Air NZ may fly jets in regions
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Gezundheit Matty ...
Ahem yeah because Whenuapai and Paraparaumu are both being investigated by Air NZ as low cost alternatives to AKL and WLG.
Now that could be the point ?
Maybe the E-190 is not intended for regional services at all but rather for a service between NZPP and NZWP ?
Bless you again Matty
I just love this place... If you sleuth enough you can figure out just exactly what Air NZ is planning.
Perhaps Air NZ wants a large TP for regional centres and the E-190 for it's main trunk battle with Pacific Blue ?
Ahem yeah because Whenuapai and Paraparaumu are both being investigated by Air NZ as low cost alternatives to AKL and WLG.
Now that could be the point ?
Maybe the E-190 is not intended for regional services at all but rather for a service between NZPP and NZWP ?
Bless you again Matty
I just love this place... If you sleuth enough you can figure out just exactly what Air NZ is planning.
Perhaps Air NZ wants a large TP for regional centres and the E-190 for it's main trunk battle with Pacific Blue ?
Seems to me the E-190 can only serve tourism demand ZQN-ROT and even then the E-190 is unable to use the 30 PCN F/C/X/T runway there at 46,990kg MTOW because the E-190 at Rotorua is ACN 33.
it's worth noting that airlines can request and often do receive, pavement concessions to operate aircraft at higher ACN's than the airports particular PCN, usually without catastrophic results. Therefore, in the case of the 190, operating at a small amount ACN higher than the PCN would not be a problem at some airports.
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why are we talking about MTOW for the E-190 for flights around NZ? The E-190 has a 2000 mile range. You would be nowhere near MTOW for flights like Nelson to Auckland. Do you want to fly Nelson-Sydney and Napier-Gold Coast?
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I think Virgin Blue was interested about a couple of years ago in ROT to BNE or other parts of Queensland, but I take your point.
The E-190 however does 2,300nm with around a paltry 60 pax (7,200kg payload).
The E-190 however does 2,300nm with around a paltry 60 pax (7,200kg payload).
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nelson was and still might be the 4th busiest airport in the country,
unlike other centres its pretty isolated, no trains etc etc, so flying is the main option, unless you want to spend several hours on a bus
unlike other centres its pretty isolated, no trains etc etc, so flying is the main option, unless you want to spend several hours on a bus
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Air Canada has a flight from Toronto to Seattle using an Embraer 190 with 9 Business Seats and 84 Economy Seats - a distance of some 2000 miles. I do not know if AC is worried about carrying freight on this flight, but that seems like an impressive payload range performance to me.
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The E-190LR will fly 93 pax at 86kg +32kg over 2000nm.
Isn't the point of this thread whether Air NZ will operate the long legged E-190 over short regional routes ?
Nelson has got to be the biggest neglected regional centre in NZ (notwithstanding HLZ and PMR suffer too)
nelson was and still might be the 4th busiest airport in the country,
unlike other centres its pretty isolated, no trains etc etc, so flying is the main option, unless you want to spend several hours on a bus
unlike other centres its pretty isolated, no trains etc etc, so flying is the main option, unless you want to spend several hours on a bus
Nelson has got to be the biggest neglected regional centre in NZ (notwithstanding HLZ and PMR suffer too)
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nelson was and still might be the 4th busiest airport in the country,
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crap...........outside of Auckland Wellington Christchurch comes Hamilton, Tauranga, Palmerston North, Queenstown. In fact PM is doing over 10000 movements / month which probably beats the lot. As long as I have been in this industry (30 odd years) Nelson has NEVER been 4th busiest.
In terms of domestic scheduled aircraft movements Nelson is number 4!!! There are about 30 -35 Q300 and 1900D scheduled return air nz flights per day to and from Nelson. Of the airports you suggested as being busier, Queenstown has just 12 or so 733 and ATR flights Hamilton has about 15 flights, Palmerston North is closest to Nelson with 20 or more return flights per day. Tauranga, is a busy recreational field but minimal in terms of scheduled aircraft traffic. To a certian extent the number of scheduled flights is a mute detail as it depends on the size of the equipment being operated. For example, Queenstown has similar passenger numbers to Nelson but only a third of the number of flights as the majority of flights operated there are 733s where as Nelson's are Q300s.
What we are talking about here is passenger numbers. More passengers = bigger planes IE more likelihood of sustaining an EMB 190 service. The number of recreational, training, freight flights etc is irrelevant.
