Air NZ may fly jets in regions
 

Air NZ may fly jets in regions
By ROELAND VAN DEN BERGH - The Dominion Post | Monday, 03 December 2007

Jets could soon start flying into regional towns as part of a planned US$300 million (NZ$390 million) domestic fleet upgrade and opening of new routes by Air New Zealand.


Bruce Parton, Air New Zealand group general manager of short haul airlines, told BusinessDay that an order for about 15 aircraft would gradually replace the fleet of 11 ATR72-500 regional turboprops.

Among the three options being considered was the 104-seater Embraer E-190 jet which can land at almost any airport in the country.

The airline wanted to significantly increase regional services that offer substantial tourism growth, Mr Parton said.

Though they were faster and more comfortable, jets were more expensive and would come with higher fares than the two turboprop options being considered.

French manufacturer ATR is touting the 68-seat ATR72-600, which is the next generation of the current 500 model, as the most fuel efficient and the more environmentally friendly.

Canada's Bombardier has the 90-seat Q400X, a larger version of the Q300, which Air New Zealand introduced two years ago.

Mr Parton said most passengers preferred to fly on a jet rather than a noisier propeller aircraft. The question was whether passengers were prepared to pay a 10 per cent premium for a jet service, or if they preferred a similar fare reduction possible with the Q400X or ATR.

"This will come down to what the customer choice is," Mr Parton said.

House of Travel retail director Brent Thomas said price-conscious leisure passengers, who made up the bulk of regional markets, would opt for lower fares.

The bigger planes, however, would be welcomed by business travellers who were finding it difficult to get a seat to smaller centres at short notice, Mr Thomas said.

A more expensive jet service could also leave Air New Zealand vulnerable to a competitor who could come in with a cheaper turboprop option, he said.

Mr Parton said Air New Zealand was keeping a close eye on customer reaction in regional Australia where Virgin Blue has introduced the smaller Embraer E-170 jet to compete against Qantas, which uses Q300s.

If, despite higher fares, there was a clear preference for the jet, that could swing the decision in favour of the E-190.

But the Q400X appears most likely to get the nod when a final decision is made around March.

It meets Air New Zealand's requirement for a fast, cheap-to-run, 90-seat-plus aircraft that will significantly increase capacity.

The airline also has purchase options on the earlier Q400 model which can be converted for the Q400X, negotiated at the time of buying the Q300s.

The E-190 would also be subject to the more time-consuming pre-boarding security checks required for jets, which went against a drive to reduce the time people spent at the airport.

Mr Parton said both the E-190 and the Q400X would allow new non-stop long-distance services, such as Auckland to Invercargill, which could not sustain a 136-seat Boeing 737 service.

Air New Zealand has had a monopoly on the 26-destination regional network since the demise of Origin Pacific last year.

Pacific Blue, which began flying on the main trunk route last month, has indicated it could add some provincial destinations in two years, using its E-170 or E-190s.

Jungle jets
 

No they won't... this story's bollocks.
They know full well that jungle jets don't stack up on the short sectors... the numbers have been done.
Mt Cook have been campaigning to get Embraers for years... and the mothership won't let them.
The Q400 or possibly the 400X will be their choice, and to eventually replace the 733's as well.
It'll be a step change for punters used to a pure jet, but the economics are pretty compelling.

Tartare...yeah mate,this issue has been discussed many times on this sight and the know-alls will swear that this is the a/c that will solve all......ask how many of these know-alls who have flown them and know of the "'real" costs of operating them...and they are far and few.....reading a book and computer flying them has never given anyone the real picture of how they operate.....flew the 45 for a couple of years and know many who fly the 700/900s.... they are not cheap and I would certainly agree with you on your assesment.......apart from that...bottom line....they are faaaarkin uncomfortable to fly in as a passenger......if in fact you are built like twiggy....shes a good ride....but todays pax....(for the sake of being nice) are not your average twiggy..
...
my choice.....dash 400,s....or even the D0-328(prop or jet)...far more comfortable....and just as expensive...pb

Yeah its called they will fly with the opposition that has jets-especially business travellers.

Story is true.

SAW and ExpressJET of the USA today held meetings with ANZ about the long term lease of 10 x EMB-145 aircraft

Look's like your going to get pencil pushers........

Ta

SS320

Disagree
 

With the greatest of respect... the fact they've been meeting don't mean jack.
Even if they've talked numbers of a/c needed.
Anyone who prepares a business case knows you get the quotes from everyone and objectiovely weight them up; and then make the choice.
Don't get me wrong... I'd love to see pure jets out to the regions.
But flying an Embraer here just does not add up $$$$
End of story.
It'd be about as smart as cramming up the seats in a 737 to a 28" pitch really, wouldn't it...
...and we know that NZ would never try anything like that would they?!
Oooo... on second thoughts, maybe they're not as smart as I thought...;)

tartare

That doesn't make sense to me, a 78 seater turboprop to replace a 136 seat jet when your competition also flies jets.

