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Mega Merged: AsA ATC staffing levels

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Mega Merged: AsA ATC staffing levels

Old 7th Dec 2007, 23:01
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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"Thanks for your letter. I have forwarded your concerns on to AsA and CASA."
I believe that was the response from DOTARS, not the minister.
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Old 8th Dec 2007, 02:51
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Apologies. I stand corrected.

R.S.
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Old 19th Dec 2007, 03:37
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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I notice big problems for operators in YMMM FIR today. This appears to be an issue that I have noticed deteriorating as time goes by.

Surely someone must be prepared to standup and take responsibility for this or do they get paid a performance bonus for reducing costs?




ATS C5814/07
ATS IN THE MELBOURNE FIR SUBJECT TO CONTINGENCY
DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE.

AREA A: MELBOURNE CENTRE 120.3, 123.4, 125.4, AND 122.4 (SOUTH-WEST
WESTERN AUSTRALIA).
APRX AREA: 36NM SOUTH-EAST PH, HOOD POINT, YWDG, YDON, NORTH-WEST
ALONG 80NM ARC PH TO 30NM SOUTH-EAST JNB, 25NM NORTH-EAST JNB, 200NM
NORTH-WEST PH, 160NM WEST PH, 36NM WEST PH, NORTH ALONG 36NM ARC PH
TO 36NM SOUTH-EAST PH.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - A085 BTN 36 - 90NM PH SFC - FL180 OUTSIDE
90NM PH.

AREA B: MELBOURNE CENTRE 122.4, 123.9, 124.9 AND 120.3 (SOUTH-WEST
WESTERN AUSTRALIA).
APRX AREA: 36NM WEST PH, 160NM WEST PH, SOUTH ALONG 160NM ARC PH TO
30NM SOUTH-WEST YAUG, 100NM SOUTH-WEST YABA, 150NM SOUTH-EAST YABA,
HOOD POINT, 36NM SOUTH-EAST PH, SOUTH ALONG ARC 36NM PH TO 36NM WEST
PH.
VERTICAL LIMITS: AREA B SFC - FL600

MAJOR ATS ROUTES: W172 BTN 36NM PH AND YABA.

ATC SER ARE NOT AVBL IN CLASSES A, C AND E AIRSPACE.
DIRECTED TRAFFIC ADVISORY INFO SER IS NOT AVBL IN CLASS E AND G
AIRSPACE.
DIRECTED TRAFFIC SER IS NOT AVBL IN CLASS G AIRSPACE.
ADS/CPDLC LOGON: YMMM SER NOT AVBL THIS AIRSPACE.
FLW PROC APPLY: TRAFFIC INFO BCST PROC (TIBA) AS DETAILED IN AIP GEN
3.3 AND ICAO ANNEX 11 SHALL BE USED.
TCAS AND TRANSPONDER EQPT MUST BE SELECTED AT ALL TIMES.
IN-FLIGHT INFO, SARTIME AND EMERG ALERTING SER ARE AVBL ON REQ FROM
FLIGHT WATCH.
PILOTS CONSIDERING OPR IN THIS AIRSPACE SHOULD CTC THE MELBOURNE OPS
DIRECTOR TEL +613 93356671 FOR FURTHER INFO.
FROM 12 182200 TO 12 190130
0712182200 TO 0712182300

0712190030 TO 0712190130



ATS C5817/07
DELAYS CAN BE EXPECTED FOR TRAFFIC INTENDING TO TRANSIT AIRSPACE
DUE TO ATC STAFF SHORTAGE

YMMM/BATHURST (NSW CENTRAL TABLELANDS). CONTINGENCY MAP AVAILABLE AT
HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/.../DESERTBTH.PDF

APPROXIMATE AREA:
AREA A: 5 NM S KAT NDB, 30 NM NW BIK, 10 NM E YYNG, 12 NM SE YPKS,
MDG VOR, 20 NM NW YSRI, SOUTH ALONG 45 NM ARC SY. VERTICAL LIMITS:
SFC - FL180

AREA B: 10 NM S YYNG, YFBS, 30 NM SW YSDU, 40 NM SW MDG VOR, 12 NM SE
YPKS, 10 NM E YYNG. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL245 AREA C: 30 NM SW
YSDU, 40 NM SW MDG VOR, MDG VOR, 15 NM NE YSDU. VERTICAL LIMITS:
FL180 - FL245 FREQUENCIES: MELBOURNE CENTRE 135.25 AND 118.5 (MT
CANOBOLAS).

