Common sense security for pilots?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Papua New Guinea
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Common sense security for pilots?
By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The nation's 75,000 airline pilots could avoid being screened for weapons before they board airplanes if a test starting shortly succeeds.
But critics including flight attendants fear that an armed terrorist posing as a pilot could get on an airplane if pilots don't have to walk through metal detectors and have their bags scanned by X-ray machines.
At three test airports, pilots will skip passenger screening and go through separate checkpoints where a screener will check only their airline ID. The test, run by the Transportation Security Administration, will begin in early summer and could be copied around the country at a later date, TSA assistant administrator John Sammon said.
Pilots' unions have been lobbying to skip airport screening, which they call unnecessary and "demoralizing." The Air Line Pilots Association notes that pilots face extensive background tests, and that pilots wanting to do harm with an airplane would hardly need a weapon because they control airplanes.
Airport screening "has just worn on them," said Pete Janhunen, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, the largest pilots' union. "You trust them to fly a multimillion dollar airplane, and yet a TSA inspector with little training, little experience has the ability to strip-search them for gels."
WASHINGTON — The nation's 75,000 airline pilots could avoid being screened for weapons before they board airplanes if a test starting shortly succeeds.
But critics including flight attendants fear that an armed terrorist posing as a pilot could get on an airplane if pilots don't have to walk through metal detectors and have their bags scanned by X-ray machines.
At three test airports, pilots will skip passenger screening and go through separate checkpoints where a screener will check only their airline ID. The test, run by the Transportation Security Administration, will begin in early summer and could be copied around the country at a later date, TSA assistant administrator John Sammon said.
Pilots' unions have been lobbying to skip airport screening, which they call unnecessary and "demoralizing." The Air Line Pilots Association notes that pilots face extensive background tests, and that pilots wanting to do harm with an airplane would hardly need a weapon because they control airplanes.
Airport screening "has just worn on them," said Pete Janhunen, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, the largest pilots' union. "You trust them to fly a multimillion dollar airplane, and yet a TSA inspector with little training, little experience has the ability to strip-search them for gels."
The lunatics have really taken over the asylum on this one.
One of our crew in Sydney was recently abused by the public for moving to the front of the line. It was a busy day at screening and there were frustrations everywhere. The clowns that require professional aircrew to endue this insult would have you believe that it is designed to keep up appearances. If it's good enough for pilots, then it's good enough for everyone. The fact is, it's not good enough for everyone. Catering staff, Refuellers, Engineering staff, and an assortment of other personel all have the opportunity to bypass security sceening in one form or another. and many of them have acess to both the terminal and aircraft!
The reason for this apparent double standard is that the logistics of enforcing this rule for everyone would simply be too difficult and expensive! Can't have Maquarie's profits affected can we. Pilots and flight attendants are a visible and therefore prime example to the general public that the system works. The system is nothing short of hipocracy!
The abused flight crew member also highlights a wider problem. The substandard conditions that have now become the norm for pilots (see the VOZ insult as just one example) has translated to a complete lack of respect by the regulators and now the travelling public alike.
Is it any wonder young people have stopped learning to fly.
One of our crew in Sydney was recently abused by the public for moving to the front of the line. It was a busy day at screening and there were frustrations everywhere. The clowns that require professional aircrew to endue this insult would have you believe that it is designed to keep up appearances. If it's good enough for pilots, then it's good enough for everyone. The fact is, it's not good enough for everyone. Catering staff, Refuellers, Engineering staff, and an assortment of other personel all have the opportunity to bypass security sceening in one form or another. and many of them have acess to both the terminal and aircraft!
The reason for this apparent double standard is that the logistics of enforcing this rule for everyone would simply be too difficult and expensive! Can't have Maquarie's profits affected can we. Pilots and flight attendants are a visible and therefore prime example to the general public that the system works. The system is nothing short of hipocracy!
The abused flight crew member also highlights a wider problem. The substandard conditions that have now become the norm for pilots (see the VOZ insult as just one example) has translated to a complete lack of respect by the regulators and now the travelling public alike.
Is it any wonder young people have stopped learning to fly.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've always argued for a bit of common-bloody-sense to apply to screening, but commonsense and DOTARS live on different planets.
