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A CASA grounding is almost certain death for an airline.
I hope its a huge reminder for the noggin heads at other airlines.
SINGAPORE: Tiger Airways shares nosedived Monday after Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) grounded its local fleet until July 9, due to safety concerns.
Investors were unloading their shares despite the airline saying it remained committed to the Australian market in the long term.
At least five analysts -- from CIMB, Citi, CLSA, Credit Suisse and Phillip Securities -- have cut their ratings to sell following the announcement.
Tiger's stocks plunged 16 per cent or 19 cents to close at S$1.
Stephenson Harwood global head of aviation partner Paul Ng said: "If you look at last year's published results of the group, Tiger Australia was actually a loss-making component of the overall group.
Credit Suisse has said Tiger's days could be numbered, potentially to the benefit of Qantas and Virgin Australia whose shares respectively rose 6.5 per cent to AUD$1.97, and 10.5 per cent to 31.5 Australian cents, following Tiger's woes.
Tiger Airways shares plunge - Channel NewsAsia
I hope its a huge reminder for the noggin heads at other airlines.
SINGAPORE: Tiger Airways shares nosedived Monday after Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) grounded its local fleet until July 9, due to safety concerns.
Investors were unloading their shares despite the airline saying it remained committed to the Australian market in the long term.
At least five analysts -- from CIMB, Citi, CLSA, Credit Suisse and Phillip Securities -- have cut their ratings to sell following the announcement.
Tiger's stocks plunged 16 per cent or 19 cents to close at S$1.
Stephenson Harwood global head of aviation partner Paul Ng said: "If you look at last year's published results of the group, Tiger Australia was actually a loss-making component of the overall group.
Credit Suisse has said Tiger's days could be numbered, potentially to the benefit of Qantas and Virgin Australia whose shares respectively rose 6.5 per cent to AUD$1.97, and 10.5 per cent to 31.5 Australian cents, following Tiger's woes.
Tiger Airways shares plunge - Channel NewsAsia
Can someone please explain to me why Peter Gibson, PR from CASA keeps saying that CASA can only ground an airline for FIVE WORKING DAYS and then must go to the federal court to get an extension, when they grounded Tiger from 2300 Friday night until next Saturday at 0600.
Whichever way you look at it, that is seven days. Five WORKING (office wallah) days? Airlines are seven day businesses. If it is only FIVE then why are Sat & Sun added as well?
So why not have it take effect from Monday at 0600. I don't understand.
Secondly, Tony Davis has flown from Singapore to Melbourne for the sit down with CASA today, no press announcements other than on Saturday he said by phone that he disagreed with CASAs assessment. Does he disagree enough to see if he can get a judge to grant an injunction stopping CASA grounding them? Or is he worried that may upset the regulator?
Tiger have certainly gone to ground avoiding the media. No big ballsy statements and not returning calls from media outlets.
Whichever way you look at it, that is seven days. Five WORKING (office wallah) days? Airlines are seven day businesses. If it is only FIVE then why are Sat & Sun added as well?
So why not have it take effect from Monday at 0600. I don't understand.
Secondly, Tony Davis has flown from Singapore to Melbourne for the sit down with CASA today, no press announcements other than on Saturday he said by phone that he disagreed with CASAs assessment. Does he disagree enough to see if he can get a judge to grant an injunction stopping CASA grounding them? Or is he worried that may upset the regulator?
Tiger have certainly gone to ground avoiding the media. No big ballsy statements and not returning calls from media outlets.
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TGW Safety and Compliance Culture
TGW made very simple, wilful, deliberate and conscious decisions to not comply with the regulator. Essentially it was an ongoing and outright act of non-compliance and violation led, supported, condoned, encouraged, mandated, and enforced from the top team accountable and responsible, the nominated persons: the CEO/MD, and directors of flight ops, maintenance and training etc. TGW have had ample warning, opportunities and time to plan for, to change, to implement, to show and demonstrate to CASA an acceptable means of compliance. There was no ambush or surprise here, and yes CASA have been particularly patient and understanding, having tried to nudge and prod, to persuade, to encourage, convince and warn TGW to change attitude and behaviour and improve systems and processes. Mostly to no avail, too little and too late, and now an uncertain future, albeit a safer one whilst grounded at the moment, for TGW drivers, staff and passengers. This TGW non-compliance has resulted in the more harsh, big stick approach and draconian coercive suspension/grounding powers available to CASA. Instead of compliance, TGW decided to object, refuse, delay, ignore, deny, procrastinate, delay, postpone, and demonstrate their contempt for the regulations and the regulator. TGW are being duly rewarded for their actions and Australian aviation is safer as a result.
