Airservices Australia ADS-B program - another Seasprite Fiasco?
I'll see your analogy, and raise you one, ferris!
The flaw I perceive in your analogy, ferris, is that in it I have the problem (getting rained on), and someone else is magnanimously offering to fix my problem for me, free (giving me a coat).
In the context of the ADSB debate, someone else has the problem, and they propose to fix it by giving me a problem.
A 'subsidy' is not a guarantee to meet $ for $ fitment costs. Even if it were, it will not cover ongoing maintenance and upgrade costs. For reasons I have explained, if the chosen subsidised system ends up being an orphan, ongoing maintenance and upgrade costs will become increasingly expensive.
I may get an up front bill for fitment, and I will definitely get ongoing bills, for something I may not want or need.
The more accurate analogy in my view is this:
A bunch of farmers haven't got enough water.
Solution: Mandate mains water restrictions and subsidise the fitment of water tanks and electric pumps in the cities, so that more water can be released from city dams for use downstream by farmers.
A person in the city might say: Hang on a sec, me and a bunch of other people in this city have paid, and continue to pay, a lot of money in rates to build and maintain dams. I don't want or need a water tank and pump, subsidised or not. I'm not the cause of the profligate waste of gigalitres of water on marginal and inefficient farms that would have been broke long ago, if they'd had to pay even a fraction of what I have to pay for water. And by the way, I've just found out that the electric pump was designed and built by a company that's gone out of business and the spare parts are difficult to find and getting more expensive. Remind me again why this should be my problem?
Now as it turns out, I'm personally happy to make sacrifices to help efficient farmers. However, if I'm going to get a subsidised electric pump (ASDB black boxes), I want one that isn't going to become an expensive orphan. I agree entirely with plankbender:
Which ASDB box is that?
In the context of the ADSB debate, someone else has the problem, and they propose to fix it by giving me a problem.
A 'subsidy' is not a guarantee to meet $ for $ fitment costs. Even if it were, it will not cover ongoing maintenance and upgrade costs. For reasons I have explained, if the chosen subsidised system ends up being an orphan, ongoing maintenance and upgrade costs will become increasingly expensive.
I may get an up front bill for fitment, and I will definitely get ongoing bills, for something I may not want or need.
The more accurate analogy in my view is this:
A bunch of farmers haven't got enough water.
Solution: Mandate mains water restrictions and subsidise the fitment of water tanks and electric pumps in the cities, so that more water can be released from city dams for use downstream by farmers.
A person in the city might say: Hang on a sec, me and a bunch of other people in this city have paid, and continue to pay, a lot of money in rates to build and maintain dams. I don't want or need a water tank and pump, subsidised or not. I'm not the cause of the profligate waste of gigalitres of water on marginal and inefficient farms that would have been broke long ago, if they'd had to pay even a fraction of what I have to pay for water. And by the way, I've just found out that the electric pump was designed and built by a company that's gone out of business and the spare parts are difficult to find and getting more expensive. Remind me again why this should be my problem?
Now as it turns out, I'm personally happy to make sacrifices to help efficient farmers. However, if I'm going to get a subsidised electric pump (ASDB black boxes), I want one that isn't going to become an expensive orphan. I agree entirely with plankbender:
Australia has a minor percentage of the global aviation market. The only way we will get affordable avionics here is to adopt the solution of the largest player in the market.
...Insurers will hardly be pushing an unknown either.
IMHO, UAV insurence will be a big market for the aviation insurers.
As I said, I'm thinking ADS-B will be required for any expansion in UAV operations so I would expect the insurers will be pushing to get ADS-B in ASAP - the sooner to be profiting from it all
... of course, when the terrorist GPS guided Buzz Bombs turn up - no ADS-B.
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Beach King
I would never suggest ADS-B as a first line tool for rescue (unless you intend to crash within repeater range
)
A PLB with embedded GPS for around $600 will get you an instant alert, 20 minute updates of position, identification if registered, and does not go down in the water or up in the fire.
Certainly if in ADS-B range the last track info would be of value, but the PLB strikes me as more bang for the buck.