You can strip the 2 pilots going through security down to their undies if it takes your fancy, but I'm sure they could still manage to fly into a building in only their underpants.
In fact, if even one of the pilots is a terrorist, there are many aircraft types in which it would be a very, very simple matter to take complete control without the use of any weapon whatsoever - even without those readily available in the cockpit itself.
If they even devoted half the time and effort to properly checking pilot identification as they do to confiscating pilot deodorant bottles we'd be a lot safer.
BTW, I've been fortunate not to have been abused by any passenger yet (can't say the same for some of my airline colleagues though), but my tolerance for such things is zero. They certainly wouldn't want to do it if I'm operating their flight. It'll be a long wait for the next one while they have an in-depth chat with APS or the Feds.
You can strip the 2 pilots going through security down to their undies if it takes your fancy, but I'm sure they could still manage to fly into a building in only their underpants.
In fact, if even one of the pilots is a terrorist, there are many aircraft types in which it would be a very, very simple matter to take complete control without the use of any weapon whatsoever - even without those readily available in the cockpit itself.
If they even devoted half the time and effort to properly checking pilot identification as they do to confiscating pilot deodorant bottles we'd be a lot safer.
BTW, I've been fortunate not to have been abused by any passenger yet (can't say the same for some of my airline colleagues though), but my tolerance for such things is zero. They certainly wouldn't want to do it if I'm operating their flight. It'll be a long wait for the next one while they have an in-depth chat with APS or the Feds.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: beautiful one day...............
Posts: 54
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brisbane Airport Corporation Madness
Here is the ultimate in stupidity.
Pilots on duty who go through security screening at the common user terminal checkpoint at BNE domestic, are forced to remove all their Jepp binders from their nav bags to have them X rayed separately. This can take an additional 5 minutes just to get through security.
If we go through the Qantas or Virgin checkpoints this requirement does not exist. The same security company is used for all three checks!
Pilots on duty who go through security screening at the common user terminal checkpoint at BNE domestic, are forced to remove all their Jepp binders from their nav bags to have them X rayed separately. This can take an additional 5 minutes just to get through security.
If we go through the Qantas or Virgin checkpoints this requirement does not exist. The same security company is used for all three checks!
It's not just Jepps, anything with a metal snap open binder (like my scuba diving logbook), gets a special going over, seems someone somewhere once found something in one.
I have given up. I give the company exactly what they want.
I turn up right on time and I que up like every one else.
If the simpletons at security insist on waisting time I smile and do as they ask.
I arrive at the aircraft and I don't rush, I complete my checks as is required.
If I depart late I use security a the delay code and let some one else worry about why.
If more people did it the airlines would soon get jack of it and apply the appropraie amount of pressue to change the system.
In the mean time Pilots going out of their way to make things work delays any cjange as management DO NOT have to explain why the system doesn't work.
I turn up right on time and I que up like every one else.
If the simpletons at security insist on waisting time I smile and do as they ask.
I arrive at the aircraft and I don't rush, I complete my checks as is required.
If I depart late I use security a the delay code and let some one else worry about why.
If more people did it the airlines would soon get jack of it and apply the appropraie amount of pressue to change the system.
In the mean time Pilots going out of their way to make things work delays any cjange as management DO NOT have to explain why the system doesn't work.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Krusty & renurpp good posts.
I had the displeasure of passing thru AD last year dressed in the full monkey suit (God I hate our uniforms)paxing back to ML after committing aviation from AD to DN then back to AD with my flight bag containing a lap top & other items of offence. I was asked by the very understanding smiling staff .......NOT to remove my laptop from my flight bag for an individual inspection. They passed my now closed laptopless flight bag thru the xray machine 3 times & finally said lets have a look inside it in detail. The most dangerous object found that would have no doubt been an international threat to the world was a broken arm off a pair of spare sunnies I kept in the bottom of my flight bag. This was removed & no doubt discarded. I was then allowed to repack my flight bag after having it's entire contents out for all to see (you know all those nasty things we pilots keep inside
) along with my shoes that they asked to be removed....phewwww
The day before travelling from ML to AD the security staff at ML all but waved me thru!!