No one seems to be able to answer why TGW knowingly and deliberately choose the route of non-compliance, wilful violation, contempt for regulations and regulator and gross negligence? I am not convinced by the LCC “race to the bottom” argument. No person(s) and no financial situation actually force you to be unsafe.
This “Violations are OK Culture” led and promoted from the top very easily infiltrates and permeates throughout to the lower echelons. SOPs adherence is hardly going to be emphasized, promoted and enforced amongst the troops when a “she’ll be right”, “don’t worry, I know best” and “we do it our way and not the CASA way” approach is demonstrated by those nominated to command the operation and other senior and middle and pilot and maintenance management. For example Davis in his public comments to date remains in complete denial and has refused to accept the regulator’s view and instructions. Rix has simply been silent.
Normally we as the bus drivers at the sharp and “active” end expect and demand that our management and pilot management team who are ever so much more influential at the “latent” level do lead us by example when it comes to safety and compliance. Yes, we all make errors and mistakes, which of course we gladly and confidentially immediately report in a “just culture” environment. And from which genuine errors, mistakes and lapses as from any incident/accident we try to learn the lessons as quickly as possible, and we hopefully speedily re-focus our attention and do not repeat. Yes, sometimes with an associated little “discipline”, maybe with the assistance of some gentle remedial instruction and guidance, and re-training and checking to the required standard if necessary (or “immediate” proficiency checks for the complete pilot corps in TGW’s case). But who amongst our corps of aviation safety professionals makes a practice of indulging in deliberate and wilful violations?
This “violations are ok culture” has no place in a safety critical and highly regulated industry like commercial aviation. Notwithstanding the dramatic effect this week on our TGW aviation colleagues and passengers, CASA is to be commended and applauded for this decision. The ultimate result of this risk assessment last week is that you cannot crash if your A320 on ground and secured and parked up against the fence. Yes CASA should apply the same level of interest in TGW’s competitors and other commercial operators. I certainly hope and pray that TGW can respond, change and comply quickly, to improve the systems and processes, to revisit its business model and to resume stronger, more resilient, safer and lower risk operations asap. If necessary remove all the cowboys and cowgirls from of the cowboy outfit if the big stick approach to attitude adjustment fails. Parent Tiger Airways Holdings and its main investers such as SIA, if they are seriously in for the long haul, must provide the required resources and management impetus, direction and competence to turn this around. Agreed, CASA is not without fault here, and can itself learn that for the future, a much improved screening and assessment process pre AOC issue and a more thorough process of approving and monitoring those accountable and responsible nominated persons and “unapproving” them if necessary will also help to avoid this type of occurrence in the future. A much needed wake up call for all of us, the regulator and all Australian commercial aviation. Only then out of something bad will something good come. Our paying punters and freight aft of the cockpit door deserve nothing less.
Safety is no accident, and if you can’t be safe, then be bloody careful!
No one seems to be able to answer why TGW knowingly and deliberately choose the route of non-compliance, wilful violation, contempt for regulations and regulator and gross negligence? I am not convinced by the LCC “race to the bottom” argument. No person(s) and no financial situation actually force you to be unsafe.
This “Violations are OK Culture” led and promoted from the top very easily infiltrates and permeates throughout to the lower echelons. SOPs adherence is hardly going to be emphasized, promoted and enforced amongst the troops when a “she’ll be right”, “don’t worry, I know best” and “we do it our way and not the CASA way” approach is demonstrated by those nominated to command the operation and other senior and middle and pilot and maintenance management. For example Davis in his public comments to date remains in complete denial and has refused to accept the regulator’s view and instructions. Rix has simply been silent.
Normally we as the bus drivers at the sharp and “active” end expect and demand that our management and pilot management team who are ever so much more influential at the “latent” level do lead us by example when it comes to safety and compliance. Yes, we all make errors and mistakes, which of course we gladly and confidentially immediately report in a “just culture” environment. And from which genuine errors, mistakes and lapses as from any incident/accident we try to learn the lessons as quickly as possible, and we hopefully speedily re-focus our attention and do not repeat. Yes, sometimes with an associated little “discipline”, maybe with the assistance of some gentle remedial instruction and guidance, and re-training and checking to the required standard if necessary (or “immediate” proficiency checks for the complete pilot corps in TGW’s case). But who amongst our corps of aviation safety professionals makes a practice of indulging in deliberate and wilful violations?