I would never suggest ADS-B as a first line tool for rescue (unless you intend to crash within repeater range
)A PLB with embedded GPS for around $600 will get you an instant alert, 20 minute updates of position, identification if registered, and does not go down in the water or up in the fire.
Certainly if in ADS-B range the last track info would be of value, but the PLB strikes me as more bang for the buck.
Can we just take a step back a bit?
I think we are trying to portray ADS-B as rocket science. In it's simplest form, we all understand how GPS works, we also understand how we can use the NMEA signal from that GPS to drive moving maps and information for engine monitors. It is quite versatile. Once you can derive your position accurately you can calculate your actual performance, fuel economy as derived as distance left in the tanks and the like.
As for availability? Any manufacturer that produces a modeS transponder already has the equipment needed to install ADS-B. It isn't complicated.
Mode S transponders are only different from ModeAC transponders is the ability to transmit a stream of data in very small packets. ADS-B is the joining of this ability for a transponder to transmit data and the GPS to provide position data to other equipment. In this case the modeS transponder. The band used is 1090MHz and the transmission is an extended squitter comprising information including 24bit individual registration, position height speed and direction, transmitted at least every second, hence 1090ES......it isn't rocket science.
MicroAir have the TL2000S that will be developed into an ADS-B transponder, they actually provided the tranponder that operated in the Bundaberg trials-
These guys are already setup to push for certification as soon as AirServices is ready to go. Our small market will lever a little Australian company into Europe. The Europeans even look at this little Bundaberg company as very serious competition.
Creampuff, even looking at photographs of the ground receiver taking up two standard equipment racks plus a UPS compared to an entire complex to drive a SSR unit. (Remember, this unit is not a radar as such. It transmits an interogation signal to a transponder that activates its own signal which is received. The SSR receives the signal and by process of knowing where the receiver was pointing at the time and the time taken to receiver a return signal after its own interogation signal it is able to deduce that there is a transponder a certain distance and direction from the aerial....very old world
) So two boxes mounted alongside any telecom installation compared to an entire hilltop establishment, doesn't take much processing power to work out where AirServices get their very real savings from.
Hope this helps the process.
I think we are trying to portray ADS-B as rocket science. In it's simplest form, we all understand how GPS works, we also understand how we can use the NMEA signal from that GPS to drive moving maps and information for engine monitors. It is quite versatile. Once you can derive your position accurately you can calculate your actual performance, fuel economy as derived as distance left in the tanks and the like.
As for availability? Any manufacturer that produces a modeS transponder already has the equipment needed to install ADS-B. It isn't complicated.
Mode S transponders are only different from ModeAC transponders is the ability to transmit a stream of data in very small packets. ADS-B is the joining of this ability for a transponder to transmit data and the GPS to provide position data to other equipment. In this case the modeS transponder. The band used is 1090MHz and the transmission is an extended squitter comprising information including 24bit individual registration, position height speed and direction, transmitted at least every second, hence 1090ES......it isn't rocket science.
MicroAir have the TL2000S that will be developed into an ADS-B transponder, they actually provided the tranponder that operated in the Bundaberg trials-
Microair is currently developing an ADS-B Transponder to suit the expected mandate to be issued by CASA and implemented by Air Services Australia in line with the installation of ADS-B ground stations that will give radar-like coverage to over 99% of Australian airspace.
After ADS-B the transponder will be re-configured to a Mode S Transponder to suit the new requirements in the European marketplace.
After ADS-B the transponder will be re-configured to a Mode S Transponder to suit the new requirements in the European marketplace.
Creampuff, even looking at photographs of the ground receiver taking up two standard equipment racks plus a UPS compared to an entire complex to drive a SSR unit. (Remember, this unit is not a radar as such. It transmits an interogation signal to a transponder that activates its own signal which is received. The SSR receives the signal and by process of knowing where the receiver was pointing at the time and the time taken to receiver a return signal after its own interogation signal it is able to deduce that there is a transponder a certain distance and direction from the aerial....very old world
) So two boxes mounted alongside any telecom installation compared to an entire hilltop establishment, doesn't take much processing power to work out where AirServices get their very real savings from.Hope this helps the process.
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In light of the on going debate I thought it would be interesting to see what AOPA's view of ADS-B is.
