Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations

[surfside6]

Clarification

I am not an FAAA official but I do trust them to do their job.
I do not require notification every time one of them farts.
If it necessary for the membership to have input on a decision then by all means put out a news letter.
Until such a circumstance occurs I have plenty of other things that require my immediate attention....my family,the upcoming federal election,interest rate rises,refinancing of loans and the reduction of household debt to name but a few.
Some posters here have way too much time on their hands

[cartexchange]

defcon at least you have clarified that the FAAA has given away any chance of horizontal crew rest on the A330. Totally unacceptable wait till the rest of CC hear about this one!
you asked where they would put it! well we had it on the SP remember, and the tech crew crew have a huge bedroom on the A330, its could easily be placed on the aircraft just like the SP......best you do your homework.

surf side you claim to be interested more in interest rates and household debts, well these things will be insignificant, if MM continues to make the statements that he made in the Financial Review and we lose everything! you wont be able to pay off any of these things, why are to trying to downplay or excuse what was said to the Fin review, this was serious stuff and inexcusable........telling the general public and anyone in QF that we are already prepared to lose pay and conditions! and work longer hours that was in the last paragraph........

[RedTBar]

Surfside,you might call it clarification but I call it communication and it does not take much effort in real terms.

I do not require notification every time one of them farts.

Is that how you describe MM's quotes or interview with the Fin Review?

[surfside6]

Two Small Barking Dogs

How much will horizontal crew rest on the A330 cost?
Get real..the company is not about to allocate seats for crew rest and lose revenue.
Negotiate and prioritize.
I spend a lot of my time on the Airbus and I would rather they fix up the freezing galleys.
This EBA is about survival and growth.Lets retrieve some of our lost flying and particpate in the growth that is rapidly coming to this part of the world.
Horizontal crew rest on an A330 is way down the list of priorities.
Try and see the big picture and dont drown in issues that dont directly contribute to our continuation.
While you are at it dont reinterpret my words.The syntax is mine.The meaning is mine and its clear to all but those who require a remedial reading course

[speedbirdhouse]

AKL-LAX on the A330

My understanding is that the A330 will be operating this sector as a temporary stop gap measure due to capacity constraints.

The decision to allow the sector to be operated without the horizontal crew rest was made because of the alternate workforce have no such provision in their award for it.

Think about it long enough and the penny might just drop.

[RedTBar]

Speedbirdhouse,I can see your point but remember when we gave away a crew member because of a temporary problem.
Did we get that crew member back?
We give away something and we have buckley's chance of getting it back.Unless there is a concrete concession from the company on another matter or agreement that this is only a temporary ruling.To be honest even then I don't trust the company not to exploit this concession.
GD and the company could not lie straight in bed if they wanted to.

Surfside

Get real..the company is not about to allocate seats for crew rest and lose revenue.
Negotiate and prioritize.

Or do you mean concede instead of negotiate?

How many times have we given in to the company with the line from MM "If we don't we lose our jobs"

What have we got in return?
They give our flying to S/H,enlarge the bases in LHR,BKK & AKL with no care of the EBA limit and total impunity.
They tell us we will not fly the A380
They continually try to erode our conditions and Dixon tells the press we are the most militant union in QF.

Let's hope that when we finally get our new EBA we will not have given away everything we have now.

[speedbirdhouse]

Yes, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I imagine that the dispensation is of a temporary and route specific nature.

Your comments re the nature of QF management and dixon are of course irrefutable.

MM is of course driven by this understanding............

[cartexchange]

i think its about time MM resumes flying.
Its a refresher course he needs, he has obviously forgotten what its like after all its been 8 or so years in that bunker, no jet lag no night sectors no time zones to be crossed no IFE angry irate passengers to deal face to face and then having to go into the office and be presented with a bunch of KPI's

Surf side, are you serious, you would rather a warmer galley than horizontal crew rest!
that comment would go alongside twiggs's famous comment on this forum about "its the destination not the money" comment.
an absolutely absurd and insane comment!

[Guardian1]

Time To Settle Down.