This “violations are ok culture” has no place in a safety critical and highly regulated industry like commercial aviation. Notwithstanding the dramatic effect this week on our TGW aviation colleagues and passengers, CASA is to be commended and applauded for this decision. The ultimate result of this risk assessment last week is that you cannot crash if your A320 on ground and secured and parked up against the fence. Yes CASA should apply the same level of interest in TGW’s competitors and other commercial operators. I certainly hope and pray that TGW can respond, change and comply quickly, to improve the systems and processes, to revisit its business model and to resume stronger, more resilient, safer and lower risk operations asap. If necessary remove all the cowboys and cowgirls from of the cowboy outfit if the big stick approach to attitude adjustment fails. Parent Tiger Airways Holdings and its main investers such as SIA, if they are seriously in for the long haul, must provide the required resources and management impetus, direction and competence to turn this around. Agreed, CASA is not without fault here, and can itself learn that for the future, a much improved screening and assessment process pre AOC issue and a more thorough process of approving and monitoring those accountable and responsible nominated persons and “unapproving” them if necessary will also help to avoid this type of occurrence in the future. A much needed wake up call for all of us, the regulator and all Australian commercial aviation. Only then out of something bad will something good come. Our paying punters and freight aft of the cockpit door deserve nothing less.
Safety is no accident, and if you can’t be safe, then be bloody careful!
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A lot of unsubstantiated accusations there vianostra
You sound just like another one of these aviation experts that are all over the media at the moment crucifying this airline by heresay.
You sound just like another one of these aviation experts that are all over the media at the moment crucifying this airline by heresay.
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Vionostra you claim all these assertions as fact. Do you work inside Tiger's management? Then how would you have any idea who did what and when?
My sources say all the flight ops and safety managers had been at odds with their MD's since start up, and that past safety manager and training boss had resigned as a result. Also that the most recent CP and training manager had been arguing for resources for years and had already announced their intention to resign before the show cause.
Management turn over at Tiger has been horrendous, so perhaps you should be careful who you accuse of creating this mess. The immediate past CP (KB) remains a highly regarded member of our OZ pilot community and his motivations have never been in doubt.
I'd be looking further up...
My sources say all the flight ops and safety managers had been at odds with their MD's since start up, and that past safety manager and training boss had resigned as a result. Also that the most recent CP and training manager had been arguing for resources for years and had already announced their intention to resign before the show cause.
Management turn over at Tiger has been horrendous, so perhaps you should be careful who you accuse of creating this mess. The immediate past CP (KB) remains a highly regarded member of our OZ pilot community and his motivations have never been in doubt.
I'd be looking further up...
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Welcome to Asia.
Australian politicians and business leaders have been pushing for closer ties and trying to emulate Asian business practices and costs for years. Well "if you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas".
Nothing personal, just a fact of doing business with the neighbors and the business culture. Now lets see who pulls out the racist card.
Australian politicians and business leaders have been pushing for closer ties and trying to emulate Asian business practices and costs for years. Well "if you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas".
Nothing personal, just a fact of doing business with the neighbors and the business culture. Now lets see who pulls out the racist card.
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"...CASA is to be commended and applauded for this decision."
I read the SA government gave Tiger $2.5M and another $900k from the tourist commission. They are claiming breach of contract after Tiger pulled out of ADL and want every cent back from Tiger
Apparently Tiger initially requested $10M of South Australian tax payers money.
I wonder how QF and VB feel about this and how much money was paid to Tiger to operate to DRW, ROK and MKY ?
The news keeps getting worse for Tiger and I suspect the flying public will ultimately decide if they stay with a reduced operation or go home to SIN.
There is a whisper CASA may visit Tiger in SIN to review their operation. If Tiger in SIN were to loose their Aust Foreign AOC the service between SIN and PER would be doomed
I wonder how QF and VB feel about this and how much money was paid to Tiger to operate to DRW, ROK and MKY ?
The news keeps getting worse for Tiger and I suspect the flying public will ultimately decide if they stay with a reduced operation or go home to SIN.
There is a whisper CASA may visit Tiger in SIN to review their operation. If Tiger in SIN were to loose their Aust Foreign AOC the service between SIN and PER would be doomed
Last edited by B772; 5th Jul 2011 at 02:26.
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The ops pilots fight on a daily basis for the greater good for all.
Casa are just sick of arguing with the top.
Unfortunately the employees who try their best to maintain the highest level of professionalism are the collateral damage..
Casa are just sick of arguing with the top.
Unfortunately the employees who try their best to maintain the highest level of professionalism are the collateral damage..
If the allegations are true, to an outsider it seems like there are some poorly trained, incompetent pilots (along with many experienced ones it sounds like), and Tiger management isn't willing to fix that in a manner suitable to CASA. Surely this is frustrating to the experienced, hardworking pilots who fly safely, but how can you say that every worker is 100% doing their job when incidents like this happen (if true as alleged). Am I missing something obvious here?
and re-training and checking to the required standard if necessary (or “immediate” proficiency checks for the complete pilot corps in TGW’s case).