The following excerpts are taken from The Australian Strategic Air Traffic Management Group ADS-B Implementation Team (ABIT) 15 March, 2007, AOPA Position on ADS-B Prepared by Brian Hannan, AOPA Document available at http://astra.aero/downloads/ABIT/ABI...A_Position.pdf
My bold and underlining.
The following excerpts are taken from The Australian Strategic Air Traffic Management Group ADS-B Implementation Team (ABIT) 15 March, 2007, AOPA Position on ADS-B Prepared by Brian Hannan, AOPA Document available at http://astra.aero/downloads/ABIT/ABI...A_Position.pdf
We consider ASD-B is a logical emergent of technology advance and support ADS-B concepts for safety and flight economies - but believe benefits accrue primarily to RPT and ATC. Gains to GA are miniscule in comparison to cost and may represent overall negatives in installation and maintenance expense and, under a full mandate, the introduction of surveillance (not warranted by asafety case) to Class G airspace. The introduction of transponders for VFR operations in Class E airspace was unhelpful to our members. We will be seeking a cost-benefit or safety case justification in any ADS-B proposal.
We read ICAO desire for 1090ES at flight levels and support the simplicity of only one technology (1090ES) for Australia at all levels. However, we do not wish yet another unique Australian system - therefore we will also be guided by overseas experiences. The FAA proposal of dual technologies is attractive to GA at lower levels because of the potential equipment cost savings and choice through economies of scale for GA in volume
production and sale of UAT ADS-B, and probable early introduction of ADS-B In equipment. UAT uplink capability currently offers little benefit locally as economies of scale do not exist in Australia to attract service providers, nor is weather information by ADS-B important to those we canvassed. Nevertheless, anecdotal information from the USA suggests that demand for weather-in-the-cockpit could materialise if a solution for Australia was
demonstrable.
Airservices could review the lack of any brief before, and limited communication after, withdrawal of the RFP as it hindered progress and caused negative perceptions. However, since the 2006 situation is now history, we conclude that GA’s interests will be best served by awaiting the emergence of suitable products from the evolutionary process and closely
observing overseas developments including consequences of the FAA requirement to equip aircraft for automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) by 2020 to enter selected airspace.
We read ICAO desire for 1090ES at flight levels and support the simplicity of only one technology (1090ES) for Australia at all levels. However, we do not wish yet another unique Australian system - therefore we will also be guided by overseas experiences. The FAA proposal of dual technologies is attractive to GA at lower levels because of the potential equipment cost savings and choice through economies of scale for GA in volume
production and sale of UAT ADS-B, and probable early introduction of ADS-B In equipment. UAT uplink capability currently offers little benefit locally as economies of scale do not exist in Australia to attract service providers, nor is weather information by ADS-B important to those we canvassed. Nevertheless, anecdotal information from the USA suggests that demand for weather-in-the-cockpit could materialise if a solution for Australia was
demonstrable.
Airservices could review the lack of any brief before, and limited communication after, withdrawal of the RFP as it hindered progress and caused negative perceptions. However, since the 2006 situation is now history, we conclude that GA’s interests will be best served by awaiting the emergence of suitable products from the evolutionary process and closely
observing overseas developments including consequences of the FAA requirement to equip aircraft for automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) by 2020 to enter selected airspace.
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MJBOW
Great to note AOPA making such a a strong statement for its members interests. Obviously he won't be getting a consultant's job with Airservices after kicking them in the intestines like that
On reflection, it must have been well received in the halls of power and perhaps was the catalyst for the August 2007 JCP with its offer of the subsidy that has changed the whole ball game. Actually, those whole three paragraphs just about become meaningless if the subsidy covers the GA fitment costs, don't they?
I am told AOPA has written to Airservices to request a review of GA charging and a commitment to no increased cover. That would remove the concern about extension of GA charging with ADS-B.
AOPA seems to be keeping well across the ADS-B matter, and the constant changes in the national and international situation. Like technology change itself, the ADS-B position must be something they need to review almost daily in such a volatile environment.
Thank you for bringing that piece of the history of ADS-B to attention - such a lot has changed in sixteen months, no?
