Air NZ may fly jets in regions
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If you apply the Shadbolt principle to education to air travel, all flights to/from Invercargill will be free for the passenger. Would you have a holiday in Invercargill if you could get there for nix?
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One thing you have all forgotten is that security services will be required at all those regional airports that will have jet departures. One of the reasons passengers cannot be uplifted out of IVG is the lack of security.
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yeah there you go....2 737,s .....solve the woes of kiwi,s regional air service...
Alan ....the ball is in your court for sure,and Ill eat humble pie if you ,in the end are right......Ill even buy you a few tinnies........
I think its a little too early for the victory lap.....My bet is AirNZ got these 73,s at a bloody good price and couldnt afford to let them go,(apart from the fact they needed them)......it also makes sense to test the market and see how well she goes......the crews are already trained,the seat cost per mile ,and the operating costs known.......not that big of an investment at all.......
Alan ....the ball is in your court for sure,and Ill eat humble pie if you ,in the end are right......Ill even buy you a few tinnies........
I think its a little too early for the victory lap.....My bet is AirNZ got these 73,s at a bloody good price and couldnt afford to let them go,(apart from the fact they needed them)......it also makes sense to test the market and see how well she goes......the crews are already trained,the seat cost per mile ,and the operating costs known.......not that big of an investment at all.......
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In this part of the world 737-500s have never been popular. Ansett NZ were going to start with 735s until Ansett made them use 146s. The only 735 here was one at Air Pacific.
If AirNZ is shopping around for planes for regional centres, would the smaller 735 be any use? About 120 seats in same configuration as AirNZ 733s.
Complaint about shrunk aircraft is that they are often as expensive to operate as the full sized plane, minus the seats for revenue. I think Boeing sold more 735s than they expected, and 735s have worked in the fleets of BA, AF, LH and United. If 735s give you a break even for some cities that is lower than for a 733, this would be worth it?
If AirNZ is shopping around for planes for regional centres, would the smaller 735 be any use? About 120 seats in same configuration as AirNZ 733s.
Complaint about shrunk aircraft is that they are often as expensive to operate as the full sized plane, minus the seats for revenue. I think Boeing sold more 735s than they expected, and 735s have worked in the fleets of BA, AF, LH and United. If 735s give you a break even for some cities that is lower than for a 733, this would be worth it?
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http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=307833
Just in case there are people who do not read other D & G threads, there is the link to the discussion about Lion Air Australia. As you see, at the start of the discussion everyone was asking who is the Australian partner, by the end of the first day it was revealed as SkyAirWorld. A joint venture with SAW holding 51% and Lion Air 49%. The airline will do some Australian domestic flying, and some flying between Australia and Indonesia. The guy from Lion Air said he wants to set up these venture all around Asia - the next one will be Thailand. He has orders for 122 737-900ERs, and he needs to place the planes somewhere.
So, I asked our own NZ thread, if he wants to set up ventures all over the place, why not NZ?
These 739s can seat 215 passengers and fly upto 3200 miles, so you would not use them for NZ domestic, not even AKL-WLG. If Pakeha-Boy would be interested in doing a fly over at Warbirds over Wanaka in a 739, by all means.
These are Trans Tasman out of NZ. Trans Tasman could be done by the Australian operation, but it suits PacificBlue and Jetstar to have Trans Tasman operated out of CHC, so LionNZ would have the same advantage. You might have planes rotating through the Australian base for periodic maintenance, or even better, have the Australian planes come to NZ for their checks.
LionNZ and Lion Australia can offer joint fares so that Kiwis can go to Asia for holidays, and people from Asia can come to the South Island for ski holidays - better value than ski holidays at any Australian ski resorts.
A joint venture like this is really a franchise - you use some of the ideas of an overseas company. This is Lion. Could be Air Asia NZ. Any time Pakeha-Boy would like to come home to be Chief Pilot for Skybus NZ, just say.
Just in case there are people who do not read other D & G threads, there is the link to the discussion about Lion Air Australia. As you see, at the start of the discussion everyone was asking who is the Australian partner, by the end of the first day it was revealed as SkyAirWorld. A joint venture with SAW holding 51% and Lion Air 49%. The airline will do some Australian domestic flying, and some flying between Australia and Indonesia. The guy from Lion Air said he wants to set up these venture all around Asia - the next one will be Thailand. He has orders for 122 737-900ERs, and he needs to place the planes somewhere.
So, I asked our own NZ thread, if he wants to set up ventures all over the place, why not NZ?