It is always amusing to see hysterical and deliberately misleading comments posted in here by the usual suspects(Red T Bar and cartexchange), but it is also sad, because it either indicates a complete awareness of fact and regard for truth or alternatively indicates 2 individuals who deliberately attempt to mislead because they dislike the current competent leadership in the FAAA (namely MM and SR).
cartexchange asserts MM said the following in the Fin Review - "telling the general public and anyone in QF that we are already prepared to lose pay and conditions! and work longer hours that was in the last paragraph........ "
Cartexchange just demonstrates by that comment what a truly ignorant and limited individual he really is. At the FAAA meetings , which involved nearly a 1000 people , it was repeated several times at each of those 20 meetings that lower pay and increased hours were necessary to try and get work for Long Haul so that LH was not closed down. What was also repeated ad nauseum at the FAAA meetings,was that the FAAA would only agree to this for new starters, so that we could ATTEMPT TO get employment in LH, EMPLOYMENT THAT WILL NOT OTHERWISE MATERIALISE.
WHAT WAS ALSO CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD BY ALL THOSE 1000 PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED THE FAAA MEETINGS WAS THAT PAY, HOURS etc were going to be secured for existing crew, in the face of a probable Qantas onslaught.
It is a shame that only 2 individuals do not understand that concept, namely cartexchange and red t bar.
The reference in the FIN REVIEW is about new starters. Perhaps a remedial course in English and Comprehension would help cartexchange and red t bar to understand the Fin Review article. Alternatively, they might be able to buy a kids copy of the Gumby Bears and look at the pretty pictures, since obviously the Fin Review is way above their respective comprehension abilities.
It's heartening that the likes of SPEEDBIRDHOUSE, SURFSIDE6, EDEN , DEFCON4 etc actually reflect the vast majority of LH crew who actually understand issues.
In relation to the A330 it simply does not have horizontal crew rest and if the advice of cartexchange was followed and we rejected work, which others will gladly do, then the time of closure of LH and compulsory redundancy will be all that much more closer.
I suggest that people do not second guess MM or slur his very good reputation. It is a rare thing to have a person almost single handedly oppose EBA6 as he did in 2003, in order to protect our conditions. It was a shame more people did not heed him in 2003.
Lets wait and see what he delivers out of these negotiations before we slag off at him. The FAAA under him is the most effective, efficient and credible that it has ever been.
He is abley supported by Reed and Lam, both highly capable and competent.
Imagine if we had the likes of Broome, Brem, cartexchange and red t bar conducting these negotiations. What a pathetic joke that would be.

[Guardian1]

TYPO

My previous post in the first para , read as follows "It is always amusing to see hysterical and deliberately misleading comments posted in here by the usual suspects(Red T Bar and cartexchange), but it is also sad, because it either indicates a complete awareness of fact and regard for truth or alternatively indicates 2 individuals who deliberately attempt to mislead because they dislike the current competent leadership in the FAAA (namely MM and SR)."


"complete awareness" should read complete lack of awareness.

[stubby jumbo]

Thanks Steven( Guardian)..............I realise that the Negotiations are in full swing. In fact Guardian I understand that there was some very substantial progress made-today!

Agree , there is lots of emotion around, but hey, last time I checked we live in a democracy. At the end of the day we will all have a chance to vote on the outcome.

[funbags]

I sympathise with LH crew and what they will be up against in their EBA negotiations.

But the attitude - "it's only for the new joiners, it won't affect us, we'll be ok" is disturbing. I know there is already effectively a B,C, and D scale within long haul (with the AKL, LHR and BKK bases), but to hire full time Australian based crew on poorer conditions to protect current employees will only cause further problems down the track.

Good luck with it all!

[cartexchange]

eden, guardians and the pack!
well I like a 1000 other people attended the meetings and it was clear what was needed and agreed with the rest of the membership.
The Fin review article in the last few paragraphs did not reflect this view, we understood it to mean that MM had already conceded that existing LH crew would have to accept lower wages and longer hours! without even having started the negotiations!
Now regarding the horizontal crew rest 330, of course we know that it doesn't currently exist, but that is not to say that QF can put one in just like the SP.
I have done the AKL/LAX/AKL on the 747300 without horizontal rest and its horrendous, the fatigue factor is incredible. MM hasnt as he hasnt flown for 8 years!
So when will the FAAA put out a letter to the membership advising them of their decision not have the horizontal crew rest on this a/c!