Gotta love the SOPS applied
CW
I had the displeasure of passing thru AD last year dressed in the full monkey suit (God I hate our uniforms)paxing back to ML after committing aviation from AD to DN then back to AD with my flight bag containing a lap top & other items of offence. I was asked by the very understanding smiling staff .......NOT to remove my laptop from my flight bag for an individual inspection. They passed my now closed laptopless flight bag thru the xray machine 3 times & finally said lets have a look inside it in detail. The most dangerous object found that would have no doubt been an international threat to the world was a broken arm off a pair of spare sunnies I kept in the bottom of my flight bag. This was removed & no doubt discarded. I was then allowed to repack my flight bag after having it's entire contents out for all to see (you know all those nasty things we pilots keep inside
) along with my shoes that they asked to be removed....phewwwwThe day before travelling from ML to AD the security staff at ML all but waved me thru!!
Gotta love the SOPS applied
CW
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went thru sydney airport last week on an international flight bound for Zurich via Singapore, was in full civies, no signs of being a pilot apart from my ASIC in my carry on bag. My liquid goodies were all packed in the resealable bag as they require, (this included a deodorant stick, and a half full 120ml bottle of contact lense solution). Old mate looks at my resealable bag for about a minute reading what everything is, looks at me, then says have a nice flight.
I get to Singapore, where we have to go thru screening again,even though we are only in transit stop-over. Go thru screening with exactly the same contents as sydney (minus about another 20 ml of contact solution from when i removed my contacts in flight) and the lady says no go for the contact solution. So have to surrender it.
I guess i must have been going to drown the flight crew with my 40ml of saline solution. Common sense aint so common anymore. 
I get to Singapore, where we have to go thru screening again,even though we are only in transit stop-over. Go thru screening with exactly the same contents as sydney (minus about another 20 ml of contact solution from when i removed my contacts in flight) and the lady says no go for the contact solution. So have to surrender it.
I guess i must have been going to drown the flight crew with my 40ml of saline solution.
Common sense aint so common anymore.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Back again.
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And you should be thankful for the lady's diligence and consideration. If that had have been a bottle of triacetone triperoxide inadvertently labeled as contact lens solution, you could have ruined your eyes.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I bet she was overweight........ they seem to be cranky and rude more than usual when they are overweight........... Just an observation I have made.
could be overcompensating I reckon.
could be overcompensating I reckon.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: FNQ
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Airport screening "has just worn on them," said Pete Janhunen, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, the largest pilots' union. "You trust them to fly a multimillion dollar airplane, and yet a TSA inspector with little training, little experience has the ability to strip-search them for gels."
Good to see the unions over there are still fighting for the cause!! If the unions in Oz are onto it they are being pretty quiet about it!!
Good to see the unions over there are still fighting for the cause!! If the unions in Oz are onto it they are being pretty quiet about it!!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: On a date with destiny.
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahhh, the fun of it all... I had a good one recently in Mel where I had to walk through a second time because I had one hand in my pocket the first time! I might have been hiding something... Didn't want to scare them!
"Is that a WMD in your pocket... or you just happy to see me?"
"Is that a WMD in your pocket... or you just happy to see me?"
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went through Bn transit screening on thursday, there is only one metal detector to walk through, one xray machine......ten security folk standing around, TEN! My lord, who is paying for that! Imagine the service we could provide on board our aircraft if the pax were paying for ten crew instead of ten people who are desperate to display their almighty power.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Here and there
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's one that I wasn't fully aware of until recently:
Police are taken to be cleared when passing through a screening point if they produce police identification.
Reg 4.10
This applies over and above their right to go to a secure area to deal with an emergency. So the ariline pilot is is subject to any and/or all provisions of screening yet the police can walk through as required (even to go to a police aircraft) by showing ID.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that it should be any other way for police but then this should also be extended to pilots displaying ASICs.
Off the record you can easily get agreement from staff within the Office of Transport Security that they have made something of a botch of the legislation in certain areas. However they are not going to instigagate any changes from their own volition. That has to come from industry with well reasoned justification for change. The acid test to any change will be - "is there any reduction in the level of security accorded to the travelling public"? Unfortunately common sense and practicality are not terms that the Dept deals in.
Police are taken to be cleared when passing through a screening point if they produce police identification.
