Air Nelson ALPA pilots to strike
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..planet poor FO..pay rates have been stationary for 20 years here..thats a 3% pay cut per annum every year..what planet are you on..?
34 Flights cancelled today...... Am interested to read from the incompetent GM john shambleton was quoted saying that pilots only work on average 31 hours per week..... That is absolute bullsh*t. I remember working my ass off as a f/o a few years ago. How would he come up with that number? I have never heard of so many pilots (and experienced pilots) throwing in the towel and buggering off to greener pastures. I feel he is turning Air Nelson into another Eagle Motors.( No disrespect to Eagle pilots)
Good work ALPA. Stay strong, stay united and you will get what you are asking..
Good work ALPA. Stay strong, stay united and you will get what you are asking..
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Most of the time the company concerned just 'gives' the feds what ALPA has negotiated. Holidays act being a prime example in this case, didn't see the Federation in court helping out on that one, im sure the fed pilots will be happy to put their hands out for the settlement thou 
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..planet poor FO..pay rates have been stationary for 20 years here..thats a 3% pay cut per annum every year..what planet are you on..?
Remember what happened when US pilots applied the same simplistic thinking that you have come up with? The (idiotic) unions went along with it, forced the airlines to dramatically raise salaries, and two years later many of those airlines were in Chapter 11 and thousands of those pilots were out on the streets. Subsequently, the unions negotiated dramatically lower salary packages, just to get some of their members back into employment. Many of the pilots that actually managed to retain their jobs, ended up on lower salaries than they had originally been on. You should try reading a little, most of it is probably still in the PPRuNe archives. While you are there, read up on the Aussie '89 strike and the Ansett NZ strike. Worked really well, they did...
What a bar worker gets is irrelevant. Different industry with different dynamics. If you want to get paid what they get paid, go and get a job as a bar worker.
If you want to fly, there is (unfortunately) a rite of passage to be undergone, and that is low salaries in the early years. Airlines know how badly you want the job, and they exploit it.
It was only a short time ago that you were begging to get into an airline, and would probably have worked for food money. Now you have the job, you immediately start whining about the pay. Hey, you KNEW what the pay was before you joined up, right? And you were happy (even eager) to accept it.
Pay and conditions can be improved - just look beyond your shores - but it requires joined-up thinking, not just "gimme more money" rants.
I'm not saying any of this is good, by the way, but it is the way it is.
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Remoak, I don't believe that money is the main issue. It is one of a number of issues. Many are just life style choices, which the company who are supposed to be about supporting Air New Zealanders as we are called, make it about money in the media as that is what gets the public on their side. Greedy pilots who they all think are earning 150k plus. The journos obviously aren't all that investigative these days as a quick look at a few rosters would quickly show a couple of quotes in the Air NSN media release as being a stretch at best to just plain lying.
I have looked at friends rosters at Air NSN, who cover sickness on a standby system. The Captains during a normal week (not holidays) are generally hardly ever rostered Standby, why because he has not got enough crew. So to keep planes in the air he gets people working on their days off and leave to cover.
Considering they are not asking for anything more than current CPI projections, what is Air NZ's problem? When fuel goes up, the fuel surcharge gets slapped straight on. But then JH only gets his bonus by cutting costs and where can he cut costs?? By bullying and beating his staff into submission. After Mt Cook two years ago, I hoped that Air NZ managment may have changed their Brieley style of management, but it just goes to show that they are generally reactive and when a situation comes up they just do what they always do. But hey how else would you treat a great bunch of Air New Zealanders.
JH is still spouting that he has not got a pilot numbers problem, who is he kidding, they are leaving in droves at the moment, and some of them are or were in Air NSN for life, but are sick of getting the raw deal everytime we negotiate.
At Mt Cook, the then manager told the negotiators, that he could pay what was being sought but did not want too, far enough, that is why we negotiate, in the same breath he said, although he had a mandate (limit on what he could give) he had basically an open cheque book to fight any action we may possibly take against the company. Go figure
My ten cents worth. Air NSN fellow members, stay staunce and stay together.
Cheers
I have looked at friends rosters at Air NSN, who cover sickness on a standby system. The Captains during a normal week (not holidays) are generally hardly ever rostered Standby, why because he has not got enough crew. So to keep planes in the air he gets people working on their days off and leave to cover.
Considering they are not asking for anything more than current CPI projections, what is Air NZ's problem? When fuel goes up, the fuel surcharge gets slapped straight on. But then JH only gets his bonus by cutting costs and where can he cut costs?? By bullying and beating his staff into submission. After Mt Cook two years ago, I hoped that Air NZ managment may have changed their Brieley style of management, but it just goes to show that they are generally reactive and when a situation comes up they just do what they always do. But hey how else would you treat a great bunch of Air New Zealanders.
JH is still spouting that he has not got a pilot numbers problem, who is he kidding, they are leaving in droves at the moment, and some of them are or were in Air NSN for life, but are sick of getting the raw deal everytime we negotiate.
At Mt Cook, the then manager told the negotiators, that he could pay what was being sought but did not want too, far enough, that is why we negotiate, in the same breath he said, although he had a mandate (limit on what he could give) he had basically an open cheque book to fight any action we may possibly take against the company. Go figure
My ten cents worth. Air NSN fellow members, stay staunce and stay together.
Cheers
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Remoak, get your facts straight fella. 89 was more than a strike, but lets not go there. Ansett NZ in 99 was a LOCK OUT. A bloody big difference to a strike.
Rites of passage, blah blah; competitive environment, blah blah too.
Air Nelson can pay there pilots what they're worth, JH just doesn't want to.
When you see the "lifers" start to leave Air Nelson, you know that there's a problem
Rites of passage, blah blah; competitive environment, blah blah too.