These 739s can seat 215 passengers and fly upto 3200 miles, so you would not use them for NZ domestic, not even AKL-WLG. If Pakeha-Boy would be interested in doing a fly over at Warbirds over Wanaka in a 739, by all means.
These are Trans Tasman out of NZ. Trans Tasman could be done by the Australian operation, but it suits PacificBlue and Jetstar to have Trans Tasman operated out of CHC, so LionNZ would have the same advantage. You might have planes rotating through the Australian base for periodic maintenance, or even better, have the Australian planes come to NZ for their checks.
LionNZ and Lion Australia can offer joint fares so that Kiwis can go to Asia for holidays, and people from Asia can come to the South Island for ski holidays - better value than ski holidays at any Australian ski resorts.
A joint venture like this is really a franchise - you use some of the ideas of an overseas company. This is Lion. Could be Air Asia NZ. Any time Pakeha-Boy would like to come home to be Chief Pilot for Skybus NZ, just say.
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ansett nz actually started out with a couple of clapped out 737-100's,
as i recall the first few off the production line, i think newmans who they might have been linked with had a dash-7 as well, lets not forget that the
737-500 is around the same size as the -200 that air nz had for many years
as i recall the first few off the production line, i think newmans who they might have been linked with had a dash-7 as well, lets not forget that the
737-500 is around the same size as the -200 that air nz had for many years
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Yes I forgot about the 737-100s. When I was in Canberra, I was with an Engineer from Ansett Engineering. They had just had a phone call from AirNZES, who were working on one of the 737-100s, and asked the Ansett people in Melbourne to jump on the next plane and come and see the corrosion. The 735s were to replace that start up fleet.
All this talk about jets going into these regional airports makes more room to put the props into Whakatane and take up the load that would certainly increase if we also flew to anywhere else other than AKL. Cheap to expand a the runway great weather and ripe for expansion.....
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Those of us who are a little older, will remember when Air NZ did operate 737's into Napier, Palmerston North, and Invercargill.
That was I think, the mid to late 80's, I remember going to CHC on a 737 via PNTH. The wheel revolves a full circle, possibly a hint of competition has helped a bit.
That was I think, the mid to late 80's, I remember going to CHC on a 737 via PNTH. The wheel revolves a full circle, possibly a hint of competition has helped a bit.
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One thing you have all forgotten is that security services will be required at all those regional airports that will have jet departures. One of the reasons passengers cannot be uplifted out of IVG is the lack of security.
Kiwijet was keen to get the ERJ-145LR because it would allow domestic routes at peak times and trans Tasman flights from regional centres in the quiet off peak periods.
I clambered around in the belly of Air Pacific's 735 and compared to the 732 it has next to no hold capacity. Especially the nose hold.
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i sent off an email to the general manager of nelson airport, asking her weather or not she would be keen for 737's, and weather or not an upgrade was in the pipeline, the jist of her reply was that, most regional centres would rather have frequency over capacity, she say however that lengthening the runway would be costly but if the airlines asked them too then they probably would and they do have plans in place should that arise
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the jist of her reply was that, most regional centres would rather have frequency over capacity, she say however that lengthening the runway would be costly but if the airlines asked them too then they probably would and they do have plans in place should that arise
I have a feeling that even if the airport had 100% backing from the airlines and they had a rock solid business case for expansion it still wouldn't happen anytime soon. Theres just too many committee meetings and members to get through first...The two major shareholders of the airport namely the TDC and NSN regional councils aren't exactly renowned for their forward thinking in terms of spending money on infrastructure. That's a major reason why Nelson lost the hugely successful Wearable Art Awards( which saw passenger traffic through the airport almost double on the week it was held ) in my opinion. They wouldn't bite the bullet then to build a descent venue so they lost it to Wellington.
Not to mention all the lobbying from the large greeny fringe ( who are largely imports to the region, not local born folk ) there who are anti development and want to Keep Nelson as untouched by the hands of man
as possible. They would be very anti -regular jet flights, too noisy for the " Shire" don't you know? I hate to say it even though Nelson is one of the busiest if not busiest regional airports in nZ it will probably be one of the last to get regular jet schedules.
props to ZK-NSJ for sending the e-mail..
Last edited by ramyon; 15th Jan 2008 at 05:05.
