Merged: 457 Visa
Mate i was just trying to show you that there is more than one school of economic thought in this world. They all have something to offer if you really want greater understanding. 
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Aaaahh... how exactly do 457 visa entrants "increase the skill of all pilots"?
I was warned that PAF was a troll, and after this last piece of obsfucation, I have to agree. I thought I'd gently shown you that an economic purist would abhor the concept of 457 visas, as all they do is delay the inevitable workings of the market (as evidenced by the quoted studies showing immigration has no effect on what would've happened anyway). The REAL WORLD impinges on reading theories, studies and data analysis etc ....and I'll be very clear about this, because this is the bit that you learn in the "big school", not the lecture hall.........because studies such as those quoted are only meaningful when looking at large samples over long periods.
THAT MEANS you are not thinking about the young people in the next year or so, who may only number 50, who will miss out on a career as a pilot because some overpaid airline executive arsehole decided that 457 visas might earn him his bonus this year.
But those 50 young people will remember. It's not communism, smart alec, it's humanism. Maybe only on a small scale, but clearly some people are passionate enough to still care about the bigger implications.
Here endith the lecture.
I was warned that PAF was a troll, and after this last piece of obsfucation, I have to agree. I thought I'd gently shown you that an economic purist would abhor the concept of 457 visas, as all they do is delay the inevitable workings of the market (as evidenced by the quoted studies showing immigration has no effect on what would've happened anyway). The REAL WORLD impinges on reading theories, studies and data analysis etc ....and I'll be very clear about this, because this is the bit that you learn in the "big school", not the lecture hall.........because studies such as those quoted are only meaningful when looking at large samples over long periods.
THAT MEANS you are not thinking about the young people in the next year or so, who may only number 50, who will miss out on a career as a pilot because some overpaid airline executive arsehole decided that 457 visas might earn him his bonus this year.
But those 50 young people will remember. It's not communism, smart alec, it's humanism. Maybe only on a small scale, but clearly some people are passionate enough to still care about the bigger implications.
Here endith the lecture.
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QF using 457 VISA's to attract candidates.
QF advert on an emplyment website for SIM instructors. Interesting note contained within ad.
Extract:
'We will assist to sponsor you on a 457 Visa'
look up the job ID number 12530386 on seek.com.au.......Globalisation works both ways!!!
Extract:
'We will assist to sponsor you on a 457 Visa'
look up the job ID number 12530386 on seek.com.au.......Globalisation works both ways!!!
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Question for the moderator: what defining line enabled you to assess ACMS as a threat to this thread, while maintaining PAF's privileges?
I think you're playing favorites, and you don't like hearing that.
You just don't get it!
ACMS was not sanctioned for the opinions he holds, but for his abusive, childish posts. He has since acknowledged he could have stated his case in a more acceptable manner and is free to post in all threads.
PAF has an opinion and stated his case in a non abusive manner. He has not "crossed the line" but if he does, will receive the same sanctions as ACMS, without fear or favour.
Perhaps you need to understand that each of our quarter million PPRuNe users hold varying views and some of those views may be vastly different than your own. It is for this very reason PPRuNe is the success it is.
Whilst PPRuNe is not a democratic free-for-all, I have no problem with your claim of Moderator bias. I trust you have no problem with me simply ignoring your claim?
Tail Wheel
I think you're playing favorites, and you don't like hearing that.
------------------------------------
You just don't get it!
ACMS was not sanctioned for the opinions he holds, but for his abusive, childish posts. He has since acknowledged he could have stated his case in a more acceptable manner and is free to post in all threads.
PAF has an opinion and stated his case in a non abusive manner. He has not "crossed the line" but if he does, will receive the same sanctions as ACMS, without fear or favour.
Perhaps you need to understand that each of our quarter million PPRuNe users hold varying views and some of those views may be vastly different than your own. It is for this very reason PPRuNe is the success it is.
Whilst PPRuNe is not a democratic free-for-all, I have no problem with your claim of Moderator bias. I trust you have no problem with me simply ignoring your claim?