In terms of passenger numbers here are the stats ( Domestic only):
Queenstown: 600,000
Hamilton: 330,000
Tauranga: 150,000
Pamerston North: 460,000
Dunedin: 620,000
Napier: 400,000
New Pymouth: 275,000
Nelson: 550,000
Regular Nelson Stats are not published but I estimate based on current flight schedules at 70% loading that current passenger numbers must be in the vicinity of 600,000 - 700,000. The Latest council stats in 2004 state 550,000 but there has been condsiderable growth since then.
As you can see from the info above and from the perspective of pure passenger numbers Queenstown, Dunedin and Nelson are the strongest markets to sustain regional jet services. Queenstown and Dunedin both have good infrastructure for regular jet operatins but poor old Nelson does not.
In terms of domestic scheduled aircraft movements Nelson is number 4!!! There are about 30 -35 Q300 and 1900D scheduled return air nz flights per day to and from Nelson. Of the airports you suggested as being busier, Queenstown has just 12 or so 733 and ATR flights Hamilton has about 15 flights, Palmerston North is closest to Nelson with 20 or more return flights per day. Tauranga, is a busy recreational field but minimal in terms of scheduled aircraft traffic. To a certian extent the number of scheduled flights is a mute detail as it depends on the size of the equipment being operated. For example, Queenstown has similar passenger numbers to Nelson but only a third of the number of flights as the majority of flights operated there are 733s where as Nelson's are Q300s.
What we are talking about here is passenger numbers. More passengers = bigger planes IE more likelihood of sustaining an EMB 190 service. The number of recreational, training, freight flights etc is irrelevant.
In terms of passenger numbers here are the stats ( Domestic only):
Queenstown: 600,000
Hamilton: 330,000
Tauranga: 150,000
Pamerston North: 460,000
Dunedin: 620,000
Napier: 400,000
New Pymouth: 275,000
Nelson: 550,000
Regular Nelson Stats are not published but I estimate based on current flight schedules at 70% loading that current passenger numbers must be in the vicinity of 600,000 - 700,000. The Latest council stats in 2004 state 550,000 but there has been condsiderable growth since then.
As you can see from the info above and from the perspective of pure passenger numbers Queenstown, Dunedin and Nelson are the strongest markets to sustain regional jet services. Queenstown and Dunedin both have good infrastructure for regular jet operatins but poor old Nelson does not.
Last edited by ramyon; 30th Dec 2007 at 20:45.
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I assumed the broad statement "Nelson is 4th busiest" to mean total aircraft movements as no reference was made to imply that the statement referred to Domestic Scheduled flights or pax numbers. Based on those 2 then you are absolutely right.
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http://www.nelsonairport.co.nz
unlike hamilton, tauranga etc where most of the people who want to get to auckland for example will just drive, nelson is in a unique position, unless you are really keen and have hours to spare, flying is the best option, nelson to wellington by plane can take as little as 20mins by car and ferry that turns into 6hours, nelson-christchurch by plane 40mins, by car upto 6 hours, nelson-auckland by plane 1.2hours, by car, all day+, im wondering why air nz dosnt offer nelson-blenheim, and nelson-westport/hokitika flights,
just out of interest i looked at the air nz website to see departures out of nelson for tomorrow, there are 11 flights to auckland (all dash-8),
6 to christchurch (dash-8) and 11 to wellington (all dash-8) and one to palmerston north (b1900d)
11 dash-8 flights at 50 seats each, could easily turn into 5-6 jet flights and still offer reasonable connections
unlike hamilton, tauranga etc where most of the people who want to get to auckland for example will just drive, nelson is in a unique position, unless you are really keen and have hours to spare, flying is the best option, nelson to wellington by plane can take as little as 20mins by car and ferry that turns into 6hours, nelson-christchurch by plane 40mins, by car upto 6 hours, nelson-auckland by plane 1.2hours, by car, all day+, im wondering why air nz dosnt offer nelson-blenheim, and nelson-westport/hokitika flights,
just out of interest i looked at the air nz website to see departures out of nelson for tomorrow, there are 11 flights to auckland (all dash-8),
6 to christchurch (dash-8) and 11 to wellington (all dash-8) and one to palmerston north (b1900d)
11 dash-8 flights at 50 seats each, could easily turn into 5-6 jet flights and still offer reasonable connections
Last edited by ZK-NSJ; 1st Jan 2008 at 03:02. Reason: add info
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Kiwi Guy said:
Great figures Raymon. Where did you get them ?