Air Nelson can pay there pilots what they're worth, JH just doesn't want to.
When you see the "lifers" start to leave Air Nelson, you know that there's a problem
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Can someone please quote exactly from the Air Nelson contract what the base salary is and the total annual salary (allowances etc), I assume that your on 6 weeks leave plus 11 public holidays (equates to approx 8 weeks annual leave), # of days off per month. That way we can better informed.
I suspect that the 31 hour weeks equate to 1612 duty hours per annum.
I suspect that the 31 hour weeks equate to 1612 duty hours per annum.
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puma pants
I thought mattyj was a bit simple in his argument, but you are even simpler.
Ansett NZ - the endgame was a lockout, but it was a strike that started it. I remember it well, I was asked to come back from Europe to help out (which I didn't do, by the way).
An airline is like any other business, driven by supply and demand. The lesson of other, more competitive airline environments, is that if an airline is really desperate for pilots, salaries soar. I first went to Europe in the late '80s, and in the first year I was there, my salary went up by 35% - simply because it was the only way the airline could retain pilots.
You guys like to witter on about "pilots leaving in droves", but the reality is that if the NZ Link bosses were that concerned about pilot attrition, they would take steps to stem the flow. They aren't as stupid as you like to think they are, they know that without pilots they have no business, and if they have no business, they have no jobs.
What they are good at, is out-thinking and out-psyching the pilot work force. They seem to have you well under control.
And as for pilots working leave days and days off, well welcome to the real world, kiddies. That is absolutely standard in virtually every commuter airline in the western world.
I thought mattyj was a bit simple in his argument, but you are even simpler.
Ansett NZ - the endgame was a lockout, but it was a strike that started it. I remember it well, I was asked to come back from Europe to help out (which I didn't do, by the way).
An airline is like any other business, driven by supply and demand. The lesson of other, more competitive airline environments, is that if an airline is really desperate for pilots, salaries soar. I first went to Europe in the late '80s, and in the first year I was there, my salary went up by 35% - simply because it was the only way the airline could retain pilots.
You guys like to witter on about "pilots leaving in droves", but the reality is that if the NZ Link bosses were that concerned about pilot attrition, they would take steps to stem the flow. They aren't as stupid as you like to think they are, they know that without pilots they have no business, and if they have no business, they have no jobs.
What they are good at, is out-thinking and out-psyching the pilot work force. They seem to have you well under control.
And as for pilots working leave days and days off, well welcome to the real world, kiddies. That is absolutely standard in virtually every commuter airline in the western world.
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You're right remoak, it is supply and demand. At the moment there is sufficient demand for pilots, and sufficiently limited supply, that they can ask for better employment conditions safe in the knowledge that if the company doesn't play ball, they can move on. In a couple of years things will be different again, seat changes will be slow, and then everyone at Nelson will be glad conditions were improved "back in '08".
It's not rocket science, take it while you can 'cause it is managements job to keep costs down and they won't improve your conditions out of the goodness of their hearts. You have to sqeeeeeeze it out of the stoney buggers when the opportunity arises.
It's just business. And don't get too scared about the company going broke, there are plenty of management and administrative positions that have a productivity rating of zero that they could axe, plenty of bonuses that could be reduced. I know of load controllers (not that they fall in that catagory) who take home more pay than the pilots they deliver the load sheet to, so with that in mind I don't think it would be the pilots salary that brings the company to its knees.
It's not rocket science, take it while you can 'cause it is managements job to keep costs down and they won't improve your conditions out of the goodness of their hearts. You have to sqeeeeeeze it out of the stoney buggers when the opportunity arises.
It's just business. And don't get too scared about the company going broke, there are plenty of management and administrative positions that have a productivity rating of zero that they could axe, plenty of bonuses that could be reduced. I know of load controllers (not that they fall in that catagory) who take home more pay than the pilots they deliver the load sheet to, so with that in mind I don't think it would be the pilots salary that brings the company to its knees.
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6 weeks?!?!! Whatever....
I think they're more on 19 days leave plus 11 stats..
Salary dependent on years of service. Think it starts at around $65k ish for a Capt and $40k for a F/O.. plus allowances...
I think they're more on 19 days leave plus 11 stats..
Salary dependent on years of service. Think it starts at around $65k ish for a Capt and $40k for a F/O.. plus allowances...
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my (smallish ) company has a fuel bill amounting to between 100 to 500K per month (anecdotally and by multiplying one of the big fuel suppliers invoices by three to approximate the total fuel bill) Since AirNSN operates 10 times the aircraft with great big thirsty PW100s I assume that they would be paying in the order of several million dollars per month for fuel even with AirNZs massive discount for bulk orders in US dollars!
If you compare that with their wages bill the claims that pay rises for pilots are unaffordable is just an embarrassing joke.
While I'm at it..the big Koru needs to look seriously at they way it treats its staff at the big Airports (ramp, loaders, check in..) They are not working well as a team..seriously demoralised, and deserving of much more financial support.
If you compare that with their wages bill the claims that pay rises for pilots are unaffordable is just an embarrassing joke.
While I'm at it..the big Koru needs to look seriously at they way it treats its staff at the big Airports (ramp, loaders, check in..) They are not working well as a team..seriously demoralised, and deserving of much more financial support.
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Nope, no "rite of passage" in all the airlines in NZ that i have worked for over the years. Seen plenty of Pilots come from overseas and slot right in . I think if you are a ******** they will use some excuse to say "thanks, but no thanks". Just being polite really.
Most of the time the company concerned just 'gives' the feds what ALPA has negotiated. Holidays act being a prime example in this case, didn't see the Federation in court helping out on that one, im sure the fed pilots will be happy to put their hands out for the settlement
Must say something about their character.