500 S/O's!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Why would any self respecting pilot choose to spend between 5 and 10 years of their career watching? It does not take that long to figure out less than 10 ports.
Sure the money is good, the conditions are great but the job sucks, yes SUCKS with a capital S.
I became a pilot to fly aeroplanes, not to be a clerical voyuer.
There are far more lucrative jobs out there if you want money, if you want to fly then don't pretend, get out there and do it. S/O is at best suitable for 20 year old cadets and min time GA pilots, at worst it is a parking lot for your career and your brain. Remember, most airlines do not recognise s/o time, nor is the endorsement valid for anything other than toilet paper.
p.s. Have been in QF over 5 years and still no chance of mainline F/O slot (finally getting close).
BTW, the 350 commands INCLUDE residuals, i.e. only 160 - 200 new commands.
Sure the money is good, the conditions are great but the job sucks, yes SUCKS with a capital S.
I became a pilot to fly aeroplanes, not to be a clerical voyuer.
There are far more lucrative jobs out there if you want money, if you want to fly then don't pretend, get out there and do it. S/O is at best suitable for 20 year old cadets and min time GA pilots, at worst it is a parking lot for your career and your brain. Remember, most airlines do not recognise s/o time, nor is the endorsement valid for anything other than toilet paper.
p.s. Have been in QF over 5 years and still no chance of mainline F/O slot (finally getting close).
BTW, the 350 commands INCLUDE residuals, i.e. only 160 - 200 new commands.
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TineeTim
WADR i susgest you reread the statement. Just cos you got a slot after 4 years doesn't mean that we did!!.. Mainline F/O slots have not past Seniority 1970 (Check bidbook) which means that there are guys well over 5 years who have not got a chance yet!!
Been in the company less than 8 years, been an F/O about 4 years. Plenty of guys junior to me around as well......
Skyscanner
What's wrong with wanting financial security? I did my QF interview 9 years ago now after 11 years of scrimping and scraping at the bottom of the GA / Regional pay barrel.
When asked directly why I wanted a job with QF my answer truthfully included the fact I would begin to achieve some real money.
money shouldn't be a consideration.. the QF selectors can see straight through you at the interview..
When asked directly why I wanted a job with QF my answer truthfully included the fact I would begin to achieve some real money.
Time from SO to FO seems partly pot luck, and partly desire. It took me 12 months at QF from SO to FO and there were 250 SO ahead of me who could of had my slot if they wanted, but they didn't. Why they didn't was not my concern. I can sympathise with guys who joined after me who have taken longer to get FO slots as the company is not expanding but they are not the first people to be stuck in that position and won't be the last. Every person has to make a decision based on what is best for them and just because there expansion when you apply doesnt mean SARS or something similar won't stop it the next day.
I think that things are looking positive, we still get paid to do a job we love, and if you dont love then why do it? There are new planes coming, and plans to shelve other planes have been delayed, therefor there will be more pilots needed. Pretty simple.
I think that things are looking positive, we still get paid to do a job we love, and if you dont love then why do it? There are new planes coming, and plans to shelve other planes have been delayed, therefor there will be more pilots needed. Pretty simple.
You are right engine out but the BIG point remains, If you have a choice, one must now think of it very hard as to the merits of QF vs the rest.
To put it in perspective, when I joined QF just over five years ago, mates went to VB, EK and Air Japan.
All have commands now. I still wait for an available mainline fo spot.
I know it's all about timing but the argument that it will return to the good old days of minimum time as an SO might not be true. The advent of Jetstar has, in the short term as a minimum, insured of this.
Also with respect to incoming aircraft orders, keep a good eye on the aircraft dlivery schedule on the qf intrenet and watch for some surprises in the very near future. (If it aint already changed there wrt 330s and 787!!!)
To put it in perspective, when I joined QF just over five years ago, mates went to VB, EK and Air Japan.
All have commands now. I still wait for an available mainline fo spot.
