Air NZ may fly jets in regions
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Not quite sure what you are on about with regard to DUD and the runway length.
Freedom Air was operating B733 DUD to Aussie they are still doing the same with the Bus so there is obviously not a problem with length at DUD for Trans Tasman operations.
The original runway was built for B737-200 Basic operations, complete with approach RADAR services. NAC even built a hangar for the overnight B737 to be housed. The runway was lengthened in the late 1980 to allow direct Tasman operations by B767-200 aircraft. I believe QF have operated a 200 there last decade on a charter basis however there is not the population base to support an aircraft the size of a B767.
Freedom Air was operating B733 DUD to Aussie they are still doing the same with the Bus so there is obviously not a problem with length at DUD for Trans Tasman operations.
The original runway was built for B737-200 Basic operations, complete with approach RADAR services. NAC even built a hangar for the overnight B737 to be housed. The runway was lengthened in the late 1980 to allow direct Tasman operations by B767-200 aircraft. I believe QF have operated a 200 there last decade on a charter basis however there is not the population base to support an aircraft the size of a B767.
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Err... who operates that service? Not Air NZ that I know of, although Mainland Air run a IFR/VFR via Alexandra but that's more a local shuttle
there is one between DUD and ZQN though.
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Mainline are doing Dunedin to Queenstown (possibly via Alexandra ?) with an 8 seat Chieftan. Rumoured to be seeking a 19 seat aircraft for services.
No I was not hinting at 767 operations.
1700m is a tad tight for anything trans Tasman in terms of take off weight.
No I was not hinting at 767 operations.
1700m is a tad tight for anything trans Tasman in terms of take off weight.
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Oh dear, the fares are too dear!!
NZ carrier slashes domestic air fares
Air New Zealand is cutting domestic air fares by up to 30 per cent to stimulate demand as the airline struggles to fill an increased number of seats.
The airline, which faces competition on domestic routes from Australian carriers Pacific Blue and Qantas, yesterday slashed prices for almost 40 domestic services, with those in the regions standing to benefit the most.
The change, effective immediately for travel from February 23, means a drop of between 9 and 27 per cent on lead-in Smart Saver fares - the lowest available everyday fares - while the top rate on regional routes popular with business customers falls by between 20 and 30 per cent.
Top-end fares on travel between the main centres also drops by 15 per cent.
Chief executive Rob Fyfe said the new pricing strategy was geared towards stimulating travel and tourism within New Zealand.
Air New Zealand had increased seat capacity on regional routes by 46 per cent in the past 2 1/2 years, but was struggling to fill the extra seats despite growing passenger numbers, he said.
That was in contrast with international flights where load factors - seats filled - were rising.
"There's no value for an airline flying around with empty seats."
Rival Pacific Blue's general manager commercial, Adrian Hamilton-Manns, said Air NZ's move was "an admission that it has been charging too much for too long on domestic flights".
"We said we'd set out to keep the air fair in New Zealand and this is the result. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery so we take it as a compliment because, really, would they be doing this if we hadn't started local flights? We kind of doubt it."
Qantas was more taciturn. Regional general manager Grant Lilley said: "We will continue to remain competitive in the pricing that we offer across all of our domestic New Zealand routes."
But Mr Fyfe said the move did not have any "direct connection" to competition from Pacific Blue and Qantas, as they were not flying the vast majority of routes affected by the price cut.
He said drops in international fares were "less likely" with high oil prices, as fuel made up around 55 to 60 per cent of a longhaul flight's operating costs, compared with 20 to 25 per cent of a domestic flight.
Bruce Parton, the group's general manager for short-haul airlines, said it was about encouraging more travel rather than charging higher fares. But fuel prices and airport charges meant the group could not offer across-the-board cuts.
Air NZ's popular Grabaseat promotion, which offers new daily super-low fares on selected routes, would stay.
House of Travel retail director Brent Thomas said the move would encourage even more travel, especially to the smaller town centres.