Reg 4.10
This applies over and above their right to go to a secure area to deal with an emergency. So the ariline pilot is is subject to any and/or all provisions of screening yet the police can walk through as required (even to go to a police aircraft) by showing ID.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that it should be any other way for police but then this should also be extended to pilots displaying ASICs.
Off the record you can easily get agreement from staff within the Office of Transport Security that they have made something of a botch of the legislation in certain areas. However they are not going to instigagate any changes from their own volition. That has to come from industry with well reasoned justification for change. The acid test to any change will be - "is there any reduction in the level of security accorded to the travelling public"? Unfortunately common sense and practicality are not terms that the Dept deals in.
Last edited by Islander Jock; 23rd May 2008 at 03:31.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would say 99.9% of aircrew, like 99.9% of passengers, are trustworthy.
But there's always an oddball... which, unfortunately, is why we have security measures.
One example that springs to mind...
Auburn Calloway Fedex Flight 705, 1994
The CVR transcript is here: http://www.tailstrike.com/070494.htm
Of course if someone is really determined, then they might figure out a way around it. However requiring only an ASIC as a "free ticket" through security screening could create several loopholes.
Aren't aircrew generally screened in a separate express channel (at major airports...)?
But there's always an oddball... which, unfortunately, is why we have security measures.
One example that springs to mind...
Auburn Calloway Fedex Flight 705, 1994
The CVR transcript is here: http://www.tailstrike.com/070494.htm
Of course if someone is really determined, then they might figure out a way around it. However requiring only an ASIC as a "free ticket" through security screening could create several loopholes.
Aren't aircrew generally screened in a separate express channel (at major airports...)?
Grandpa Aerotart
And how exactly has modern airport security made it more difficult for the Auburn Calloways of this world?
I have a new game.
It worked a treat at BN recently. I pitched up at the xray machine...the pax were all cheerfully understanding of the reasons requiring me to push in front and go first. Laptop out + sundry items, watch/mobile ph etc, in hat in separate tray.
"Sir, do you have any metal ringbinders in your bag?"
"Yes of course" (I smiled...trap baited)
"I'll need you to remove them for separate checking"
"Why?" (all innocent like)
"Because a knife could be hidden in the ringbinder and escape detection"
"Really...what would I do with a knife?" (again all innocent and willing to help this...idiot...and remember there are at least 10 pax within earshot all keenly interested because I have engaged them in apologetic banter while pushing in front)
"You might try and take control of the aircraft"
I swear to god I couldn't have asked for more.
"But I already have control of the aircraft" (more sweet, open faced innocence)
The women looked a bit stunned...then to her eternal credit she leaned forward and said "I think I work for morons"
"I think you're right".
I am an army of 1
PS...I think there is a hidden microphone at Xray...I walked away and was pinged for explosive residue check..."Sir can you come this way for a random explosive residue check"
"It isn't random when I get pinged in uniform 6 times in the last 8 mth."
"Oh I assure you it's random sir"
"Hurry up, I have a bullet proof door to lock myself in front of"
I have a new game.
It worked a treat at BN recently. I pitched up at the xray machine...the pax were all cheerfully understanding of the reasons requiring me to push in front and go first. Laptop out + sundry items, watch/mobile ph etc, in hat in separate tray.
"Sir, do you have any metal ringbinders in your bag?"
"Yes of course" (I smiled...trap baited)
"I'll need you to remove them for separate checking"
"Why?" (all innocent like)
"Because a knife could be hidden in the ringbinder and escape detection"
"Really...what would I do with a knife?" (again all innocent and willing to help this...idiot...and remember there are at least 10 pax within earshot all keenly interested because I have engaged them in apologetic banter while pushing in front)
"You might try and take control of the aircraft"
I swear to god I couldn't have asked for more.
"But I already have control of the aircraft" (more sweet, open faced innocence)
The women looked a bit stunned...then to her eternal credit she leaned forward and said "I think I work for morons"
"I think you're right".
I am an army of 1
PS...I think there is a hidden microphone at Xray...I walked away and was pinged for explosive residue check..."Sir can you come this way for a random explosive residue check"
"It isn't random when I get pinged in uniform 6 times in the last 8 mth."
"Oh I assure you it's random sir"
"Hurry up, I have a bullet proof door to lock myself in front of"