[lowerlobe]

Funbags.....I understand what your saying but unfortunately for all crew there has been a precedent.

Those applying en masse for Cabin Crew with VB,J* domestic and international,MAM and now Tiger on conditions far below QF LH.

In fact I believe that the tech crew in S/H have had a 'B' pay scale for years for those that transferred from L/H.

You also had tech crew that have signed an agreement if they transfer to J* and those that went to AO also were paid less than they were with mainline.

To deny that is to deny your right to a future.I don't like it one bit as it only helps people like Darth but what can you do if there are crew happy to work under those conditions.Under the IR laws this is not isloated to avaiation jobs either.

As you said L/H already work with crew from various bases on conditions that are less than ideal.So what can the FAAA do about this fact?

In a word ....nothing because the flood gates have opened long ago.To suggest otherwise would be like expecting water to flow uphill.

Eden and Guardian, it's refreshing to see that in a world of constant evolution neither of you have changed.

Bravo, you played the union standover men as portrayed in the Liberal ads perfectly.

You responded as usual with sarcasm,infantile insults and arrogance.

There must have been a large number of crew that did not see the AFR on that day and would have heard rumours as crew normally do.

If you had the time to respond on PPrune then you had time to put out a one paragraph statement on the union website to allay any anxiety and put a stop to the rumour mill.

Nice one.....

[mrpaxing]

some more info

tiger is offering considerable more money then VB/J* and is close to QF SH.
they are swamped by applicants from J*/MAM/AKL base and others.
Guardian1 says"In relation to the A330 it simply does not have horizontal crew rest ". this is incorrect, there is a module available which can be permanantly fitted underneath. my concerns to a lesser degree are not for the 10 month or so the A330-200 flies between AKL-LAX but more for permanent long range sectors like SYD-BOM/ MEL-SHA and others to come. as mentioned the PRECEDENT has been set by the domestics but that does not mean we have to get along with it.if MM wants more regional flying back he has to consider these long term implications. when is the next election? faaa that is

[twiggs]

Originally Posted by cartexchange

So when will the FAAA put out a letter to the membership advising them of their decision not have the horizontal crew rest on this a/c!

Maybe if and when that decision is actually made, rather than speculated about on this forum which probably less than 10% of crew actually read.

[lowerlobe]

Maybe if and when that decision is actually made, rather than speculated about on this forum which probably less than 10% of crew actually read.

.............Uuuhhhhh... Hello.....Twiggs.....Hello.....Twiggs ......Isn't this supposed to be a rumour forum?

Do you know what speculate means?

Just in case I'll help you....

speculate |?speky??l?t| verb [ intrans. ] Form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence

[cartexchange]

twiggs they have made the decision, otherwise Guardian and Eden would be screaming like wild banshees if it wasn't true.
Good one lower, you hit it on the head when you compared the FAAA thugs to the liberal anti union ad, because that is exactly what they are, if you DARE have an idea or opinion that is different to them they will yell you down at union meetings or never return your calls if you call them.
MM must fly! he has forgotten what its like its been 8 long years!!!

[mrpaxing]

as if MM

wants to come back flying ever again. get real, he is far more into politics and unionism these days(which is not necessarily bad). however, the big picture is still to amalgamate with the domestics to avoid issues like the
A330-200 crew rest issues and others. if you just could set aside egos ......

[RedTBar]

Guardian tells us

The reference in the FIN REVIEW is about new starters. Perhaps a remedial course in English and Comprehension would help cartexchange and red t bar to understand the Fin Review article. Alternatively, they might be able to buy a kids copy of the Gumby Bears and look at the pretty pictures, since obviously the Fin Review is way above their respective comprehension abilities.

Your post apart from the attempt at derision would have been relevant IF I had seen the article.My point was that to stop rumours especially at a time when our eba is being negotiated is to communicate with the people you represent.How many crew like me would not have seen the paper and were wondering what was going on.Interviews or articles like that about us and l/h in particular come out about 2 or 3 times a year unless something special like a strike is on the cards.

We are all too painfully aware of how tough these negotiations will be but how about showing some leadership and communicate with us?