A Ministry of Tourism-run domestic travel survey showed a $1 billion rise in domestic travel spending to $8 billion in the year to last September, up 10.4 per cent from the year before.
Air New Zealand is cutting domestic air fares by up to 30 per cent to stimulate demand as the airline struggles to fill an increased number of seats.
The airline, which faces competition on domestic routes from Australian carriers Pacific Blue and Qantas, yesterday slashed prices for almost 40 domestic services, with those in the regions standing to benefit the most.
The change, effective immediately for travel from February 23, means a drop of between 9 and 27 per cent on lead-in Smart Saver fares - the lowest available everyday fares - while the top rate on regional routes popular with business customers falls by between 20 and 30 per cent.
Top-end fares on travel between the main centres also drops by 15 per cent.
Chief executive Rob Fyfe said the new pricing strategy was geared towards stimulating travel and tourism within New Zealand.
Air New Zealand had increased seat capacity on regional routes by 46 per cent in the past 2 1/2 years, but was struggling to fill the extra seats despite growing passenger numbers, he said.
That was in contrast with international flights where load factors - seats filled - were rising.
"There's no value for an airline flying around with empty seats."
Rival Pacific Blue's general manager commercial, Adrian Hamilton-Manns, said Air NZ's move was "an admission that it has been charging too much for too long on domestic flights".
"We said we'd set out to keep the air fair in New Zealand and this is the result. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery so we take it as a compliment because, really, would they be doing this if we hadn't started local flights? We kind of doubt it."
Qantas was more taciturn. Regional general manager Grant Lilley said: "We will continue to remain competitive in the pricing that we offer across all of our domestic New Zealand routes."
But Mr Fyfe said the move did not have any "direct connection" to competition from Pacific Blue and Qantas, as they were not flying the vast majority of routes affected by the price cut.
He said drops in international fares were "less likely" with high oil prices, as fuel made up around 55 to 60 per cent of a longhaul flight's operating costs, compared with 20 to 25 per cent of a domestic flight.
Bruce Parton, the group's general manager for short-haul airlines, said it was about encouraging more travel rather than charging higher fares. But fuel prices and airport charges meant the group could not offer across-the-board cuts.
Air NZ's popular Grabaseat promotion, which offers new daily super-low fares on selected routes, would stay.
House of Travel retail director Brent Thomas said the move would encourage even more travel, especially to the smaller town centres.
A Ministry of Tourism-run domestic travel survey showed a $1 billion rise in domestic travel spending to $8 billion in the year to last September, up 10.4 per cent from the year before.
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3b1/3c1
NZ1, we're both right.
From Boeing:
737-300: 2x CFM International CFM563B1 @89.0kN (20,000lb) or CFM563B2 @97.9kN (22,000lb).
737-400: 2x CFM563B2 @97.9kN (22,000lb) or CFM563C1 @104.5kN (23,500lb).
Air NZ did have 3B1 versions arrive as they added to the fleet, but yes are all 3C1's now - though with the 22k chip.
As for the -7 being used on the 734 QF fleet, that came from one of QF's FO's. Which prob means it's wrong!! All due love to QF crew!
From Boeing:
737-300: 2x CFM International CFM563B1 @89.0kN (20,000lb) or CFM563B2 @97.9kN (22,000lb).
737-400: 2x CFM563B2 @97.9kN (22,000lb) or CFM563C1 @104.5kN (23,500lb).
Air NZ did have 3B1 versions arrive as they added to the fleet, but yes are all 3C1's now - though with the 22k chip.
As for the -7 being used on the 734 QF fleet, that came from one of QF's FO's. Which prob means it's wrong!! All due love to QF crew!
Last edited by 1279shp; 28th Jan 2008 at 08:01.
Kiwiguy the DUD runway is 1900 meters, Takeoff weight on 21 is just on 60 tonne for the B737-300 on a standard day, 03 is slightly less at 58 tonne. Called the airport manager about how freedom got loads off the runway, "a few times a year they had problems with low pressures, hot days and a northerly usually in the summer". The bus does it even better, according to the books.
