Say NO to 457 visas.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two questions -
1 -When did I mention mining?
2 - Why should aviation be different?
Seriously, tell me why there should be one law for aviation and one for every other
Yeah, I read the 3 posts you mentioned, what about the other two and a half pages worth that are written in bold, seventy five point text that scream stuff like "aussie jobs, aussie pilots"
1 -When did I mention mining?
2 - Why should aviation be different?
Seriously, tell me why there should be one law for aviation and one for every other
Yeah, I read the 3 posts you mentioned, what about the other two and a half pages worth that are written in bold, seventy five point text that scream stuff like "aussie jobs, aussie pilots"
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australasia
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A thought...
As someone gladly flying back in OZ after many years overseas (post 2001) I have to admit I have met plenty of Ozzies living and flying permanently overseas, so aren't we being just a little bit hypocritical here? 
Also lets not forget OZ is an immigrant nation. We or our parents or grandparents etc all came here and got jobs at one stage or another...
I for one would rather have a yarpy pilot fulfilling DIMA's immigration goals thans many of the others I see us taking in these days... At least they are a positive and skilled bunch - adding something to our community!
The simple fact is we are short of experienced & type rated guys and our employers are too tight to pay for training or to pay enough $$$ to bring other Ozzies home from the sand pit etc. That should be the focus of any lobbying, not victimising 457 visa holders... (IMHO)
Also lets not forget OZ is an immigrant nation. We or our parents or grandparents etc all came here and got jobs at one stage or another...
I for one would rather have a yarpy pilot fulfilling DIMA's immigration goals thans many of the others I see us taking in these days... At least they are a positive and skilled bunch - adding something to our community!
The simple fact is we are short of experienced & type rated guys and our employers are too tight to pay for training or to pay enough $$$ to bring other Ozzies home from the sand pit etc. That should be the focus of any lobbying, not victimising 457 visa holders... (IMHO)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: InDahAir
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even if you brought in immigrants, it still wouldn't solve the problem of aircraft deliveries and retirements over the next five years. The problem is still going to get worse for the airlines before it gets better. I'd rather have experience in the cockpit than get too wrapped up in protection.
You didn't mention MINING d
I did as an EXAMPLE of other industries importing foreign labour ( Philippines )
HELLO???????????????
Maybe you could mention a few other industries as well?
Hospitals maybe?
Nah they have plenty of Docs and Nurses available don't they
I did as an EXAMPLE of other industries importing foreign labour ( Philippines ) HELLO???????????????
Maybe you could mention a few other industries as well?
Hospitals maybe?
Nah they have plenty of Docs and Nurses available don't they
NOPE not hypocritical at all
READ previous post # 15 and on.
SUPPLY AND DEMAND folks, SUPPLY AND DEMAND
AS they said on the Movie Madagascar: " just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"
THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF QUALIFIED PILOTS IN OZ, OR PEOPLE WANTING TO BE QUALIFIED PILOTS.
ONLY A SHORTAGE OF PEOPLE WILLING TO WORK FOR PEANUTS
READ previous post # 15 and on.
SUPPLY AND DEMAND folks, SUPPLY AND DEMAND
AS they said on the Movie Madagascar: " just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"
THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF QUALIFIED PILOTS IN OZ, OR PEOPLE WANTING TO BE QUALIFIED PILOTS.
ONLY A SHORTAGE OF PEOPLE WILLING TO WORK FOR PEANUTS
Last edited by ACMS; 23rd Apr 2008 at 08:41.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I tell ya what Victor 2, you sound like a management type. Quite evidently you are not part of the fraternity of Australian pilots. What you are is a PENGUIN. You are involved in aviation, but cant fly.
457 visas open up the Australian market to low paid coolies, nothing more. These people come as indentured labor and undercut what should be the Australian market rate of pay for Australian Pilots. Or do you not feel that the Australian Government should have a social contract with its citizens that gives them preference for employment?
The difference between myself (an expat Pilot) and the 457 pilot immigrants is that in the countries where I have worked overseas, the companies have had to PAY MORE THAN LOCAL RATES to attract aviation talent. This in itself serves to improve conditions for local pilots. The mechanism for this is shown by local Pilots becomming more attractive to employ once they gain the requisite skill set.
What the 457 program will do is undermine local Australian conditions and make it less attractive for Australian pilots to remain in the local industry or in regional operations. If you were a Pilot, you would understand this.
That's the issue, mate, we are good. We are experienced, but there are no "good" jobs in Australia. I wouldn't come back for what's on offer that's for sure.
457 visas open up the Australian market to low paid coolies, nothing more. These people come as indentured labor and undercut what should be the Australian market rate of pay for Australian Pilots. Or do you not feel that the Australian Government should have a social contract with its citizens that gives them preference for employment?
The difference between myself (an expat Pilot) and the 457 pilot immigrants is that in the countries where I have worked overseas, the companies have had to PAY MORE THAN LOCAL RATES to attract aviation talent. This in itself serves to improve conditions for local pilots. The mechanism for this is shown by local Pilots becomming more attractive to employ once they gain the requisite skill set.
What the 457 program will do is undermine local Australian conditions and make it less attractive for Australian pilots to remain in the local industry or in regional operations. If you were a Pilot, you would understand this.
