Air NZ may fly jets in regions
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Before Christmas Pacific Blue said they were going to tell us soon what their third 737-800 in NZ domestic service was going to do.
Perhaps this is AirNZ's way of guessing which ports PB might be thinking of serving, and causing PB to defer those services.
Perhaps this is AirNZ's way of guessing which ports PB might be thinking of serving, and causing PB to defer those services.
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Have spoken to a few in the know and dont think e-jets are an option at this stage. Sticking with 737 commone fleet works well and as said in the release helps cope in disrupt situations.
alangirvan think your right that they are trying to use a bit of scare tactics. I also hear its because of pressure coming from within these towns esp Palmy and Invers...... Shadbolt has been trying to make invers an international airport for decades! not that Im sure he would sway any decisions
ramyon whats this stuff all about
????
alangirvan think your right that they are trying to use a bit of scare tactics. I also hear its because of pressure coming from within these towns esp Palmy and Invers...... Shadbolt has been trying to make invers an international airport for decades! not that Im sure he would sway any decisions
ramyon whats this stuff all about
????
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Will increased jet capacity mean a reduction in ATR capacity? Will we see the MTCook fleet shrink?
Just meant maybe not................thought the icon suited don't you?
Sorry Meant no offence.....
ramyon whats this stuff all about ????
????
Sorry Meant no offence.....
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Before Christmas Pacific Blue said they were going to tell us soon what their third 737-800 in NZ domestic service was going to do.
Perhaps this is AirNZ's way of guessing which ports PB might be thinking of serving, and causing PB to defer those services.
Perhaps this is AirNZ's way of guessing which ports PB might be thinking of serving, and causing PB to defer those services.
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Air NZ responding
The announcement of B733 a/c "on trial" into some of the larger regional centres is more likely to be designed to counter any Pac Blue E jet introduction while Air NZ decides its final approach to the issue, rather than representing a new long term business proposition.
As for Wanaka, no show of significant development there to accomodate larger a/craft. It is owned and controlled by QLDC, the owners of, and significant investor in, ZQN. No way they will allow that investment to be undermined - a lot of potential Wanaka pax traffic travels through ZQN because of lack of frequency and/or expensive seats ex Wanaka.
As for Wanaka, no show of significant development there to accomodate larger a/craft. It is owned and controlled by QLDC, the owners of, and significant investor in, ZQN. No way they will allow that investment to be undermined - a lot of potential Wanaka pax traffic travels through ZQN because of lack of frequency and/or expensive seats ex Wanaka.
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Me thinks perhaps you are all wrong....
Air NZ announced today that they will be flying B737-300s into more domestic airports from mid-March. Airports to be announced in the coming weeks.
Rumours abound that the fields may be Hamilton, Palmerston North, Napier or Invercargill.....
Air NZ announced today that they will be flying B737-300s into more domestic airports from mid-March. Airports to be announced in the coming weeks.
Rumours abound that the fields may be Hamilton, Palmerston North, Napier or Invercargill.....
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Me thinks perhaps you are all wrong....
Air NZ announced today that they will be flying B737-300s into more domestic airports from mid-March. Airports to be announced in the coming weeks.
Rumours abound that the fields may be Hamilton, Palmerston North, Napier or Invercargill.....
Air NZ announced today that they will be flying B737-300s into more domestic airports from mid-March. Airports to be announced in the coming weeks.
Rumours abound that the fields may be Hamilton, Palmerston North, Napier or Invercargill.....
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Ramyon- no worries, sweet as
I actually think you could be right about Mount Cook delaying their decision esp with the Q400 projects up in the air. All the same I think Air NZd will be flying any jets with a koru, regardless of what type...... latest negotiations reinforce that with the push to secure section 7 of the contract.
Indigo duck- for sure, any airport on the NZd network that could support a 737 is likely to be trialled.
I actually think you could be right about Mount Cook delaying their decision esp with the Q400 projects up in the air. All the same I think Air NZd will be flying any jets with a koru, regardless of what type...... latest negotiations reinforce that with the push to secure section 7 of the contract.
Indigo duck- for sure, any airport on the NZd network that could support a 737 is likely to be trialled.
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Nah, never learnt to read .....
My flight instructor said it wouldn't be necessary if I wanted to learn to fly
I was referring to the discussion between the turboprops and RJs on the domestic operation.