MAJOR ROUTES:
KAT TO BTH, CWR, ORG PKS AND 50 NM SE DU W751 BTN RILEY AND YNG DU,
PKS, ORG AND BTH TO BIK V295 BTN 45 NM NW SY TO 50 NM SE DU

PILOTS REQUIRING MORE INFO REGARDING OPR IN THIS AIRSPACE SHOULD CTC
THE MELBOURNE OPERATIONS DIRECTOR TEL ON +613 93356671.
FROM 12 190400 TO 12 191000

ATS C5818/07
DELAYS CAN BE EXPECTED
FOR TRAFFIC INTENDING TO TRANSIT AIRSPACE
DUE TO ATC STAFF SHORTAGE.

YMMM/DUBBO (CENTRAL WEST NSW - DUBBO, WARREN, TOTTENHAM AREA).

CONTINGENCY MAP AVAILABLE AT
HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/.../DESERTDUB.PDF AP

APROXIMATE AREA:
AREA A: 20 NM SW CNM, 10 NM S NYN, 20 NM W CDO, FBS, 15 NM NE DU.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL285

AREA B: 30 NM SW YSDU, 40 NM SW MDG VOR, MDG VOR, 15 NM NE YSDU.
VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL180

FREQUENCIES:
MELBOURNE CENTRE 123.9 (DUBBO) MAJOR ROUTES: UH226 BTN ABM DU AND
NYN ROUTES FROM DU SE TO 50 NM DU A576, G222 AND J141 FROM PKS TO 70
NM W PKS W540 BTN DU AND HUMOK W731 BTN DU AND LLAMA W516 BTN DU AND
75 NM W DU PILOTS REQUIRING MORE INFO REGARDING OPR IN THIS AIRSPACE
SHOULD CTC THE MELBOURNE OPERATIONS DIRECTOR TEL ON +613 93356671.
FROM 12 190400 TO 12 191000

ATS C5819/07
DELAYS CAN BE EXPECTED FOR TRAFFIC INTENDING TO TRANSIT AIRSPACE
DUE TO ATC STAFF SHORTAGE.

YMMM/BOURKE (CENTRAL WEST NSW, UPPER LOWER WESTERN DISTRICTS).

CONTINGENCY MAP AVAILABLE AT
HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/...SERTBKEBOG.PDF

APPROXIMATE AREA: 15 NM NE DU, AROLI, 60 NM W KARAG, APOMA, TAROR,
NEWMO, 60 NM S NEWMO, 50 NM NW GTH, CDO, FBS, 15 NM NE DU. VERTICAL
LIMITS: FL285 - FL600

FREQUENCIES: MELBOURNE CENTRE 128.2 (BOURKE).

MAJOR ROUTES: W540 (DU - BKE) A576 BTN PKS AND APOMA G222 BTN PKS
AND TAROR J141 BTN PKS AND NEWMO T77 BTN VENEL AND NYN T74 BTN NYN
AND KARAG Y340 BTN NYN AND PECAN UH408 BTN DOXIE AND NYN Y23 BTN
VENEL AND OKAPI H319 BTN NYN AND PKS UH226 BTN ABM DU AND NYN T91 BTN
APOMA AND AROLI T139 BTN TOBOB AND COORS W516 (DU - BHI) W421 (CBA -
BKE)

PILOTS REQUIRING MORE INFO REGARDING OPR IN THIS AIRSPACE SHOULD CTC
THE MELBOURNE OPERATIONS DIRECTOR TEL ON +613 93356671.
FROM 12 190400 TO 12 191000

ATS C5820/07
DELAYS CAN BE EXPECTED
FOR TRAFFIC INTENDING TO TRANSIT AIRSPACE DUE TO ATC STAFF SHORTAGE.