I know it's all about timing but the argument that it will return to the good old days of minimum time as an SO might not be true. The advent of Jetstar has, in the short term as a minimum, insured of this.
Also with respect to incoming aircraft orders, keep a good eye on the aircraft dlivery schedule on the qf intrenet and watch for some surprises in the very near future. (If it aint already changed there wrt 330s and 787!!!)
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Career planning
From some of the responses that I have read on this thread, it appears that some guys are taking a short term view to their career planning. To some the idea of spending a few years as a Second Officer in Qantas is unattractive when there are First Officer jobs available at DJ or JQ - even if they have to pay for their endorsement. This smacks of the "must have it all now" attitude attributed to Gen "Y". Sure getting a job with LCC's may reward you with a much shorter time to command but where do you go after that. Are the relatively large numbers of DJ captains leaving for the sandpit going purely because of the salary and T & C's or is there an element of "I've been a captain on the B737 for years and I'm sick of the "ground-hog day" domestic flying routine - I want to move on and fly a bigger (& technically more modern) aircraft like the B777".
By joining Qantas, there are many options for you to tailor your career to suit your own aims. After your stint as a S/O, taking a F/O position in Short Haul can be very rewarding with a large number of sectors with flying skills becoming honed. A number of guys are then happy to stay in short haul for the rest of their careers but the large majority end up tiring of the short slips, reduced social life whilst away and repetitive nature of SH flying so they elect to return to LH on larger aircraft. Similar choices are made when they elect for command training.
Generally, the pilots who start their airline career with LCC's have to move airlines (often overseas) to have variety throughout their career, whilst those who join Qantas will have many choices while remaining with the same employer and staying in OZ. Long term superannuation benefits are also a plus.
When the B787 is established in mainline, it will be the aircraft of choice for many as the flying will consist of a mixture of domestic, Tasman, Asian regional, long range and ultra long range flying with pilots bidding (something that some LCC's don't have) for the mix of flying that suits them. As it will be the aircraft type used to develop new international routes, the crews will have the opportunity to experience these new destinations with sufficient slip time. Most new routes start with only three flights per week so the slips will be really good.
For a lot of guys the ability to take family members away with them on trips is a perk that helps to keep some balance in their home life. It helps spouses to put up with extended periods without their partner, but is not a practical option in the SH/LCC type of flying. Qantas and AIPA introduced a number of years ago on the B744 a concept called "extended layover patterns". Basically, this involves flying the first half of a London pattern then taking a weeks leave (total of 10 days off) and then completing the rest of the pattern - very popular with spouses who can get the opportunity. Obviously, family demographics limit some participation but for those who can do it the opportunity is "priceless".
As those who know me can testify, I'm not a company man but I thought that it was worth putting some of my thoughts on this thread to provide balance for those who have to make a career decision in the near future.
All the best to those who are about to embark on an airline career. GB
By joining Qantas, there are many options for you to tailor your career to suit your own aims. After your stint as a S/O, taking a F/O position in Short Haul can be very rewarding with a large number of sectors with flying skills becoming honed. A number of guys are then happy to stay in short haul for the rest of their careers but the large majority end up tiring of the short slips, reduced social life whilst away and repetitive nature of SH flying so they elect to return to LH on larger aircraft. Similar choices are made when they elect for command training.
Generally, the pilots who start their airline career with LCC's have to move airlines (often overseas) to have variety throughout their career, whilst those who join Qantas will have many choices while remaining with the same employer and staying in OZ. Long term superannuation benefits are also a plus.
When the B787 is established in mainline, it will be the aircraft of choice for many as the flying will consist of a mixture of domestic, Tasman, Asian regional, long range and ultra long range flying with pilots bidding (something that some LCC's don't have) for the mix of flying that suits them. As it will be the aircraft type used to develop new international routes, the crews will have the opportunity to experience these new destinations with sufficient slip time. Most new routes start with only three flights per week so the slips will be really good.