My flight instructor said it wouldn't be necessary if I wanted to learn to fly
I was referring to the discussion between the turboprops and RJs on the domestic operation.
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Nah, never learnt to read .....
My flight instructor said it wouldn't be necessary if I wanted to learn to fly
My flight instructor said it wouldn't be necessary if I wanted to learn to fly
I was referring to the discussion between the turboprops and RJs on the domestic operation.
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Another topic - can't be bothered starting a new thread. You know this idea of SkyAirWorld operating 6 737-900ERs as Lion Air Australia. (Read some of the Australian threads about this one)
If Australia can do it, NZ can do it as well. Lion Air NZ, joint venture with Lion Air providing 2 737-900ERs to be operated by a mystery company. (Kiwijet?)
This is totally my fabrication, but this plane would be the greatest for Trans Tasman.
If Australia can do it, NZ can do it as well. Lion Air NZ, joint venture with Lion Air providing 2 737-900ERs to be operated by a mystery company. (Kiwijet?)
This is totally my fabrication, but this plane would be the greatest for Trans Tasman.
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If Australia can do it, NZ can do it as well. Lion Air NZ, joint venture with Lion Air providing 2 737-900ERs to be operated by a mystery company. (Kiwijet?)
I also think that it's suicide for a start up airline to commit to the NZ domestic market without first having a solid international connection. Operators like Lion/Air AsiaX etc. could provide that to the likes of KiwiJet.
Pacific blue/ Virgin have gone around it the right way in my opinion establish yourself on international routes first then hit the domestic market.
Rob Fyfe's also hinting about Air NZ introducing an international training facility in NZ for Pilots/ engineers...possibly a joint venture with other training providers.......
Last edited by ramyon; 11th Jan 2008 at 20:28.
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All the cities in the AirNZ media release are cities that had jet services in 737-200 days. Dunedin is the only one that still has domestic jet services. Prime time? Dunedin already has a prime time flight to WLG. The first flight of the day from AKL brings people to DUD off international flights. I do not think they would overnight the AKL plane and give us an early start to AKL, would they? The international connections are the main reason for having a non stop to AKL.
DUD-CHC is well served by ATRs, perhaps a daily 737 a peak times.
Invercargill used to have its jet services tagged onto DUD. The 737-300 is not a friend of such short sectors, and the DUD-WLG flight has to start in DUD, because we do not want a plane starting in IVC flying over DUD on a foggy July day. IVC does have good service with ATRs and a Q300 non stop to WLG. They might lose that non stop to WLG. Which is better - a non stop TP or a one stop jet through CHC?
I think the start date of PB's next plane in NZ is slipping. On the front page of todays's ODT, a PB spokesperson said DUD might get service some time in 2008, and other cities are still being considered. They talked about Queenstown, but they would want to be sure that ZQN will be reliably open to their planes in most weathers before they commit to that port. PB may or may not be reaching the targets they set for an operation that started over the NZ summer. Will they make good yields out of DUD if their only passengers are families going up to AKL for rock concerts?
DUD-CHC is well served by ATRs, perhaps a daily 737 a peak times.
Invercargill used to have its jet services tagged onto DUD. The 737-300 is not a friend of such short sectors, and the DUD-WLG flight has to start in DUD, because we do not want a plane starting in IVC flying over DUD on a foggy July day. IVC does have good service with ATRs and a Q300 non stop to WLG. They might lose that non stop to WLG. Which is better - a non stop TP or a one stop jet through CHC?
I think the start date of PB's next plane in NZ is slipping. On the front page of todays's ODT, a PB spokesperson said DUD might get service some time in 2008, and other cities are still being considered. They talked about Queenstown, but they would want to be sure that ZQN will be reliably open to their planes in most weathers before they commit to that port. PB may or may not be reaching the targets they set for an operation that started over the NZ summer. Will they make good yields out of DUD if their only passengers are families going up to AKL for rock concerts?
Regional Jet Airports
Invercargil had the B732 overnight via DUD. It also had the weekday CHC IVC CHC midday flight as well. The loads were not high as I recall, usually in the 80 to 90 pax range. Both overnight B732 would meet in DUD and one would fly WLG AKL and the other would fly DUD CHC.
HLZ also had an overnight jet every day except Sat, as I recall the departure time ex WLG limited by crew duty break requirements and was not popular.