I am trying to understand the issues which link high level management oversight deficiencies and prof checking of crews.
I have worked for Tiger and can say Tutaewera and joblogs are completely correct! Routine CASA audits were viewed by many as a chance to finally get much needed resources and competent people in the office after constant battles, ultimately with the CEO.. I've got a feeling CASA want Tiger (CEO/MD) to lift their game instead of constantly having to tell them what they're doing wrong and what they need to do to keep running.
More news on the ongoing saga.
An SQ senior executive has been 'loaned' to Tiger in SIN to run the Asian operation while Tony Davis concentrates on the Australian operation. (I wonder where this leaves Crawford Rix).
As at 31 March Tiger in Australia only had $2.2M cash on the balance sheet. With revenues of $4M approx. per week this would suggest Tiger Australia will need major financial support from Tiger Singapore for a 1 week grounding, especially as most disrupted passengers are believed to be asking for a refund rather than a credit for future flights.
Should the grounding be for a number of weeks a great deal of financial support from SIN will be required and there could be interesting times ahead for the pilots and cabin crew.
It appears Tiger will have to 'spend money' to meet new requirements from CASA which will result in higher airfares and make them less competitive. No doubt CASA will be also looking closely at the financial aspects when reviewing the AOC status..
Ps. Air NZ have just increased their ownership of VBA from 14.19% to 14.99%.
An SQ senior executive has been 'loaned' to Tiger in SIN to run the Asian operation while Tony Davis concentrates on the Australian operation. (I wonder where this leaves Crawford Rix).
As at 31 March Tiger in Australia only had $2.2M cash on the balance sheet. With revenues of $4M approx. per week this would suggest Tiger Australia will need major financial support from Tiger Singapore for a 1 week grounding, especially as most disrupted passengers are believed to be asking for a refund rather than a credit for future flights.
Should the grounding be for a number of weeks a great deal of financial support from SIN will be required and there could be interesting times ahead for the pilots and cabin crew.
It appears Tiger will have to 'spend money' to meet new requirements from CASA which will result in higher airfares and make them less competitive. No doubt CASA will be also looking closely at the financial aspects when reviewing the AOC status..
Ps. Air NZ have just increased their ownership of VBA from 14.19% to 14.99%.
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I wouldn't worry too much about TT's financials as they always have been propped up by TR. Tiger Singapore has been pulling in $60 million of profit last year and a even higher profit was forecasted for this year, they are also debt free. Tiger Australia has only lost 10 million over the last two years...
It's the same with Jetstar Asia expect the other way around, 3K is being supported by JQ/QF, while 3K has a relatively no money in the bank.
Don't forget any money Tiger makes here is converted to SGD, and it's in their best interests considering the strong $...
It's the same with Jetstar Asia expect the other way around, 3K is being supported by JQ/QF, while 3K has a relatively no money in the bank.
Don't forget any money Tiger makes here is converted to SGD, and it's in their best interests considering the strong $...
Last edited by wheels_down; 5th Jul 2011 at 06:07.
As if the last two years Tiger Australia has only lost 10 million.
Don't forget any money Tiger makes here is converted to SGD, and it's in their best interests considering the strong $...
Tiger doesn't employ anyone directly to do their maintenance. It's completely farmed out to 3rd party providers, of course at the lowest cost. They get the flexibility to tell the providers to only do what they're told to do.
Of course putting yourself in the 3rd party providers shoes, if you're getting paid bugger-all to service the contract you're only going to do what you absolutely have to do as per the terms of the contract.
If there are concerns from CASA about maintenance standards, then its either the fault of a major 3rd party provider in this country (which I'm sure if it were at fault it would be in trouble, not Tiger), or its the department which is controlling/scheduling what maintenance is to be done within.
Of course putting yourself in the 3rd party providers shoes, if you're getting paid bugger-all to service the contract you're only going to do what you absolutely have to do as per the terms of the contract.
If there are concerns from CASA about maintenance standards, then its either the fault of a major 3rd party provider in this country (which I'm sure if it were at fault it would be in trouble, not Tiger), or its the department which is controlling/scheduling what maintenance is to be done within.
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If there are concerns from CASA about maintenance standards, then its either the fault of a major 3rd party provider in this country (which I'm sure if it were at fault it would be in trouble, not Tiger), or its the department which is controlling/scheduling what maintenance is to be done within.
I doubt that Tigger would get away with saying "I paid Winnie and Piglet to do all my (Boeing required) maintenance, look, here's the receipts so it's all good".
While CASA wouldn't be too happy with Winnie, Piglet and all the other animals in the 40 acre wood, I suspect that the biggest huffin' and puffin' would still be directed at Tigger ......
ST