Tail Wheel
A recruitment survey has found a critical shortage in professional occupations could lead to wages growth of 5 to 7 per cent in Australia in the next year.
The survey by the global recruitment firm Michael Page International has found there are not enough professional workers to satisfy demand, despite the lowest unemployment rate in more than 30 years.
The firm's managing director, Phillip Guest, says the tight labour market is part of a global trend.
Mr Guest says employers are losing valuable professional staff to lucrative overseas markets.
"Ninety-one per cent of them are saying their staff numbers will remain constant or will increase in the coming year, so essentially what's happening is that competition for skilled workers is intensifying," he said.
"As a result of that added competition, employers are having to address salaries as a way of retaining employees."
Mr Guest says government and business need to offer better incentives for staff to stay in Australia and avoid a further tightening of the labour market.
"We're seeing a particularly high pressure in the professional occupation groups and they can range from a variety of different sectors or occupation groups," he said.
"The key ones are obviously accounting, finance and management, IT and sales and marketing."
............ and many pilots are still getting paid a pittance.
Dark Side Of Guest Labour - 457 Visas Are Loose And Open To Abuse
Type: Union News Subject: Nursing Issues
4 October 2006
Labor's immigration spokesperson Tony Burke The use of temporary skilled migration, especially the use of the so-called 457 Visa, has become a hot public issue, with frequent media expos`s of workplace exploitation. This darker side is also found in nursing but with a chronic labour shortage these visas also fill a need.
Unions have voiced concerns that the federal government's handling of its temporary worker visa program is creating a tier of second-class workers in Australia who have no rights and are vulnerable to being underpaid, mistreated and abused.
In one case, unions exposed unsafe and exploitative working conditions for around 50 Chinese workers at Wetherill Park in western Sydney. The workers were building a $60 million tissue-paper mill.
They used equipment that did not meet safety specifications, they did not have the appropriate licences to operate vehicles and were allowed to carry out dangerous tasks. One man was seen welding a pipe he was tied to while swaying high in the air dangling from a crane.
Union concerns are backed by researchers at the University of Western Sydney's Centre for Innovation and Industry Studies, who have published a highly critical report of the temporary skilled migration system. Among its concerns are:
the government is using the scheme to push down local wages
the principle of equal work for equal pay will be undermined
overseas temporary workers are in a difficult position in the event of industrial conflict between employers on whom they are completely dependent
restrictions on the movement of 457 Visa holders is dangerously close to 'bonded labour'.
The report details the dramatic rise in the use of the visas.
40,000 people are expected to be granted 457 Visas this year, up 43% on 28,000 visas last year and a 66% increase on 2003-04. There are now 75,000 people in Australia working on these visas.
Although employers must pay award rates or set minimum wages of between $41,000 and $51,000 per year, depending on location and skill level, they are not obliged to pay Australian market rates and they no longer have to advertise locally before they recruit overseas.
'The program should be overhauled to force employers to seek Australian labour before looking offshore, and to pay market rates,' said Labor's immigration spokesperson Tony Burke.
Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone has admitted that importing foreign workers helps keep wages down. She has publicly defended the foreign guest worker scheme saying it stopped unions from pushing excessive wage demands.
Type: Union News Subject: Nursing Issues
4 October 2006
Labor's immigration spokesperson Tony Burke The use of temporary skilled migration, especially the use of the so-called 457 Visa, has become a hot public issue, with frequent media expos`s of workplace exploitation. This darker side is also found in nursing but with a chronic labour shortage these visas also fill a need.
Unions have voiced concerns that the federal government's handling of its temporary worker visa program is creating a tier of second-class workers in Australia who have no rights and are vulnerable to being underpaid, mistreated and abused.
In one case, unions exposed unsafe and exploitative working conditions for around 50 Chinese workers at Wetherill Park in western Sydney. The workers were building a $60 million tissue-paper mill.
