the present climate.
Dixon spent most of the press conference going on about Jetstar yet it was QF mainline that has done well by his own admission. Now why the hell he doesn't spend some money on mainline to try and keep it where it's at is beyond me.
I often wonder which airline he is CEO of. He spends all the money on Jetstar, gives it a free ride, bags out QF, pressures the staff, talks up doom and gloom.
Meanwhile QF soldiers on while Jetstar declines and the CEO is suprised??
