Merged: Tiger Tales
Guest
Posts: n/a
Kharon, I'm too lazy to search, but I'm sure you've made that same point with almost those same words before!
I'm not disagreeing, in fact I couldn't agree more, I find it interesting that the same lessons need to come out again.
This is aviation, we need to keep passing on the gen to the next cab off the rank.
Maybe this website is useful
I'm not disagreeing, in fact I couldn't agree more, I find it interesting that the same lessons need to come out again.
This is aviation, we need to keep passing on the gen to the next cab off the rank.
Maybe this website is useful
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big smile.
bdcer –I know; but if at first you don't succeed; try, try again. This industry is so used to being bullied by the regulator, dominated by the 'administrative' elements and browbeaten by 'management' that fear, confusion levels and an entrenched need, borne of desperation, to 'comply' and please everyone is actually reaching danger levels. There is a dire need to separate 'policy' preference from legal obligations, lest we get confused, duck it up and get fired.
I was aiming at the 'culture' drum, rather than the regulatory one, but they are almost indistinguishable from each other these dark days. The two quotes (and second coffee) set me off. Hopefully we'll get a change of both.
But, don't mind me; just an old work dog trying to yard a stroppy mob; bark, bark, bloody bark, all day long, and no one there to shut the flamin' gate. {thumbs up}.
I was aiming at the 'culture' drum, rather than the regulatory one, but they are almost indistinguishable from each other these dark days. The two quotes (and second coffee) set me off. Hopefully we'll get a change of both.
But, don't mind me; just an old work dog trying to yard a stroppy mob; bark, bark, bloody bark, all day long, and no one there to shut the flamin' gate. {thumbs up}.
Its called cultural SOPs. Not spelt out as a requirement but strongly recommended and then debriefed in route checks as being a better way of doing things. The prime example of this is QF1 where idle reverse and flap 25 led to a runway excursion as it is now described. As has been noted the cultural SOPs and the regulatory requirements are hard to distinguish.
Kharon, a good post. Difficult to disagree. These are the same pressures all captains face every day, of course.
That is the point surely. The LAW that gives the PIC authority and responsibility cannot be ignored or overridden by "policy" or culture SOPs. If an individual or company tries to do this then we end up with the situation Tiger had with their grounding.
My feeling is that there is more to this that we do not know (yet). A sacking is never undertaken lightly nowadays.
If, indeed in this instance that command prerogative is 'administratively' taken away; then command of the aircraft has been stolen and gifted, by the aircrew, to the clerical department.
My feeling is that there is more to this that we do not know (yet). A sacking is never undertaken lightly nowadays.
My IP address is not fixed. In saying that if the company wants to send PPRUNE owners a nice letter from their solicitors and get my or anyone's details, my understanding is that they will hand them over post haste.
Surely as long as what you have posted is true, then ok
Why do OEB's posts keep disappearing???
Surely as long as what you have posted is true, then ok
Why do OEB's posts keep disappearing???
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Noting the post I just read has been deleted, I would say the first 17 points appear factual (or at least one persons version of it) and are pretty damming
I would be very careful about the last point
I would be very careful about the last point
Interesting that anonymous posters don't get the same "protection" as those that make accusations against fellow staff behind the veil of anonymity and protection from management and company solicitors.
Truth hurts??
Sad indictment of the current climate of operations and business in Australia.
Truth hurts??
Sad indictment of the current climate of operations and business in Australia.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Servo, agreed. Those being wronged are treated with contempt and they are also victimised. Yet those doing the wrong thing are protected and supported and it is a disgrace. If OEB's posts are factual, and it would appear they are, then he should have reasonable rights to post as he has been doing, without having his posts removed.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: DSS-46 (Canberra Region)
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All of the missing posts (and there are a few) have been deleted by the various contributors who wrote them.
This may have been done for any number of reasons
Best ask them by PM.
This may have been done for any number of reasons
Best ask them by PM.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How sad
What a sad indictment on our industry, that people feel so exposed that they have to think twice about posting their knowledge of these despicable acts. So much so that they feel the need to delete them.
Systematic of a very dangerous culture.
Systematic of a very dangerous culture.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rum ain't it..
Just copy and paste the OEM post; then it can be disappeared for ever and no harm done. I thought it was just OEM playing at silly buggers, thx Tailwheel.
Is it possible to obtain further 'broad' information related to rumour 17; just an outline? It's just that three 'sick notes' seems to be a lot, unless it was an extended illness or 'stress relief' (which is understandable). Honourable folk, who want shut of a pilot, build a supported case first, then explain that services are no longer required, why that is so and offer the option of resignation. Should there be a dispute then mediation first, the courts a poor second are available.