YMMM/TEMORA (RIVERINA AREA NSW)

CONTINGENCY MAP AVAILABLE AT
HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/.../DESERTTEM.PDF

APRX AREA:
FBS, CTM, 15 NM N WG, 40 NM S GTH, 30 NM W GTH, YHLS, 20 NM W CDO,
FBS VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - FL245

FREQUENCIES: MELBOURNE CENTRE 134.65 (MT BINGAR).

MAJOR ROUTES: H44 BTN 30 NM W CWR AND 30 NM W GTH W751 BTN YNG AND
NAR ROUTES TO AND FROM GTH VOR (WITHIN 30 NM TO THE WEST).

PILOTS REQUIRING MORE INFO REGARDING OPR IN THIS AIRSPACE SHOULD CTC
THE MELBOURNE OPERATIONS DIRECTOR TEL ON +613 93356671.
FROM 12 190400 TO 12 191000
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Old 19th Dec 2007, 05:37
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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That is exactly what is/has been going on (for a while).
Obviously keeping the shop open wasn't a KPI.
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Old 19th Dec 2007, 11:44
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Until it starts costing Airservices money their management won't care. The facts are that the job is being done, they are collecting their nav charges, people aren't dying...why fix what ain't broken. Besides, more TIBA, less wages being paid, bigger savings at audit time, bigger bonus, everyones happy.
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Old 19th Dec 2007, 19:01
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Formula?

How many X TIBA = no AOC ?????
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Old 19th Dec 2007, 21:15
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How many X
I'm afraid Jacko, given the current scruples being applied by CASA "X" = a number you couldn't count to. For CASA to even threaten to remove the AOC would cause a huge ruckus. I wonder if ASA was an airline would we still be operating? Well if painted red and white probably.
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Old 19th Dec 2007, 22:55
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Realistically ASA knows that the Gov and CASA have no alternative and thats the problem with the monopoly, they have no competition.

No competition = No services + No concern for safety.

I can recall predicting this debacle about 5 months ago, we need to get rid of TFN. The root of all the problems.

BGTFN
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Old 20th Dec 2007, 07:08
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BGTFN,

I wonder if TFN is the problem or it is the middle "Yes Man" managers that feed him bull-pellets and direct that the underlings stand in it are the problem.

People like SDE/Group Managers.

These people have been told and told and told about staff problems for 2+ years and are only NOW recognising it?

Using Flightwatch as an example. 19 out of a staff of 100 marched out on redundancy and now they cannot staff the function.

Training as another example. They were slashed in half some years ago (and some sort of australia day award for the manager no less!!!) and then recently the go is that training is reverting to the previous structure because they cannot meet the workload - and doubling their staff!

Surely TFN does not get involved at this sort of level?

Oh, hang on, did someone say "pot plants" Damm....i just shot my own argument......ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
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Old 20th Dec 2007, 09:25
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CASA...Horse already bolted

Anyone heard the rumour that CASA wants the last of SDE stopped to reduce more TIBAs....a touch of conscience at last...no, if they were a real regulator they would have had the Game Show host and the Kiwi Scot on the coals..for even starting it.

Imagine all those unaccounted millions waiting for a proper audit to investigate..

Wonder if the business case took into account all those "lost" controller ratings into the negative...oh and still looking for the positives as any AsA present to staff could have been done without the changes...

How to completely stuff their core business in one big false spin...

Top three levels have got to go....

and most of the board as well...
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Old 20th Dec 2007, 09:40
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Have I got this right?

Consider two (2) controllers; each endorsed for HIGH and LOW sectors for differing geographical areas ruled by two ALMs

Take one off line and replace him and train him to do the HIGH sectors for the another area taking several months of Sim and OJTI and he then has to regain his original HIGH endorsement and of course loses his original LOW ticket.

Once he is back on the job:

Take the other controller off line and replace him and train him to do the LOW sectors for the another area taking several months of Sim and OJTI and he then has to regain his original LOW endorsement and of course loses his original HIGH ticket.

END RESULT after considerable training and replacement

-------Drum roll please------------

Two controllers each rated HIGH and LOW for differing geographical areas ruled by two ALMs

Which was what we started with ….

To quote Professor Julius Sumner Miller– “Why is it so?”
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Old 20th Dec 2007, 12:12
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Direct.no.speed

Here, here, sums it all up beautifuly in a few short sentences.