Well it is ANZ we are talking about

Cost per seat mile
 

It all comes down cost per seat mile... on a 90 seat turboprop that has nearly the same time on a sector averaged out as a pure jet. Just increase your frequency to pick up the slack.
if you do the maths... on the sectors we have... they're more economical than a pure jet.
Jets are pricey.
It's got nothing to do with customers preferring jets.
Its got nothing to do with what the competition fly.
Its got nothing to do with the type of kit we as pilots like to fly.
It's allllll about $$$$
And in the airline game, he who flies cheapest without pi&^ing off the customer... wins.

Realsitically it will be the Q400 IMO, but I'd love to see the ATr 72-600 get a go.

RJs, pretty much no hope in hell IMO. Sectors are too short and costs too much to warrant it in New Zealand

Jets
 

Same.
Hell, I'd love to see VLJ air taxis operating here!!
But they won't.
:)

i can see airnz moving into jets at..the biggest change i have heard rumored is A319 replace the 733 fleet...also it seem well timed the mt cook renew a 2 year lease on the current atr's which happens to run out when the 1st options become avalible on Q400..the biggest concern faceing airnz link fleet is a suitble aircraft to help the fast ageing beech fleet:uhoh:..the only people sitting fat dumb and happy are air nsn..new planes, new routes and more money...i think in terms of pac blue in the airnz market you will see more of the 737 operating here rather than the embraer..expanding into pmr and hlz on routes up to the islands

as an aside, the Q400 (its still a bloody dash8 I reckon!!!) has copped a load of bad press lately, the Europeans have had a recent bad run with them - don't know if that would factor in to the pax appeal or not.

Propably by the time a decision is announced, all that will be forgotten about.

Hope ATR puts an APU into the 72-600, prop brake is a poor substitute.

haha this ite always cracks me up
 

Thought I'd throw my two cents in:}

"but I'd love to see the ATr 72-600 get a go."...........

Do you know the stats on this pig??????? the current machine has enough problems climbing, this thing has an extra 200kg and only the same CLB and CRZ power. Not ideal at all.

"That doesn't make sense to me, a 78 seater turboprop to replace a 136 seat jet when your competition also flies jets."

Ummmm big picture! We are not replacing the jets we are replacing the ATR's. Current AIR NZ make....Beech (19), Dash(50), ATR(68) and 733(136). The middle section is far to close hence the need for a 90 seater to get a better market spread.

Calling it (ATR 600) a PIG may be a bit harsh it is a nice bit of kit but not ideal for NZ conditions.:ok:

A319
 

A319 don't add up either, boys...
Maybe the A321 when domestic traffic's grown a bit more...:E

Baby bus is not even in the picture. Not worth talking bout:}

The ROT-CHC sector appears to be shared between the 737 and ATR during the busy and quiet tourist months respectively. I submit (humbly of course) this spread in capacity (substantial jet and a decent capacity, good value turbo prop) is better suited to changes in demand on any particular sector than an inbetween RJ...

And since we're all armchair know-it-alls, I assumed we all applied for 'Business in the Sky' then? :}

:) 'Business in the Sky'

I like your style however I like going on holiday with my leave therefore not Business in the Sky.:}

Well thats my two cents for another year! Have fun all

Hanz:ok:

In one of the NZ papers today, I read an article quoting a Snr AirNZ manager stating that the competition for customers will be on the ground and not in the air. This was in relation to saving passenger checkin time using web checkin, RFID tags on bags etc.

So this "on the ground" strategy, along with lounge access and frequency could be used to counter DJ in the bus market even with turbo props up against 737NG/E jet, while the lower CASM of a turbo prop would help target the VFF market. At least there is no middle seat on a turbo prop.

Another article mentioned expansion at nelson incl hanger space for Air Nelson growth.

There's going to have to big improve in that area. Staff travelled it the other day and used the self checkin kiosk which had the label printer attached. All checked in, boarding passes in hand, luggage labels attached and then proceeded to wait 30mins in queue to drop off checked in bags. 1 Bag drop operator with 40-odd people in the queue, had to attract attention of another staff member as our flight was called twice for boarding and then finally name paged and queue had barely moved. Apparantly lots of people in wrong queues because it's not the well laid out. We ran to get on flight but were last to board and approx. 6 commercial's pax got bumped due to not enough time to process bags.

The new engines are the PW127 M as opposed to the F, haven't seen the stats but I would assume there's extra grunt in there to cover the increase MAUW. The 68Y config will be the killer there. As stated earlier there needs to be a move towards 90 seats the spread the fleets from 50 -to 136.

Why? the prop brake seems to work well. It's only real limitation is not operating it when refuelling and loading the rear hold. As most refuels take place pretty quick on turn arounds you can have the No. 2 fired up before boarding the next load. Why have a 3rd turbine engine to maintain?

Depends on what/who you want to believe, but quite a few in the company are saying the Q400 is a done deal, all signed up etc


Did anyone notice the full page ads in the NZ main newspapers from Bombardier congratulating QantasLink for their 12 x Q400 order to compete with VB Embraer's. Think it all adds up to Air NZ taking the same tack, competing the gas guzzelling jets with similar performance, fuel efficient turboprops.

My pick - Q400 to initially introduce type with the 400X to be the final model


S2K