They used equipment that did not meet safety specifications, they did not have the appropriate licences to operate vehicles and were allowed to carry out dangerous tasks. One man was seen welding a pipe he was tied to while swaying high in the air dangling from a crane.
Union concerns are backed by researchers at the University of Western Sydney's Centre for Innovation and Industry Studies, who have published a highly critical report of the temporary skilled migration system. Among its concerns are:
the government is using the scheme to push down local wages
the principle of equal work for equal pay will be undermined
overseas temporary workers are in a difficult position in the event of industrial conflict between employers on whom they are completely dependent
restrictions on the movement of 457 Visa holders is dangerously close to 'bonded labour'.
The report details the dramatic rise in the use of the visas.
40,000 people are expected to be granted 457 Visas this year, up 43% on 28,000 visas last year and a 66% increase on 2003-04. There are now 75,000 people in Australia working on these visas.
Although employers must pay award rates or set minimum wages of between $41,000 and $51,000 per year, depending on location and skill level, they are not obliged to pay Australian market rates and they no longer have to advertise locally before they recruit overseas.
'The program should be overhauled to force employers to seek Australian labour before looking offshore, and to pay market rates,' said Labor's immigration spokesperson Tony Burke.
Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone has admitted that importing foreign workers helps keep wages down. She has publicly defended the foreign guest worker scheme saying it stopped unions from pushing excessive wage demands.
Last edited by desmotronic; 29th Apr 2008 at 03:34.
Fixing the 457 visa for temporary foreign workers
Published Friday, 8th September, 2006
by Bob Kinnaird
The subclass 457 visa is Australia's main temporary work visa for so-called skilled workers. The visa has become a highly contentious political issue. The Federal Labor Opposition and the ACTU vehemently oppose this visa in its current form, arguing that it threatens jobs and training opportunities for Australians, undermines wages and working conditions and exploits foreign (non-resident) workers. Both portray 457 visas as part of the government's broader industrial relations strategy.
Growth in 457 visas has been so rapid that in 2006-07, for the first time in Australia's history, there will probably be more temporary skilled 457 visas granted than skilled permanent residence visas. This is a deliberate Federal government strategy. It has frozen the permanent skilled migrant intake at 2004-05 levels, and opted to aggressively promote employer-sponsored temporary visas as the best way to meet Australia's skilled labour needs.
The projected number of 457 visas granted in 2005-06 is around 40,000 primary applicants and 71,000 including accompanying family members. This is a massive increase of 43 per cent over 2004-05, with even more likely in 2006-07.
457 visa impacts on jobs and training opportunities in ICT
The 457 visa program (along with other factors) has contributed to greatly reduced demand for IT graduates since 2001 and poor graduate job outcomes leading to plummeting enrolments by young Australians in IT courses.
Since 2001 the proportion of Australian computer science graduates unable to find full-time work has been at record or near-record levels (25-30 per cent) and enrolments by Australian students in university IT courses have fallen by probably 50 per cent, to less than 9,000. There are now fewer Australians commencing IT courses than in 1996 when the Howard government first came to office.
On June 30 2004, there were an estimated 5,000 foreign nationals on 457 visas working in ICT in Australia, including 2,200 people under age 30 working as computing professionals. At the same time, some 2,000 computer science graduates and postgraduates were unable to find full-time work. On the available evidence, some of these ICT workers on 457 visas have become substitutes for Australian IT graduates.
457 salaries and market rates
If 457 wages and salaries are undercutting market rates, these visas are not only putting downward pressure on Australian wages but are effectively a government subsidy to some employers, giving them an unfair competitive advantage.
It is not possible to determine if actual salaries paid to 457 visa-holders are undercutting market rates. This is because the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs (DIMA) does not even collect information on actual base salaries paid by employers to 457 visa-holders through its compliance monitoring system or any other regular means.
The DIMA 457 compliance monitoring system only asks employers whether 457 visa-holders are being paid the original base salary determined when visa nominations were first approved.