Hamilton, Queenstown, Dunedin, Napier and Palmerston North have good websites so I could find the stats on there. All the others are from Wikipedia or from news articles I'd read. Sorry, being a good student I should have referenced them. All the stats apply to the 2006/2007 year except for New plymouth which are projected numbrs for 2007 ending December.
ps anyone know how to use the quote function on these threads?
Great figures Raymon. Where did you get them ?
Hamilton, Queenstown, Dunedin, Napier and Palmerston North have good websites so I could find the stats on there. All the others are from Wikipedia or from news articles I'd read. Sorry, being a good student I should have referenced them. All the stats apply to the 2006/2007 year except for New plymouth which are projected numbrs for 2007 ending December.
ps anyone know how to use the quote function on these threads?
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Flights from South Island ports - Nelson and CHC are where the Q400 would show a real time advantage. AKL-NSN, I think would cut about 20 minutes off the block time, and sectors from CHC to Hamilton and Tauranga, Napier, New Plymouth would benefit. Though, as a passenger, what would you do with the 20 minutes saved? A re fill of your coffee?
From Nelson to Wellington, the best way to travel would be as in the Ford adverts with your car being carried by balloons. A big knitting needle to let the air out when you are over Wellington. There was a Flight International article a couple of years ago about Personal Air Vehicles - NASA is working on this. It might happen.
From Nelson to Wellington, the best way to travel would be as in the Ford adverts with your car being carried by balloons. A big knitting needle to let the air out when you are over Wellington. There was a Flight International article a couple of years ago about Personal Air Vehicles - NASA is working on this. It might happen.
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Quote alangirvan....." There was a Flight International article a couple of years ago about Personal Air Vehicles - NASA is working on this. It might happen."
so what type of "smoking materials" from the coromandel did you get for xmas this year alan????...sounds like it was the "good-stuff" indeed
may the new year get you a PAV...PB
so what type of "smoking materials" from the coromandel did you get for xmas this year alan????...sounds like it was the "good-stuff" indeed
may the new year get you a PAV...PB
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_air_vehicle
A few seconds on Google came up with lots of articles about PAVs - I was not making it up. The Jetsons will become reality. You will be able to drop the kids off at school in your own PAV.
Some of us do have time to read Flight International and AWST, and we can remain clear headed enough to remember articles we read a couple of years ago.
A few seconds on Google came up with lots of articles about PAVs - I was not making it up. The Jetsons will become reality. You will be able to drop the kids off at school in your own PAV.
Some of us do have time to read Flight International and AWST, and we can remain clear headed enough to remember articles we read a couple of years ago.
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Bang on ZK-NSJ what you've observed about Nelson.
Raymon, to help you, first you must highlight and copy the previous text to be quoted.
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Raymon, to help you, first you must highlight and copy the previous text to be quoted.
When you click on the "Reply" button the grey bordered text window pops up.
Above the text space is a toolbar. On one line it starts B I U
On the same tool bar line to the far right is a little emblem for a speech balloon in yellow. If you press that "Quote - Quote will appear bellow in the text window.
Put the cursor between the two bracketed "Quote" words and paste.
If you get it wrong the first time then muck around with editing until you get it right.
The emblem with a little globe and two chain links is the button for creating a hyperlink to another website. In that case you get a window where you have to paste the internet address, however first you may have to remove the http prompt or the link may not work.
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Atta boy.... Now back to the main course.
I think Pat Weil of Kiwijet fame had an ulterior motive to fly ERJ-145LR trans Tasman from provincial NZ and have some residual role on domestic routes.
Putting the E-190 on NZ domestic routes seems like an overkill except perhaps in some specific routes.
Whenuapai to Paraparaumu to take on Infratil's high landing charges might be a strategy which Air NZ is employing.
I think Pat Weil of Kiwijet fame had an ulterior motive to fly ERJ-145LR trans Tasman from provincial NZ and have some residual role on domestic routes.
Putting the E-190 on NZ domestic routes seems like an overkill except perhaps in some specific routes.
Whenuapai to Paraparaumu to take on Infratil's high landing charges might be a strategy which Air NZ is employing.