Great to note AOPA making such a a strong statement for its members interests. Obviously he won't be getting a consultant's job with Airservices after kicking them in the intestines like that
On reflection, it must have been well received in the halls of power and perhaps was the catalyst for the August 2007 JCP with its offer of the subsidy that has changed the whole ball game. Actually, those whole three paragraphs just about become meaningless if the subsidy covers the GA fitment costs, don't they?
I am told AOPA has written to Airservices to request a review of GA charging and a commitment to no increased cover. That would remove the concern about extension of GA charging with ADS-B.
AOPA seems to be keeping well across the ADS-B matter, and the constant changes in the national and international situation. Like technology change itself, the ADS-B position must be something they need to review almost daily in such a volatile environment.
Thank you for bringing that piece of the history of ADS-B to attention - such a lot has changed in sixteen months, no?
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Bushy
I'm not certain why you thought that - I don't think I did- but it's a fair point.
Drag out your battered PCA and you will note that VHF covers 99% of the country - if you are at FL400.
Ditto ADS-B, plus around the locations they put repeaters will get coverage to ground.
I suspect don't expect to fly AS to Kings Creek at 500' AGL and be in ADS-B cover when it comes in.
Same goes for radar. One thing to be on TAAATS on descent to SY thru 10,000', but there are other areas nearby where you won't be on radar at 500' AGL.
That's why I still recommend the 406PLB as the safety item. Something you can also carry when flying in your mate's Jabiru that may not get the subsidy, or when off on the weekend for a beer at Timber creek by 4WD.
I'm not certain why you thought that - I don't think I did- but it's a fair point.
Drag out your battered PCA and you will note that VHF covers 99% of the country - if you are at FL400.
Ditto ADS-B, plus around the locations they put repeaters will get coverage to ground.
I suspect don't expect to fly AS to Kings Creek at 500' AGL and be in ADS-B cover when it comes in.
Same goes for radar. One thing to be on TAAATS on descent to SY thru 10,000', but there are other areas nearby where you won't be on radar at 500' AGL.
That's why I still recommend the 406PLB as the safety item. Something you can also carry when flying in your mate's Jabiru that may not get the subsidy, or when off on the weekend for a beer at Timber creek by 4WD.
My submission was to voice an opinion against using ADS-B as a charging regime. This wasn't part of the JCP.
I am very aware of what AirServices think are the chances of blanketing the continent with uplinks to faciltate UAT operation as per the US. So, safe to say, it will not be under the Christmas tree any time soon.
My point then, and using XMWX services as the example. Even as big as the aviation industry is in the US, the guys who created the satellite weather service knew that aviation alone could not pay for the service and satellite. They created satellite subscription radio for the general population and used the funds created from this to cross-subsidise the aviation service. That view hasn't changed. There was a scientist from Charles darwin Uni that proposed using the mobile phone network for internet access to provide a similar facility as provided by XMWX. I have to say, the method does work. I have nav software with moving map and gps that uses the mobile network to download current radar images for the current position, provided there is mobile coverage and metrad coverage for the position.
JM, it is a fair bet that the low level rollout will be installation at busy regional aerodromes, especially those that USED to have a tower and especially around the mineral provinces in WA. Any aerodrome that has a Dash service or bigger and then any aerodrome that has a published approach.
I am very aware of what AirServices think are the chances of blanketing the continent with uplinks to faciltate UAT operation as per the US. So, safe to say, it will not be under the Christmas tree any time soon.
My point then, and using XMWX services as the example. Even as big as the aviation industry is in the US, the guys who created the satellite weather service knew that aviation alone could not pay for the service and satellite. They created satellite subscription radio for the general population and used the funds created from this to cross-subsidise the aviation service. That view hasn't changed. There was a scientist from Charles darwin Uni that proposed using the mobile phone network for internet access to provide a similar facility as provided by XMWX. I have to say, the method does work. I have nav software with moving map and gps that uses the mobile network to download current radar images for the current position, provided there is mobile coverage and metrad coverage for the position.
JM, it is a fair bet that the low level rollout will be installation at busy regional aerodromes, especially those that USED to have a tower and especially around the mineral provinces in WA. Any aerodrome that has a Dash service or bigger and then any aerodrome that has a published approach.
your mate's Jabiru that may not get the subsidy
At present ADS-B are still expected to cost north of $10,000 (and still no video game screen on the panel) and thats only for the ADS-B - might be some costly plumbing issues to overcome on many RAAus aircraft. And I wonder if new aircraft in future will get this 'subsidy' ???