Published Friday, 8th September, 2006
by Bob Kinnaird
The subclass 457 visa is Australia's main temporary work visa for so-called skilled workers. The visa has become a highly contentious political issue. The Federal Labor Opposition and the ACTU vehemently oppose this visa in its current form, arguing that it threatens jobs and training opportunities for Australians, undermines wages and working conditions and exploits foreign (non-resident) workers. Both portray 457 visas as part of the government's broader industrial relations strategy.
Growth in 457 visas has been so rapid that in 2006-07, for the first time in Australia's history, there will probably be more temporary skilled 457 visas granted than skilled permanent residence visas. This is a deliberate Federal government strategy. It has frozen the permanent skilled migrant intake at 2004-05 levels, and opted to aggressively promote employer-sponsored temporary visas as the best way to meet Australia's skilled labour needs.
The projected number of 457 visas granted in 2005-06 is around 40,000 primary applicants and 71,000 including accompanying family members. This is a massive increase of 43 per cent over 2004-05, with even more likely in 2006-07.
457 visa impacts on jobs and training opportunities in ICT
The 457 visa program (along with other factors) has contributed to greatly reduced demand for IT graduates since 2001 and poor graduate job outcomes leading to plummeting enrolments by young Australians in IT courses.
Since 2001 the proportion of Australian computer science graduates unable to find full-time work has been at record or near-record levels (25-30 per cent) and enrolments by Australian students in university IT courses have fallen by probably 50 per cent, to less than 9,000. There are now fewer Australians commencing IT courses than in 1996 when the Howard government first came to office.
On June 30 2004, there were an estimated 5,000 foreign nationals on 457 visas working in ICT in Australia, including 2,200 people under age 30 working as computing professionals. At the same time, some 2,000 computer science graduates and postgraduates were unable to find full-time work. On the available evidence, some of these ICT workers on 457 visas have become substitutes for Australian IT graduates.
457 salaries and market rates
If 457 wages and salaries are undercutting market rates, these visas are not only putting downward pressure on Australian wages but are effectively a government subsidy to some employers, giving them an unfair competitive advantage.
It is not possible to determine if actual salaries paid to 457 visa-holders are undercutting market rates. This is because the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs (DIMA) does not even collect information on actual base salaries paid by employers to 457 visa-holders through its compliance monitoring system or any other regular means.
The DIMA 457 compliance monitoring system only asks employers whether 457 visa-holders are being paid the original base salary determined when visa nominations were first approved.
Last edited by desmotronic; 29th Apr 2008 at 03:42.
Transport Workers Union of Australia News and Updates
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commonwealth refuses to act on 457 visas
When presented with evidence of 457 visas being used to lower wages for Australians, the Commonwealth Minister for Workplace Relations today pledged only to ‘monitor’ the issue.
At a Workplace Relations Ministers’ Council in Melbourne, Kevin Andrews heard concerns expressed by NSW, Queensland and Western Australia, but refused to take effective action to stop the rorting.
NSW Minister for Industrial Relations, John Della Bosca, said the combination of 457 visas and Work Choices was being used to;
· lower wages,
· exploit overseas workers who were unaware of Australian wages and conditions, and
· allow employers and the Commonwealth to escape any responsibility to train our workforce.
“The number of temporary workers increased by 45 per cent in 2005/06,” Mr Della Bosca said.
“The Commonwealth Minister was clearly unaware of his own Government’s agreement to allow AMEX to import Japanese speaking personnel at nearly $6,000 below the Commonwealth’s gazetted minimum salary.
“Kevin Andrews’ claim that this is an immigration matter is buck-passing.
“These people are not immigrating, that’s the whole point. They are being brought in because they will work at rates below the Australian market for those skills.
“The reason AMEX can’t attract Australians is because they want skilled people to accept a salary $15,000 below the average – and the Howard/Debnam Work Choices system is helping them to rob Australians of these jobs.
“457 visas are being used here just to undercut the going rate.
“People working in Australia should get Australian rates of pay,” Mr Della Bosca said.
“Without this fundamental standard, overseas workers are exploited, we lose local jobs and there’s no incentive to train Australians,” Mr Della Bosca said.