So the runway is not limiting or stopping anyone from operating at DUD for international operations to Aussie east coast.
Mainland operate DUD to Alexandra on a semi sched basis, no punters no operate according to the Operations Manager in the ODT. They only fly on a charter basis to ZQN.
So the runway is not limiting or stopping anyone from operating at DUD for international operations to Aussie east coast.
Mainland operate DUD to Alexandra on a semi sched basis, no punters no operate according to the Operations Manager in the ODT. They only fly on a charter basis to ZQN.
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Kiwiguy the DUD runway is 1900 meters, Takeoff weight on 21 is just on 60 tonne for the B737-300 on a standard day, 03 is slightly less at 58 tonne. Called the airport manager about how freedom got loads off the runway, "a few times a year they had problems with low pressures, hot days and a northerly usually in the summer". The bus does it even better, according to the books.
Mainland operate DUD to Alexandra on a semi sched basis, no punters no operate according to the Operations Manager in the ODT. They only fly on a charter basis to ZQN.
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How many international scheduled flights has Invercargill attracted since extending it's runway? Answer a big fat zero. Other than the odd RNZAF Orion going to the southern ocean on patrols the cost of the extension has produced limited rewards.
Dunedins 1950mtr runway seems to work well with the bus on the trans Tasman routes with the very odd flight goining via CHC for gas on rare high temp low pressure days maybe once or twice a year.It occured more when Freedom used the 733.
Trans Tasman flights from Dunedin would only ever need the A320 or the 738 in the immediate future so a runway the size of INV is hardly warranted.
With ANZ taking over SJ routes hopefully MEL all year round instead of summer only and the reintroduction of OOL might happen. Heres hoping
Dunedins 1950mtr runway seems to work well with the bus on the trans Tasman routes with the very odd flight goining via CHC for gas on rare high temp low pressure days maybe once or twice a year.It occured more when Freedom used the 733.
Trans Tasman flights from Dunedin would only ever need the A320 or the 738 in the immediate future so a runway the size of INV is hardly warranted.
With ANZ taking over SJ routes hopefully MEL all year round instead of summer only and the reintroduction of OOL might happen. Heres hoping
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MEL year round from DUD, and services to OOL?
Yes, here's hoping. MEL will stop at end of Daylight Savings, and we have to hold our breath to see if we will get it back for Summer 08/09.
OOL? If you read the ODT you will see it is full of offers for flights to OOL - through Christchurch. Apparently someone thinks we want to drive up to CHC to get our holiday (250 mile drive.) rather than fly DUD-BNE and take a bus to Surfers (about 70 miles). Is there someone at AirNZ Holidays who has forgotten that AirNZ will be flying DUDBNE? AirNZ Holidays is the big office in the Octagon that is now closed since mid 2007. There are parts of NZ that are south of Christchurch.
Yes, here's hoping. MEL will stop at end of Daylight Savings, and we have to hold our breath to see if we will get it back for Summer 08/09.
OOL? If you read the ODT you will see it is full of offers for flights to OOL - through Christchurch. Apparently someone thinks we want to drive up to CHC to get our holiday (250 mile drive.) rather than fly DUD-BNE and take a bus to Surfers (about 70 miles). Is there someone at AirNZ Holidays who has forgotten that AirNZ will be flying DUDBNE? AirNZ Holidays is the big office in the Octagon that is now closed since mid 2007. There are parts of NZ that are south of Christchurch.
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Thats why we need another operator out of Dunedin domestic and trans Tasman.They only drop the fares when they have to.
SJ fare to BNE and return just before Christmas $980 and only 72 pax on board know wonder there were empty seats.
ANZ CHC-BNE fares and CHC-SYD $50 cheaper than DUD direct fares.
So if 3or 4 people are travelling it makes sense to drive to CHC and go JET* and people are doing this.
SJ fare to BNE and return just before Christmas $980 and only 72 pax on board know wonder there were empty seats.
ANZ CHC-BNE fares and CHC-SYD $50 cheaper than DUD direct fares.