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Quote..."If AirNZ is shopping around for planes for regional centres, would the smaller 735 be any use? About 120 seats in same configuration as AirNZ 733s."
mate,weve got the 320,s.......get the 319,s then.......124 pax config would just about work
raymon......your comment about noise in Nelson....valid for sure,but its the same old argument......"we only want to be part of the real world when it suits us "
flew into Nelson 3 weeks ago......left downwind entry (from Wgtn)over the water.....yeah it was a prop and idle.....surprised anyone ever heard them......smooth and quiet.....
mate,weve got the 320,s.......get the 319,s then.......124 pax config would just about work
raymon......your comment about noise in Nelson....valid for sure,but its the same old argument......"we only want to be part of the real world when it suits us "
flew into Nelson 3 weeks ago......left downwind entry (from Wgtn)over the water.....yeah it was a prop and idle.....surprised anyone ever heard them......smooth and quiet.....
And here we go down here at Whakatane.......just been announced an extra flight daily to and from Wellington.......the time is right that is for sure.....you guys keep arguing about your jets we will continue to grow slowly but surely here....
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fergineer quote..."And here we go down here at Whakatane".......
jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus mate ...get it right.......its "up here in ****atane"........and down here in bloody gore.....look at the map ay!!
jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus mate ...get it right.......its "up here in ****atane"........and down here in bloody gore.....look at the map ay!!
Silly old me but according to my mates in the North we here in Whakatane are down here......Will be in Porirua next month will see what it feels like then!!!!!!
But still good news on the extra flights to Wellington and yes it will be downhill to there as well before you ask!!!!!!
Cheers
Fergi
But still good news on the extra flights to Wellington and yes it will be downhill to there as well before you ask!!!!!!
Cheers
Fergi
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737-500
If this is here already apologies - but Air NZ IS getting a 737-400.
As for the 735, Southwest launched the little Boeing, they still have 25 in service. They fly them with 122 seats, including a 'business' layout with club seating.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0408836/L/
(Interestingly SWA operate their -700's at the same capacity of their -300's - 137 pax.)
Using a 735 is like going back to the 732 capacity wise as they're basically they same sized aircraft. The reality is that a 'small' 737 is going to cost about the same as a bigger one anyway, so one would suggest the 733's will stay. I'd actually put a beer or three on the acqusition of more 734's! Up to 158 in Air NZ setout and can be flown on same ticket. Plus there are a few good ones around. Or here's a curly one, they may buy 734 Combi's - hello night-freight!
As for the A319? They'll go back to using 732's and Friendships before before puttng them in service. Among other things the cost of updating ground handling equipment - and the extra labour required - among many other costs - can't be justified. Plus they'd get killed with the cycles!
We all know the 733 services are a toe in the water to gauge load factors - and to give a clear message to any competitor. Stand in front of the freight train and the obvious will happpen!
As for the 735, Southwest launched the little Boeing, they still have 25 in service. They fly them with 122 seats, including a 'business' layout with club seating.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0408836/L/
(Interestingly SWA operate their -700's at the same capacity of their -300's - 137 pax.)
Using a 735 is like going back to the 732 capacity wise as they're basically they same sized aircraft. The reality is that a 'small' 737 is going to cost about the same as a bigger one anyway, so one would suggest the 733's will stay. I'd actually put a beer or three on the acqusition of more 734's! Up to 158 in Air NZ setout and can be flown on same ticket. Plus there are a few good ones around. Or here's a curly one, they may buy 734 Combi's - hello night-freight!
As for the A319? They'll go back to using 732's and Friendships before before puttng them in service. Among other things the cost of updating ground handling equipment - and the extra labour required - among many other costs - can't be justified. Plus they'd get killed with the cycles!
We all know the 733 services are a toe in the water to gauge load factors - and to give a clear message to any competitor. Stand in front of the freight train and the obvious will happpen!
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PS:
Oh and the 734 uses the same engine as 733 too.
Interestingly doing some looking, Air NZ uses both the CFM56-3B1 and
-3C1 variants - somtimes on the one aircraft - at 22,000lbs.
Though you can put in the 'chip' to take it back to 20,000.
A mate at Jet Conn tells me their engines have come off 738's and been rechipped for the lower thrust ratings!
Another mate - yes I know! - who flies for American has his 738 fleet rated at 20 + 22k. 738's can go up to 27,300k.
Interestingly doing some looking, Air NZ uses both the CFM56-3B1 and
-3C1 variants - somtimes on the one aircraft - at 22,000lbs.
Though you can put in the 'chip' to take it back to 20,000.
A mate at Jet Conn tells me their engines have come off 738's and been rechipped for the lower thrust ratings!
Another mate - yes I know! - who flies for American has his 738 fleet rated at 20 + 22k. 738's can go up to 27,300k.