“The combination of Work Choices and 457 visas is bad news for Australia and for the low-wage temporary staff brought here to do a job cheaply and then shipped home.
“Before Work Choices, there were decent minimum standards that could be enforced.
“Nurses on 457 visas employed by the NSW Government have pay and conditions supported by a state award, backed up by the powerful Industrial Relations Commission.
“In contrast, workers who fall under the Commonwealth’s defective Work Choices system have virtually no safety nets, no powerful independent umpire and no way of negotiating genuine Australian pay rates and conditions.
“We have local labour willing to work and willing to learn – they should not be undercut by a Commonwealth government allowing guest workers on low pay rates.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commonwealth refuses to act on 457 visas
When presented with evidence of 457 visas being used to lower wages for Australians, the Commonwealth Minister for Workplace Relations today pledged only to ‘monitor’ the issue.
At a Workplace Relations Ministers’ Council in Melbourne, Kevin Andrews heard concerns expressed by NSW, Queensland and Western Australia, but refused to take effective action to stop the rorting.
NSW Minister for Industrial Relations, John Della Bosca, said the combination of 457 visas and Work Choices was being used to;
· lower wages,
· exploit overseas workers who were unaware of Australian wages and conditions, and
· allow employers and the Commonwealth to escape any responsibility to train our workforce.
“The number of temporary workers increased by 45 per cent in 2005/06,” Mr Della Bosca said.
“The Commonwealth Minister was clearly unaware of his own Government’s agreement to allow AMEX to import Japanese speaking personnel at nearly $6,000 below the Commonwealth’s gazetted minimum salary.
“Kevin Andrews’ claim that this is an immigration matter is buck-passing.
“These people are not immigrating, that’s the whole point. They are being brought in because they will work at rates below the Australian market for those skills.
“The reason AMEX can’t attract Australians is because they want skilled people to accept a salary $15,000 below the average – and the Howard/Debnam Work Choices system is helping them to rob Australians of these jobs.
“457 visas are being used here just to undercut the going rate.
“People working in Australia should get Australian rates of pay,” Mr Della Bosca said.
“Without this fundamental standard, overseas workers are exploited, we lose local jobs and there’s no incentive to train Australians,” Mr Della Bosca said.
“The combination of Work Choices and 457 visas is bad news for Australia and for the low-wage temporary staff brought here to do a job cheaply and then shipped home.
“Before Work Choices, there were decent minimum standards that could be enforced.
“Nurses on 457 visas employed by the NSW Government have pay and conditions supported by a state award, backed up by the powerful Industrial Relations Commission.
“In contrast, workers who fall under the Commonwealth’s defective Work Choices system have virtually no safety nets, no powerful independent umpire and no way of negotiating genuine Australian pay rates and conditions.
“We have local labour willing to work and willing to learn – they should not be undercut by a Commonwealth government allowing guest workers on low pay rates.”
........................
[QUOTE][Government to 'speed up' 457 visa processing
Graham Matthews
29 March 2008
On March 20, the Sydney Morning Herald reported that federal immigration minister Chris Evans had agreed to “speed-up” the processing of 457 visas, which allow bosses to hire skilled workers from overseas to fill alleged skill shortages.
The government’s move comes against opposition from the union movement, which argues that the 457 visa scheme has led to massive abuse of overseas workers. Workers on the visas are paid less and enjoy far fewer conditions than Australian workers in the same industry.
Under the scheme, bosses may apply to employ skilled workers for up to four years, providing they are paid the statutory minimum ($41,850 for most trades). Employers are not required to provide workers with award rates of pay — let alone the same wages and conditions that unionised staff in the same industry may have negotiated.
Guest workers employed on 457 visas have few rights. When the boss decides that the worker is no longer required, the worker must find an alternative employer within 28 days or leave the country. In many cases, skilled workers employed under the 457 visa scheme are highly exploited — working longer hours for less money and in much safe conditions than workers with full citizenship rights.