So if 3or 4 people are travelling it makes sense to drive to CHC and go JET* and people are doing this.
ANZ CHC-BNE fares and CHC-SYD $50 cheaper than DUD direct fares.
And yes that old chessnut; lets get another airline to operate so they can both lose money on the route instead of one making a slim profit.
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MDA ANZ being $50 cheaper ex CHC comes from having to compete with 4 other operators on the SYD route and 2 others on the BNE route.
Nothing to do with economies of scale.
Fyfe announces across the board cuts in domestic fares to cut off any new entrant at the pass when fuel prices have never been higher- fares are getting lower.
Whos been having who on for years???.
Nothing to do with economies of scale.
Fyfe announces across the board cuts in domestic fares to cut off any new entrant at the pass when fuel prices have never been higher- fares are getting lower.
Whos been having who on for years???.
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Nothing to do with economies of scale.
Fyfe announces across the board cuts in domestic fares to cut off any new entrant at the pass when fuel prices have never been higher- fares are getting lower.
Whos been having who on for years???.
Fyfe announces across the board cuts in domestic fares to cut off any new entrant at the pass when fuel prices have never been higher- fares are getting lower.
Whos been having who on for years???.
Virgins' great at blowing it's own trumpet about it's cheap prices but I would guarantee that if they weren't the little guy ( In the NZ market I'm talking about) and the shoe was on the other foot they would be much slower to drop airfares and add additional air services than AIr NZ has been....It's a tread carefully strategy for them just a couple of airplanes to start with, no rapid expansion .. they don't like to take risks. Hats off to Air NZ for being the risk taker in his game and I'm glad to see it's paying dividends literally.
Having said that Dunedin definately could do with some more competition and I wouldn't be surprised to see Dunedin and Queenstown added to the list of destinations when PB gets it's third aircraft in March.
Last edited by ramyon; 30th Jan 2008 at 09:44.
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Yeah I just got pretty much the same info from an old mate pilot about tt flights. was wondering where the 1700 was coming from, rather than the bit over 1900m
umm re DJ's comments, they can be brave about it but I am sure they hurting too.
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It's a tread carefully strategy for them just a couple of airplanes to start with, no rapid expansion .. they don't like to take risks. Hats off to Air NZ for being the risk taker in his game and I'm glad to see it's paying dividends literally.
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Thought they had an endless supply of Govt money
Last edited by ramyon; 31st Jan 2008 at 05:51.
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Form today's press
Australia's Virgin Blue says it will spend up to $A20 million ($NZ23.3m) expanding its network, including New Zealand domestic flights, this year.
The airline's offshoot, Pacific Blue, began flying on the New Zealand main trunk route in November with two Boeing 737-800 jets. It has been flying on the Tasman since 2004.
In November, the airline said it would add a third Boeing to the domestic fleet in April when more planes were delivered.
"The continued investment in new initiatives including further expansion in the New Zealand domestic market is likely to incur a further $A20m in one-off development costs in this financial year," the airline said yesterday, in releasing its interim result.
Australia's No. 2 airline said its net profit fell 8.8 per cent to $A113.3m, from the 2006 December half. Record fuel costs and aggressive competition hit earnings. It predicted a tough year lay ahead.
"There is not a lot of appetite out there for people to pay any more for tickets at the moment, because of the capacity that is there," chief executive Brett Godfrey said.
A detailed review had been started by the board to consider options to enhance shareholder value, Virgin Blue said. It was also "assessing a number of expressions of interest".
Godfrey would not specify if this involved Virgin Blue selling some assets or airlines, or a potential bid for the group.
Majority owner Toll Holdings was seeking a buyer for its stake and is due to report its results today.
Virgin Blue said it had ordered four more Embraer 190 E-Jets and converted another three purchase rights to options for the same model.
The order takes the total number of Embraer regional jets to 24, including 18 of the 104-seat E-190s and six of the smaller E-170 model, three of which are already in service in Australia.
At the time of the launching the New Zealand domestic service Godfrey suggested the Embraers could also be used on regional routes here.