My understanding is that the ultralight crew think similar to AOPA, ref via mjbow2. Apparently, the majoritie of ultralights dont fly at 20,000 + feet so dont really need the ADS-B.
Perhaps an Ultralighter would care to outline the RAAus position.
james michael, so far you have not been able to offer any serious rebuttle to the GPS guided Buzz Bomb scenario - thats the scenario you have tried on many occasions to rebut. Thats the scenario that could bring the ADS-B system to an end over-night
...and the scenario is only one of the reasons I believe we should keep our present robust ATC system
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bushy
The ADSB coverage is basically line-of-sight and about what you'd get with a VOR.,
Using a distance to the horizon formula, this means that if you're at 9500' then you'll need to be within 110nm or so from a base station to be 'visible' to ATC.
At 5000' that shrinks to around 80nm.
The JCP had a pretty picture that showed the proposed coverage at 10000' and it looked somewhat sparse, meaning that at 5000' the coverage would be very spotty.
Which is why I wanted some form of ADSB-IN to be able to manage my own seperation in class E & G when ATC can't 'see' me.
The ADSB coverage is basically line-of-sight and about what you'd get with a VOR.,
Using a distance to the horizon formula, this means that if you're at 9500' then you'll need to be within 110nm or so from a base station to be 'visible' to ATC.
At 5000' that shrinks to around 80nm.
The JCP had a pretty picture that showed the proposed coverage at 10000' and it looked somewhat sparse, meaning that at 5000' the coverage would be very spotty.
Which is why I wanted some form of ADSB-IN to be able to manage my own seperation in class E & G when ATC can't 'see' me.
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OZ
Agreed. WA a likely hot spot but CTAF R where PTO fly are all likely candidates.
If Airservices succeed with their Unicom trials, imagine the possible rollout of ADS-B supported Unicoms (provided CASA accept that a trained Unicom operator CAN do a few simple things).
But, we keep getting told about the ADS-B mandate
So I guess you and I are just dreaming 
- or perhaps in Jabba terms "barking" up the wrong tree (woof) (Just joking Jabba but I am having trouble cocking my leg)
Bing
Apology, I missed your second last last post, must have crossed over each other.
No, ADS-B is NOT needed for UAV. They can work quite OK with transponder. trials have already so done, Kingfisher is proposed to go to FL with RPT, and don't forget that big white mother that flew from (I think) the USA to (was it) RAAF Edinburgh.
Unlike my landings, software capability has allowed some UAV to gentle on to terra firma by themselves. They also have a 'loiter' mode if needed.
I think the insurers will concentrate on looking for Rating 1 drivers and homes away from flood, fire, and wind to make their money.
Edited to add, Bing you posted again while I was preparing this so I have altered above to second last post.
Re your most recent post, I am not even attempting to rebut your buzz bomb scenario because my calculator rolled up a statistical probability of infinity of zeros to the nth place. Possibly you should retrieve your 'terror line' fridge magnet from behind your compass and let ASIO know of the threat
Agreed. WA a likely hot spot but CTAF R where PTO fly are all likely candidates.
If Airservices succeed with their Unicom trials, imagine the possible rollout of ADS-B supported Unicoms (provided CASA accept that a trained Unicom operator CAN do a few simple things).
But, we keep getting told about the ADS-B mandate
no measurable safety issue is being addressed
- or perhaps in Jabba terms "barking" up the wrong tree (woof) (Just joking Jabba but I am having trouble cocking my leg)Bing
Apology, I missed your second last last post, must have crossed over each other.
No, ADS-B is NOT needed for UAV. They can work quite OK with transponder. trials have already so done, Kingfisher is proposed to go to FL with RPT, and don't forget that big white mother that flew from (I think) the USA to (was it) RAAF Edinburgh.
Unlike my landings, software capability has allowed some UAV to gentle on to terra firma by themselves. They also have a 'loiter' mode if needed.