Speaking to ABC Radio on March 25, Professor Phil Lewis, a “labour market expert” from the University of Canberra, argued that immigration department statistics showed that workers employed on 457 visas were not being paid less than workers with full citizenship rights — “in fact the averages show they’re getting paid more”, he argued. “So what it seems to indicate is that employers are actually doing the right thing and employing people for the wage commensurate for their skill and that wage is very similar to what they’d be paying Australian workers.”
However Andrew Ferguson, NSW state secretary of the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union, argues that the statistics were misleading. “It’s not the truth”, Ferguson told Green Left Weekly. “The methodology [of the immigration department study] is wrong in the calculation of average wage rates. The immigration department figures take an average across the industry, including trades people and apprentices. But these are skilled workers and should only be compared with other skilled workers.
“The study also doesn’t take account of wage variations across cities and regional areas. In many regional areas, rates of pay are lower than the cities, yet most of the [457] jobs are in the city. Workers employed on 457 visas must have higher minimum standards and rates of pay. Workers are entitled to market rates of pay rather than the statutory minimum.”
Ferguson said that “The market rate of pay that skilled workers can demand is substantially higher. Employment of workers on the lower rate undermines pay and conditions throughout the industry.” He argued that strict limitations should be applied to the 457 visa scheme, with employers obtaining the agreement of the relevant union in the industry that a bona fide skills shortage exists.
Ferguson also argued that the visa should only be available to bosses who have a history of training skilled workers in Australia. .”/QUOTE]
Graham Matthews
29 March 2008
On March 20, the Sydney Morning Herald reported that federal immigration minister Chris Evans had agreed to “speed-up” the processing of 457 visas, which allow bosses to hire skilled workers from overseas to fill alleged skill shortages.
The government’s move comes against opposition from the union movement, which argues that the 457 visa scheme has led to massive abuse of overseas workers. Workers on the visas are paid less and enjoy far fewer conditions than Australian workers in the same industry.
Under the scheme, bosses may apply to employ skilled workers for up to four years, providing they are paid the statutory minimum ($41,850 for most trades). Employers are not required to provide workers with award rates of pay — let alone the same wages and conditions that unionised staff in the same industry may have negotiated.
Guest workers employed on 457 visas have few rights. When the boss decides that the worker is no longer required, the worker must find an alternative employer within 28 days or leave the country. In many cases, skilled workers employed under the 457 visa scheme are highly exploited — working longer hours for less money and in much safe conditions than workers with full citizenship rights.
Speaking to ABC Radio on March 25, Professor Phil Lewis, a “labour market expert” from the University of Canberra, argued that immigration department statistics showed that workers employed on 457 visas were not being paid less than workers with full citizenship rights — “in fact the averages show they’re getting paid more”, he argued. “So what it seems to indicate is that employers are actually doing the right thing and employing people for the wage commensurate for their skill and that wage is very similar to what they’d be paying Australian workers.”
However Andrew Ferguson, NSW state secretary of the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union, argues that the statistics were misleading. “It’s not the truth”, Ferguson told Green Left Weekly. “The methodology [of the immigration department study] is wrong in the calculation of average wage rates. The immigration department figures take an average across the industry, including trades people and apprentices. But these are skilled workers and should only be compared with other skilled workers.
“The study also doesn’t take account of wage variations across cities and regional areas. In many regional areas, rates of pay are lower than the cities, yet most of the [457] jobs are in the city. Workers employed on 457 visas must have higher minimum standards and rates of pay. Workers are entitled to market rates of pay rather than the statutory minimum.”
Ferguson said that “The market rate of pay that skilled workers can demand is substantially higher. Employment of workers on the lower rate undermines pay and conditions throughout the industry.” He argued that strict limitations should be applied to the 457 visa scheme, with employers obtaining the agreement of the relevant union in the industry that a bona fide skills shortage exists.
Ferguson also argued that the visa should only be available to bosses who have a history of training skilled workers in Australia. .”/QUOTE]
Yes desmotronic, the facts are the Federal Labour Government are expanding the 457 Visa system and expediting the issue process, in direct contradiction to their endless and generally uninformed pre election rhetoric.