Could virgin be sending Emb-190s our way? If so I think it highly likely that Air NZ will give the Emb-190 the nod over the Q400.
Australia's Virgin Blue says it will spend up to $A20 million ($NZ23.3m) expanding its network, including New Zealand domestic flights, this year.
The airline's offshoot, Pacific Blue, began flying on the New Zealand main trunk route in November with two Boeing 737-800 jets. It has been flying on the Tasman since 2004.
In November, the airline said it would add a third Boeing to the domestic fleet in April when more planes were delivered.
"The continued investment in new initiatives including further expansion in the New Zealand domestic market is likely to incur a further $A20m in one-off development costs in this financial year," the airline said yesterday, in releasing its interim result.
Australia's No. 2 airline said its net profit fell 8.8 per cent to $A113.3m, from the 2006 December half. Record fuel costs and aggressive competition hit earnings. It predicted a tough year lay ahead.
"There is not a lot of appetite out there for people to pay any more for tickets at the moment, because of the capacity that is there," chief executive Brett Godfrey said.
A detailed review had been started by the board to consider options to enhance shareholder value, Virgin Blue said. It was also "assessing a number of expressions of interest".
Godfrey would not specify if this involved Virgin Blue selling some assets or airlines, or a potential bid for the group.
Majority owner Toll Holdings was seeking a buyer for its stake and is due to report its results today.
Virgin Blue said it had ordered four more Embraer 190 E-Jets and converted another three purchase rights to options for the same model.
The order takes the total number of Embraer regional jets to 24, including 18 of the 104-seat E-190s and six of the smaller E-170 model, three of which are already in service in Australia.
At the time of the launching the New Zealand domestic service Godfrey suggested the Embraers could also be used on regional routes here.
Could virgin be sending Emb-190s our way? If so I think it highly likely that Air NZ will give the Emb-190 the nod over the Q400.
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The Plot thickens
Today's Southland times...
Pacific Blue is expected to announce flights to Invercargill and Dunedin soon as it ramps up its domestic network by introducing a new aircraft.
The Christchurch-based Australian budget airline added main trunk domestic services to its trans-Tasman operation in November, forcing rivals Air New Zealand and Qantas to drop their cheapest standard fares by $20.
Pacific Blue will take delivery of a seventh 180-seat Boeing 737-800 at the end of next month.
This will allow the airline to increase its domestic fleet to three, and also increase capacity on the Tasman.
It is understood the Invercargill service would link to Auckland via Christchurch and the Dunedin service would likely be direct from Wellington.
Wellington was also expected to receive more flights to Australia.
Invercargill Airport chief executive Barry Bouton said he had been in negotiations with Pacific Blue over a protracted period.
"We are confident that they will be making some major announcements in our favour," he said.
Invercargill Mayor Tim Shadbolt said it would be fantastic if the airline confirmed flights to Invercargill.
He was unsure if such a move would impact on ticket prices but believed it would beneficial for freight in and out of the city.
There had been problems getting cyclists and their bikes into Invercargill for competitions at the city's velodrome.
Some competitors were having to travel to Queenstown and then on to Invercargill.
Additional flights might solve the problem, he said.
The decision would set up a head-to-head clash with Air New Zealand, which last month said it was considering the two southern centres for trial jet services using its smaller 136-seat Boeing 737-300s.
Air New Zealand said it would offer six-month trial services to at least two regional centres that could drum up enough support to make them profitable.
The others being considered were Hamilton and Palmerston North.
Air New Zealand head of short haul airlines, Bruce Parton, said passenger demand from the four cities was just below that required to be economical for a 737 or, in the case of Dunedin, additional jet services.
A final decision on which of the cities would receive the trials was expected next month.
A Virgin Blue spokeswoman said an announcement on either Invercargill or Dunedin as its next port would be made shortly.
However, industry sources said Pacific Blue would fly to both cities.
Air New Zealand has those routes to itself.
Qantas flies between the main centres and to Queenstown and Rotorua.
Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey said "as there is currently a monopoly provider of air travel to and from these cities we're looking forward to bringing some serious competition to the south".
"We have been reviewing several destinations for regional services but the combination of distance and lack of airline competition in Invercargill and Dunedin made those cities obvious contenders for consideration," Mr Godfrey said.
Thought it might provoke some more discussion to this dead thread. Interesting to note that since Pacific Blue started flying it's mere two jet aircraft and both Air NZ and Qantas hav announced service upgrades and reduced fares, domestic passeger numbers at the big 3 airports have been stimulated between 15-30% for the months of Nov 07 - Jan 08.
..are E- starting to appear as a real possibility....for Air NZ? I'm sure that if Pacific Blus starts flyingto Dunedin numbers there will show similar growth..Gotta be good news to travellers in that part of the world.
Pacific Blue is expected to announce flights to Invercargill and Dunedin soon as it ramps up its domestic network by introducing a new aircraft.
The Christchurch-based Australian budget airline added main trunk domestic services to its trans-Tasman operation in November, forcing rivals Air New Zealand and Qantas to drop their cheapest standard fares by $20.
Pacific Blue will take delivery of a seventh 180-seat Boeing 737-800 at the end of next month.
This will allow the airline to increase its domestic fleet to three, and also increase capacity on the Tasman.
It is understood the Invercargill service would link to Auckland via Christchurch and the Dunedin service would likely be direct from Wellington.
Wellington was also expected to receive more flights to Australia.
Invercargill Airport chief executive Barry Bouton said he had been in negotiations with Pacific Blue over a protracted period.
"We are confident that they will be making some major announcements in our favour," he said.
Invercargill Mayor Tim Shadbolt said it would be fantastic if the airline confirmed flights to Invercargill.
He was unsure if such a move would impact on ticket prices but believed it would beneficial for freight in and out of the city.
There had been problems getting cyclists and their bikes into Invercargill for competitions at the city's velodrome.
Some competitors were having to travel to Queenstown and then on to Invercargill.
Additional flights might solve the problem, he said.
The decision would set up a head-to-head clash with Air New Zealand, which last month said it was considering the two southern centres for trial jet services using its smaller 136-seat Boeing 737-300s.
Air New Zealand said it would offer six-month trial services to at least two regional centres that could drum up enough support to make them profitable.
The others being considered were Hamilton and Palmerston North.
Air New Zealand head of short haul airlines, Bruce Parton, said passenger demand from the four cities was just below that required to be economical for a 737 or, in the case of Dunedin, additional jet services.
A final decision on which of the cities would receive the trials was expected next month.
A Virgin Blue spokeswoman said an announcement on either Invercargill or Dunedin as its next port would be made shortly.
However, industry sources said Pacific Blue would fly to both cities.
Air New Zealand has those routes to itself.
Qantas flies between the main centres and to Queenstown and Rotorua.
Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey said "as there is currently a monopoly provider of air travel to and from these cities we're looking forward to bringing some serious competition to the south".
"We have been reviewing several destinations for regional services but the combination of distance and lack of airline competition in Invercargill and Dunedin made those cities obvious contenders for consideration," Mr Godfrey said.
Thought it might provoke some more discussion to this dead thread. Interesting to note that since Pacific Blue started flying it's mere two jet aircraft and both Air NZ and Qantas hav announced service upgrades and reduced fares, domestic passeger numbers at the big 3 airports have been stimulated between 15-30% for the months of Nov 07 - Jan 08.
..are E- starting to appear as a real possibility....for Air NZ? I'm sure that if Pacific Blus starts flyingto Dunedin numbers there will show similar growth..Gotta be good news to travellers in that part of the world.
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Too true.
Where ever they have flown to and for that matter discount operators worldwide... it has grown the markets, not divided what was there.
For example, Polynesian Blue has increased the Samoan traffic 36% since starting.
Where ever they have flown to and for that matter discount operators worldwide... it has grown the markets, not divided what was there.
For example, Polynesian Blue has increased the Samoan traffic 36% since starting.