I think the insurers will concentrate on looking for Rating 1 drivers and homes away from flood, fire, and wind to make their money.
Edited to add, Bing you posted again while I was preparing this so I have altered above to second last post.
Re your most recent post, I am not even attempting to rebut your buzz bomb scenario because my calculator rolled up a statistical probability of infinity of zeros to the nth place. Possibly you should retrieve your 'terror line' fridge magnet from behind your compass and let ASIO know of the threat
JM, have trawled around the ASTRA site and now see that Meekatharra, Newman, Telfer, Leonora and Caiguna will be up and running by DEC08. These sites were consider high priority. FIFO will get a whole lot safer in WA.
EDIT- and one for the greenies. ADS-B has been approved by world heritage to be installed at Lord Howe Island.
EDIT- and one for the greenies. ADS-B has been approved by world heritage to be installed at Lord Howe Island.
There was a scientist from Charles darwin Uni that proposed using the mobile phone network for internet access to provide a similar facility as provided by XMWX. I have to say, the method does work. I have nav software with moving map and gps that uses the mobile network to download current radar images for the current position, provided there is mobile coverage and metrad coverage for the position.
I am not even attempting to rebut your buzz bomb scenario because my calculator rolled up a statistical probability of infinity of zeros to the nth place.
james michael, you sound like you have taken a 'Maginot line' mentality towards known threats
let ASIO know of the threat
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Remember, no measurable safety issue is being addressed in mandating ADS-B for VFR aircraft.
In response, your reply was to express a personal disbelief on your part that the RFDS would support the mandatory introduction of ADS-B due to the cost of installation. I am pleased to read earlier that you have contacted the RFDS in WA and have discovered that they support the installation of ADS-B in their entire fleet.
For the readers...
The Close Proximity was in Class G Airspace between an IFR RFDS aircraft and a VFR crop-duster. We know that it was a VFR crop-duster because the pilot of the RFDS aircraft saw the crop-duster as the two aircraft nearly collided.
I as the controller had no information on the crop-duster and at no stage had the crop-duster requested a service on VHF, nor had the pilot made any broadcasts on the Area frequency.
The RFDS aircraft called on departure and stated that he had "nearly collided with a crop-duster". He attempted to call the pilot of the crop-duster on VHF and received no response. I (the Air Traffic Controller monitoring the frequency and providing a Class G Airspace service) attempted to call the pilot of the crop-duster and received no response. The pilot of the RFDS aircraft stated that the crop-duster did not appear on his TCAS and asked me if I could see the aircraft on RADAR... I could not.
No transponder.
No VHF.
There was no avoiding action taken by either aircraft because they failed to get visual with each other.
See-And-Avoid failed.
Call-And-Respond failed.
Third Party surveillance and intervention failed.
If the crop-duster had been equipped with a 1090ES ADS-B Transponder as per a mandatory requirement for fitment by GA aircraft, the following would have occurred...
The crop-duster's 1090ES ADS-B Transponder would have powered up at start-up and would have broadcast the aircraft's position airborne.
I would have seen the crop-duster operating in close proximity to the airstrip and the RFDS aircraft would have received that information as Traffic Advice at Taxi stage.
The RFDS aircraft would have attempted to contact the crop-duster on VHF and after failing to gain two-way communications with the crop-duster, would, in all likelihood, have delayed departure until I had the advised the RFDS aircraft that the crop-duster was clear of the departure track of the airstrip.
Mr Smith, this is the perfect example of a "measurable safety issue" that would "be addressed by ADS-B".
Do you deny this?
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Bing
It is great fun debating with you because I still miss Annette Funicello and the Mousketeers so enjoyable in my youth, and your Disneyland scenarios tug at my heart strings for those halcyon days before terrorism.
I have contacted the insurers re your whizz bomb scenario, hereafter known as "Bing's Whizzy", and they tell me their greater concern is all the motorists driving off the end of freeways and the fishermen vanishing slowly into the sunset from the Barrier Reef as they drift without navigation into the Sargasso Sea, when the GPS is turned off by the USA.
I was going to BBQ tonight but refused to go out there in case one of our Bin Liners had donned a towel and booby trapped the BBQ. I got over that, but then my beloved May suggested that a passing meteorite shower could imbed rocks in my scone to my detriment and probable passing, so I am now euchred trying to work out what's safe to eat with pesticide levels.