Bit of a shame really, it used to be a great organisation to work for unfortunately however thats no longer the case.

Its a matter of going into work and providing the best service you can with very limited resources, collecting the money and now for the first time concentrating on life away from the place.

Why would anyone want to be there on an ROD, not me!

ps

TFN is the worst micromanager of all time the pot plants are the tip of the iceberg from what I hear. He has his grubby fingers in everything, ALM's are but mere puppets the ones who will eventually get the bullet.
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Old 21st Dec 2007, 05:22
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There are about 6 ashtrays downstairs at YMML. Exorbitance! I'm sure there's a couple of bucks worth of scrap metal to be saved there! And the bog roll - I'm sure a few bucks could be saved if we went to that grease proof paper stuff. What on earth's wrong with these incompetents? Money to be saved everywhere!
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Old 21st Dec 2007, 07:05
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Devil Forgot one bit...

Slugfest,

Loved the succinct description of SDE!

You did forget to mention that the ATC now can work on a screen range so big they can barely monitor separation on it.

Also, the increases in coordination which help no end...

Blue
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Old 21st Dec 2007, 10:02
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Blue,

Was talking to someone the other day about the ranges used and he suggested that on certain combinations of airspace, the distance between tracks (without the tracks actually touching) was around 27nm. Possibly OCA included there, can't remember. Anyone working big procedural sectors getting ADSB able to advise the sort of distances they get?
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Old 21st Dec 2007, 16:34
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Perhaps it`s time to press the big red button marked EMERGENCY STOP when it comes to SDE?
The numbers have never been proven to stack up to close analysis, not that us mere mortals have ever seen them. Surely, if SDE is supposed to be soooo good then why not try to win the staff over and show us why it`s a good idea?
Meanwhile the airlines get more and more delays in en-route sectors due limited staff numbers. I heard 30nm trails southbound to YMML the other day prior to entering Melbourne airspace. Now thats efficiency!
Speaking of staff numbers there are rumours of many, many controllers from all locations and all experience levels are actively pursuing overseas options, Three gone from one group alone in Melbourne in a short period of time seems to be an indication the rumours have some credence.
No matter, we have a programme to recruit experienced controllers from overseas don`t we? Anybody have an accurate figure on how it`s progressing? If all else fails we could push a few more through the college perhaps? Do we have the staff available to increase the throughput at the college?
If any of our friends in the sky read this i`d say you aim`t seen nothin yet. The delays will get worse. You can expect more short notice delays/vectors etc, for no apparent reason. We`ll all try to deal with the situation as best we can but please understand the voice at the other end of the line is not supposed to have a life and be happy to come to work at the drop of a hat on his days off. We even receive calls to come to work when on leave these days. Just remember, controllers don`t have a life.
Can`t wait for the next 2% + 2 % etc. in the next CA. You think we`re pi##ed off now?
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Old 21st Dec 2007, 21:22
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Heard a rumour that you don't even need to pass an ATC course now to get OJT, anyone able to confirm?
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Old 21st Dec 2007, 21:58
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Only if you're an OS recruit; the same "milestone" where others have allegedly been terminated or extended in the past, is now worthy of green lighting to OJT.

Well what chance have they had?
Was the "rushed" course crap?
Is their experience substantially different to their new environment?
Was there a proper TNA done?

Apparently complete the course means just that, the rules don't say complete [b]and pass[b], well when it suits. What has CASA to say? Well ASA is a mature organisation; right?
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 06:10
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OS recruits

Just another rumour to add to the mix...

Of the 3 OS recruits sent to BN: 1 pass. Can anyone confirm???

I feel for these guys, the TNA seems to have been a bit optimistic given the significant differences in the way Oz operates to the rest of the world.

Blue
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Old 23rd Dec 2007, 09:13
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Roger Standby,
The old Ocean sector, now Upper Airspace East (UAS(E)), when incorporated with Cape High , will include airspace north of Nauru( that is north of the Equator) to the South of Tasmania then west of Darwin (approx 130 deg East) to east of Nauru ( 170 deg East )
To put it in perspective that is 1/9th of the world north to south and just under 1/8th east to west.
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