If you are as good as you think you are, then you will have no worries getting good jobs here.
mate we are no different to other jobs.
Why should we pay $80,000+ to get our qualifications and then get paid LESS than a truck driver at the mines. THEN the Airlines CANNOT get anyone to FLY their shiny news planes so they say PILOT SHORTAGE then go overseas to find any Monkey to fly for PEANUTS.
UTTER BS
Go back to your desk and leave us alone.
Why should we pay $80,000+ to get our qualifications and then get paid LESS than a truck driver at the mines. THEN the Airlines CANNOT get anyone to FLY their shiny news planes so they say PILOT SHORTAGE then go overseas to find any Monkey to fly for PEANUTS.
UTTER BS
Go back to your desk and leave us alone.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Dunnybudgee, this is the crux of the issue:
Not the case at all. There is ample, AMPLE evidence on this forum that proves that there are many "experienced and type rated guys" who would love to come back to Oz even at existing rates.
ACMS-with you 100% on this one.
How do you think that the AMA would react if a whole bunch of Romanian, Vietnamese or Zimbabwian doctors come to Oz to work for $2000 USD per month? There is, after all, a shortage of doctors in Australia.
The simple fact is we are short of experienced & type rated guys
ACMS-with you 100% on this one.
How do you think that the AMA would react if a whole bunch of Romanian, Vietnamese or Zimbabwian doctors come to Oz to work for $2000 USD per month? There is, after all, a shortage of doctors in Australia.
Is this a case of the incumbents sitting back while the next generation get screwed again? Utterly disgraceful for sc@bs like this who would have no other legal right to work here to be brought in on a dodgy employer sponsored visa.
What are the oz unions doing about it????? I just started flying again and im off to join up and find out.
What are the oz unions doing about it????? I just started flying again and im off to join up and find out.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: airside
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From good authority, 457 visas will not be an issue for the Qantas Group pilots, the Government won't give the Qantas Group management anywhere near the numbers that they want .That includes JetStar, Eastern, Sunnies ,Qantas.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know how about we see that all pilot jobs currently going in OZ be listed with CenterLink. And all pilots seeking a job list themselves as available with CenterLink. Let this Govt Agency put the pieces of the ugly jigsaw puzzle together for us. Obvioulsy the current system is fraught with anger & dissapointment right across the board.
My thoughts are said with tongue in cheek to some degree 'cause I am not qualified to even begin to put that lot together but with threads like this I feel we are now showing signs of self destructing within
It's a bloody good job that we all LOVE flying 'cause I doubt any other industry would survive the sever instability we have between our ranks.
CW
My thoughts are said with tongue in cheek to some degree 'cause I am not qualified to even begin to put that lot together but with threads like this I feel we are now showing signs of self destructing within
It's a bloody good job that we all LOVE flying 'cause I doubt any other industry would survive the sever instability we have between our ranks.
CW
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
"the Government won't give the Qantas Group management anywhere near the numbers that they want "
Which allows us to ponder how many the previous Gummint would have granted
HOWARDS FAULT, HOWARDS FAULT, HOWARDS FAULT !!!
Which allows us to ponder how many the previous Gummint would have granted
HOWARDS FAULT, HOWARDS FAULT, HOWARDS FAULT !!!
there Is No Shortage Of Qualified Pilots In Oz, Or People Wanting To Be Qualified Pilots.
Only A Shortage Of People Willing To Work For Peanuts
Do you non-Pilot's get it yet??????????
YOU ARE NEXT........
Only A Shortage Of People Willing To Work For Peanuts
Do you non-Pilot's get it yet??????????
YOU ARE NEXT........
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ACMS, just to let you know that pilots are not the first (even in the aviation industry) to be treated this way. Recently, air traffic controllers were issued 457 visas in EXACTLY the same manner you are discussing here. Meanwhile, expat aussies were told they were "less suitable" than the foreigners sponsored by AsA (which is, in effect, a govt dept). How AsA was even allowed to provide 457 visas is a mystery (given that the criteria for issuing them was not met). A letter-writing campaign to ministers, MPs etc. may have had some effect. Time will tell.
I hope people understand that most do not take issue with those individuals who have availed themselves of this means of entry, it is those responsible for these activities who deserve the vitriol (and who also are directly responsible for causing the "shortage" in the first place).
You have to love the way the champions of 'globalisation' cannot stomach the consequences of a global market for skilled labour. Rather than pay 'global' money, they distort the market by selling the 'lifestyle' dream. Hypocrites.
I hope people understand that most do not take issue with those individuals who have availed themselves of this means of entry, it is those responsible for these activities who deserve the vitriol (and who also are directly responsible for causing the "shortage" in the first place).
You have to love the way the champions of 'globalisation' cannot stomach the consequences of a global market for skilled labour. Rather than pay 'global' money, they distort the market by selling the 'lifestyle' dream. Hypocrites.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kangaroo Court - please explain more about a/c deliveries and pilots required. I know QF have a big 787 order but I didn't apprechaite that the situation was that bad for airlines or that good for me wanting to come in on a 457 visa.
Dark Night I'm pretty sure that loophole has been closed now. Pilots were taken off the list of occupations that had a shortfall of qualified people, (introduced in 1989).
the list of occupations that had a shortfall of qualified people
- Also included are:
- ATCer,
- Flying Instructor,
- (L)AME.