But why, in an almost free country should your 'employer' feel a need to trace your IP address? you are not committing a criminal offence by having one, even if it's used to express your opinion, on your own equipment, in your own time on Pprune. Conversely, why would you need to give a toss if 'they' have it. 'They' have your home address, passport number, bank details, name of dependents, name of partner, email address, land and mobile telephone number, ASIC details and hat size: all freely given, without a shred of fear. Even if 'they' think they know who you are on Pprune, so what; who's to say it was 'you' tapping away at 'that' keyboard and even if it is; so what??.
Perhaps the really scary part is when you are able to be and 'they' believe they can, bluff you into a subservient position with the innuendo that the 'system' can and will be used against you; by fair means of foul, should the boat be rocked. Can an employer do that, with complete immunity? I think not..
Should any of you be unfortunate enough to work for a company that does not, by nature, act honourably, then it's time for you pay your money and take your chances with the rest and pray your union (association) has got the right boots on; before the match starts. VIPA seem run a good shop as does AIPA, not sure if the TWU accepts 'aircrew'.
I would like to draw your attention to the CVD issue based thread (Petition to Truss) which, like Topsy is expanding to encompass general medical matters and the way Avmed is currently being run. One of the many, many AAT cases examined there is very pertinent (IMO) to the current Tiger puzzle.
(Rumour 17) - Tigerair Gave Captain 2 hours to deliver 3 sick notes which is not required until retuning to work then sacked him.
DJ-Apooh? "your IP address can easily be traced by any half stupid IT department. I should know - an ex employer once gave me a 'cease and desist' 'chat' ".
Perhaps the really scary part is when you are able to be and 'they' believe they can, bluff you into a subservient position with the innuendo that the 'system' can and will be used against you; by fair means of foul, should the boat be rocked. Can an employer do that, with complete immunity? I think not..
Should any of you be unfortunate enough to work for a company that does not, by nature, act honourably, then it's time for you pay your money and take your chances with the rest and pray your union (association) has got the right boots on; before the match starts. VIPA seem run a good shop as does AIPA, not sure if the TWU accepts 'aircrew'.
I would like to draw your attention to the CVD issue based thread (Petition to Truss) which, like Topsy is expanding to encompass general medical matters and the way Avmed is currently being run. One of the many, many AAT cases examined there is very pertinent (IMO) to the current Tiger puzzle.
Last edited by Kharon; 11th Aug 2014 at 03:19. Reason: Something about haste and speed – I forget....
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is that a job ad, OEB?
In the aircraft I fly, I determine minimum fuel by topping up to the top of the filler neck. When no more will go in, that's enough. The only time you can have too much fuel is when - oh well, everybody knows that one.
In the aircraft I fly, I determine minimum fuel by topping up to the top of the filler neck. When no more will go in, that's enough. The only time you can have too much fuel is when - oh well, everybody knows that one.
It would seem that the number one and only priority for any CEO of a listed company is shareholder value. Is it because their remuneration is typically tied to such 
Certainly in Australia, it would appear to be the case. I know I was fooled.
Where is Herb Kelleher when you need him
Then you have the oversight of the industry by the regulator....................
Certainly in Australia, it would appear to be the case. I know I was fooled.
Where is Herb Kelleher when you need him
Then you have the oversight of the industry by the regulator....................
Last edited by Servo; 19th Aug 2014 at 11:36. Reason: spelling
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would seem that the number one and only priority for any CEO of a listed company is shareholder value. Is it because their remuneration is typically tied to such
And the only way to deliver that value proposition SUSTAINABLY is to have a happy, motivated, dare I say "engaged" workforce.
All this hairy chested union bashing, personal agenda stuff is just so much BS. Herb Keleher (and Jan Carlzon at SAS a decade before him) had the philosophy that if you aren't serving a customer, you had better be serving someone who is. And doing it well, I might add. Both gentlemen created huge value for shareholders, thrilled a flying public, and I don't think they had too many staff upset at them.
Where are managers of this calibre when we need them here?
I dont think there is ANY CEO in Aviation here in Australia that could even come close to Herb Kelleher.
Supposedly the Captain in question put on more fuel than required, yet in other airlines you have Captain(s) that actually take less than planned fuel and are still operating................
What a mess of an industry.
Supposedly the Captain in question put on more fuel than required, yet in other airlines you have Captain(s) that actually take less than planned fuel and are still operating................
What a mess of an industry.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In case anyone hasn't seen it, Tiger is getting a bit of stick on the front page of The Age, SMH as Australia's least reliable airline.
Australia's least-reliable airline
Australia's least-reliable airline
OTP is a manifestation of ego's. No need for it here in Australia other than a pi$$ing competition. Especially when both majors are within a few percent of each other and the "leader" changes daily.
What a joke.
Just another level of unnecessary pressure faced by those at the coal face.
Safety first, yeah right
What a joke.
Just another level of unnecessary pressure faced by those at the coal face.
Safety first, yeah right