Perhaps they discovered the largest user of 457 Visas is the State Labour Governments and in particular the NSW, Western Australian and Queensland Health Departments?
And the reference to the $41,850 MSL is very missleading and mischievous by the journalist. There are certain mandatory costs to be added (including in most cases, Private medical insurance), such that at the lower levels, a 457 Visa holder will earn almost 150% of the applicable Award rate of pay.
However, a 457 Visa holder may not earn less than the applicable Award, EBA or AWA which exists in a work place, therefore if overseas pilots are employed on 457 Visa, they must not be paid less than their Australian counterparts.
And on the subject of endless political pre-election rhetoric we all know the Australian Worker Agreement (AWA) legislation, Work Choices, was immediately abolished by the incoming Labour Government!
Or was it? I now have an Individual Transitional Employment Agreement (ITEA) which is compliant with the new legislation - and is simply my old AWA with a new cover sheet!!
What politicians say in Opposition is not necessarily what they will do in Government!
Perhaps they discovered the largest user of 457 Visas is the State Labour Governments and in particular the NSW, Western Australian and Queensland Health Departments?
And the reference to the $41,850 MSL is very missleading and mischievous by the journalist. There are certain mandatory costs to be added (including in most cases, Private medical insurance), such that at the lower levels, a 457 Visa holder will earn almost 150% of the applicable Award rate of pay.
However, a 457 Visa holder may not earn less than the applicable Award, EBA or AWA which exists in a work place, therefore if overseas pilots are employed on 457 Visa, they must not be paid less than their Australian counterparts.
And on the subject of endless political pre-election rhetoric we all know the Australian Worker Agreement (AWA) legislation, Work Choices, was immediately abolished by the incoming Labour Government!
Or was it? I now have an Individual Transitional Employment Agreement (ITEA) which is compliant with the new legislation - and is simply my old AWA with a new cover sheet!!
What politicians say in Opposition is not necessarily what they will do in Government!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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What the unions don't seem to be taking on board is that skilled labour coming to Australia from South Africa is coming for the long haul and not just four years. I know and have worked with dozens of them, they want to come to Australia to start again, SA has gone down the tubes, especially for young families.
The fact is most 457 Visa workers are economic and/or political immigrants with a long term objective of starting a new life in Australia.
And if they embrace our Australian life style and values, obey our laws and ultimately seek and are granted Australian Citizenship, welcome to Australia and good luck in your future life in my country!
And if they embrace our Australian life style and values, obey our laws and ultimately seek and are granted Australian Citizenship, welcome to Australia and good luck in your future life in my country!
So, Marxist theory aside, and after much peripheral discussion about everything else, can we take it as accepted that the average 737 Capt in Australia will continue to earn as much as a bloke who runs a painting business and employs a couple of painters ?
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Not really!
I know a painter who employs a couple of blokes.
He earns nothing like a Virgin or Qantas 737 driver or a Jetstar 320 driver!!
You need to do some more homework!
I know a painter who employs a couple of blokes.
He earns nothing like a Virgin or Qantas 737 driver or a Jetstar 320 driver!!
You need to do some more homework!
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And taken as such.
Nothing "sinister" in the question, just that I used to be a hard-line economic rationalist and hater of unions who from the age of 18 voted for every conservative government that I had the opportunity to vote for. However my views have "softened" substantially since becoming a father. I would hate to see my children growing into a workforce that exploits them as I believe employers have been able to do since the introduction of "work-choices".
So the question is one borne of curiosity rather than malice.
Nothing "sinister" in the question, just that I used to be a hard-line economic rationalist and hater of unions who from the age of 18 voted for every conservative government that I had the opportunity to vote for. However my views have "softened" substantially since becoming a father. I would hate to see my children growing into a workforce that exploits them as I believe employers have been able to do since the introduction of "work-choices".
So the question is one borne of curiosity rather than malice.