The Maginot line was an inadequate defence. Fortunately ADS-B is an adequate defence, although it can be easily penetrated by anecdotal dickmites using hyperbole (not hyperbola) trajectories.
If you think this is a leg pull - you opened the bidding. Goodnight mate
It is great fun debating with you because I still miss Annette Funicello and the Mousketeers so enjoyable in my youth, and your Disneyland scenarios tug at my heart strings for those halcyon days before terrorism.
I have contacted the insurers re your whizz bomb scenario, hereafter known as "Bing's Whizzy", and they tell me their greater concern is all the motorists driving off the end of freeways and the fishermen vanishing slowly into the sunset from the Barrier Reef as they drift without navigation into the Sargasso Sea, when the GPS is turned off by the USA.
I was going to BBQ tonight but refused to go out there in case one of our Bin Liners had donned a towel and booby trapped the BBQ. I got over that, but then my beloved May suggested that a passing meteorite shower could imbed rocks in my scone to my detriment and probable passing, so I am now euchred trying to work out what's safe to eat with pesticide levels.
The Maginot line was an inadequate defence. Fortunately ADS-B is an adequate defence, although it can be easily penetrated by anecdotal dickmites using hyperbole (not hyperbola) trajectories.
If you think this is a leg pull - you opened the bidding. Goodnight mate
The pilot of the RFDS aircraft stated that the crop-duster did not appear on his TCAS and asked me if I could see the aircraft on RADAR... I could not.
Q:
What if the crop-duster's 1090ES ADS-B Transponder had been unserviceable at start up?
What if the near miss had been with an ultralight?
Is every aircraft that could operate at any 'country strip' going to be paid to fit a 1090ES ADS-B transponder?
What if the crop-duster's 1090ES ADS-B Transponder had been unserviceable at start up?
What if the near miss had been with an ultralight?
Is every aircraft that could operate at any 'country strip' going to be paid to fit a 1090ES ADS-B transponder?
Bing
It is great fun debating with you because I still miss Annette Funicello and the Mousketeers so enjoyable in my youth, and your Disneyland scenarios tug at my heart strings for those halcyon days before terrorism.
I have contacted the insurers re your whizz bomb scenario, hereafter known as "Bing's Whizzy", and they tell me their greater concern is all the motorists driving off the end of freeways and the fishermen vanishing slowly into the sunset from the Barrier Reef as they drift without navigation into the Sargasso Sea, when the GPS is turned off by the USA.
I was going to BBQ tonight but refused to go out there in case one of our Bin Liners had donned a towel and booby trapped the BBQ. I got over that, but then my beloved May suggested that a passing meteorite shower could imbed rocks in my scone to my detriment and probable passing, so I am now euchred trying to work out what's safe to eat with pesticide levels.
The Maginot line was an inadequate defence. Fortunately ADS-B is an adequate defence, although it can be easily penetrated by anecdotal dickmites using hyperbole (not hyperbola) trajectories.
If you think this is a leg pull - you opened the bidding. Goodnight mate
It is great fun debating with you because I still miss Annette Funicello and the Mousketeers so enjoyable in my youth, and your Disneyland scenarios tug at my heart strings for those halcyon days before terrorism.
I have contacted the insurers re your whizz bomb scenario, hereafter known as "Bing's Whizzy", and they tell me their greater concern is all the motorists driving off the end of freeways and the fishermen vanishing slowly into the sunset from the Barrier Reef as they drift without navigation into the Sargasso Sea, when the GPS is turned off by the USA.
I was going to BBQ tonight but refused to go out there in case one of our Bin Liners had donned a towel and booby trapped the BBQ. I got over that, but then my beloved May suggested that a passing meteorite shower could imbed rocks in my scone to my detriment and probable passing, so I am now euchred trying to work out what's safe to eat with pesticide levels.
The Maginot line was an inadequate defence. Fortunately ADS-B is an adequate defence, although it can be easily penetrated by anecdotal dickmites using hyperbole (not hyperbola) trajectories.
If you think this is a leg pull - you opened the bidding. Goodnight mate