Napier had a daily AKL NPE CHC jet that replaced the Fokker flights. It required some changes in tyre pressure to meet the PCN requirements.
PMR also had a Jet in the morning and night as a WLG PMR AKL in the morning and a AKL PMR WLG at night. Big loads on the WLG PMR WLG sectors were 10 pax but usually just the 1 or 2.
ROT used to have two flights a day with the B732 CHC ROT AKL and CHC ROT CHC
The B732 has also operated charter flights to Gisbourne, New Plymouth and Woodburne so could also be candidates.
The B733 has also done proving flights to TRG and also had some diversions from ROT as well.
To have an ideal departure/arrival for overnight operations require two crews due to crew rest requirements.
HLZ also had an overnight jet every day except Sat, as I recall the departure time ex WLG limited by crew duty break requirements and was not popular.
Napier had a daily AKL NPE CHC jet that replaced the Fokker flights. It required some changes in tyre pressure to meet the PCN requirements.
PMR also had a Jet in the morning and night as a WLG PMR AKL in the morning and a AKL PMR WLG at night. Big loads on the WLG PMR WLG sectors were 10 pax but usually just the 1 or 2.
ROT used to have two flights a day with the B732 CHC ROT AKL and CHC ROT CHC
The B732 has also operated charter flights to Gisbourne, New Plymouth and Woodburne so could also be candidates.
The B733 has also done proving flights to TRG and also had some diversions from ROT as well.
To have an ideal departure/arrival for overnight operations require two crews due to crew rest requirements.
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Yeah it looks like things may have gone full circle since the dropping of 737-200 services in the mid nineties. Glad to say we still very occasionally get these babies flying into Blenheim on charters.
However, the NZ domestic market has grown alot since then and these regional markets handle nearly twice as many passengers now as they were handling back in the nineties. According to the AirNZ website domestic numbers have grown from 5.8 mill to nearly 7.8 mill (should crack 8 this year) in the last five years alone. It just might be the right time... especially if jet flights further stimulate these markets. I guess also that these days due to the absurd fuel prices jet flights also need to run at considerably higher load factors, 75%+ compare to perhaps only 60% back then to make it worth while...Who knows maybe Air nz are willing to run a few jet flights at a loss to dump capacity on these routes and keep PB from making a go of it in the regions?
However, the NZ domestic market has grown alot since then and these regional markets handle nearly twice as many passengers now as they were handling back in the nineties. According to the AirNZ website domestic numbers have grown from 5.8 mill to nearly 7.8 mill (should crack 8 this year) in the last five years alone. It just might be the right time... especially if jet flights further stimulate these markets. I guess also that these days due to the absurd fuel prices jet flights also need to run at considerably higher load factors, 75%+ compare to perhaps only 60% back then to make it worth while...Who knows maybe Air nz are willing to run a few jet flights at a loss to dump capacity on these routes and keep PB from making a go of it in the regions?
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Then someone with a fleet of cheaper TPs steps in with more frequency et voila... undercuts and detroys the jet services again.
Like watching the magic roundabout this.
Incidentally the 733 is a lot heavier than the 732 so it would be payload limited on longer routes anyway. Cool if you don't mind flying half full 733s.
Make the business case Mr Shadbolt and they will come.
Like watching the magic roundabout this.
Incidentally the 733 is a lot heavier than the 732 so it would be payload limited on longer routes anyway. Cool if you don't mind flying half full 733s.
Make the business case Mr Shadbolt and they will come.
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Then someone with a fleet of cheaper TPs steps in with more frequency et voila... undercuts and detroys the jet services again.
At the moment one 733 flight roughly equals two ATR flights. It shouldn't be a problem to offer one or two 737 flights per day to Invercargill for example and still have at least 3-5 TP flights too. The big question I am inclined to ask is what is Air NZ going to do with all this spare ATR capacity ? Not to mention they are still increasing the size of the Q300 fleet going from the current 19 at present to a whopping 23 by mid 2009. Where are all these extra passengers coming from?
Incidentally the 733 is a lot heavier than the 732 so it would be payload limited on longer routes anyway. Cool if you don't mind flying half full 733s
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They might lose that non stop to WLG. Which is better - a non stop TP or a one stop jet through CHC?
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Apparently loads on the WLG/IVC/WLG flights have been very good. Second daily to start end of March.