For a lot of guys the ability to take family members away with them on trips is a perk that helps to keep some balance in their home life. It helps spouses to put up with extended periods without their partner, but is not a practical option in the SH/LCC type of flying. Qantas and AIPA introduced a number of years ago on the B744 a concept called "extended layover patterns". Basically, this involves flying the first half of a London pattern then taking a weeks leave (total of 10 days off) and then completing the rest of the pattern - very popular with spouses who can get the opportunity. Obviously, family demographics limit some participation but for those who can do it the opportunity is "priceless".
As those who know me can testify, I'm not a company man but I thought that it was worth putting some of my thoughts on this thread to provide balance for those who have to make a career decision in the near future.
All the best to those who are about to embark on an airline career. GB
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Great Post GB...
You didnt by chance give your sector to the S/O this morning did you?
No need to reply if you dont want to.....just trying to do some cunning detective work.
HD.
You didnt by chance give your sector to the S/O this morning did you?
No need to reply if you dont want to.....just trying to do some cunning detective work.
HD.
GB, thanks for the post. I agree with your sentiment, however, what I am trying to highlight to people out there is that the time required to achieve some of those goals (ie upgrades) is extending all the time. And in my view will continue to do so.
76 slots are out this arvo and the lowest? winning bidder is 1908. That means that FO slots on this fleet are now getting further than 6-7 years for some.
And this isn't by choice. It's ok if you sit on the 400 but for those who joined and found themselves on the classic/330/767 in these interim years their pay has been very adversely affected by the continual blanklines/reserve/etc.
All I say is please consider ladies and gents. And I don't believe this is a gen y thing.
76 slots are out this arvo and the lowest? winning bidder is 1908. That means that FO slots on this fleet are now getting further than 6-7 years for some.
And this isn't by choice. It's ok if you sit on the 400 but for those who joined and found themselves on the classic/330/767 in these interim years their pay has been very adversely affected by the continual blanklines/reserve/etc.
All I say is please consider ladies and gents. And I don't believe this is a gen y thing.
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Great Post, Going Boeing.
I do see your point. But I can't help saying that some of the recent practices/publicity from the people right at the top are turning people who would normally apply off all together. It's clear to outsiders that a reduction in T & C's are constantly on the agenda over there in QF land. On top of that, EK and CX fly you over and let you know fairly quickly if you're in or not. No cubes and no active hold for years on end. For many its been an easy decision.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I do see your point. But I can't help saying that some of the recent practices/publicity from the people right at the top are turning people who would normally apply off all together. It's clear to outsiders that a reduction in T & C's are constantly on the agenda over there in QF land. On top of that, EK and CX fly you over and let you know fairly quickly if you're in or not. No cubes and no active hold for years on end. For many its been an easy decision.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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It seems quite probable that the 73 will be much more junior to the 76 this time round. Personally I know of several 737 f/o's trying to get a 767 slot.
Have you seen the allocations HH?
Have you seen the allocations HH?
Nunc est bibendum
Rumours only.
Most junior command.......1198.
Those that know me will understand why!
Of course, given that I'm now a fully fledged member of the Chris Manning 'Glass half full' crowd, it could well be things may work out after all.
737 commands went to about mid 1100s.
I don't know anything about F/O slots....sorry lads and ladettes.
Congrats to those that get the nod.
Most junior command.......1198.
Those that know me will understand why!
Of course, given that I'm now a fully fledged member of the Chris Manning 'Glass half full' crowd, it could well be things may work out after all.
737 commands went to about mid 1100s.
I don't know anything about F/O slots....sorry lads and ladettes.
Congrats to those that get the nod.
Got a quick look at the slots at sign on yesterday before they were (apparently) taken away again?
Was in a bit of a hurry but did see a 737 F/O (don't know which base) slot go as low as 2010ish - that's approximately 5 years in the company.
Plenty of great guys leaving the -400 (F/Os and S/Os in particular) in the next 6-12 months but I'm sure there will be plenty of new recruits to take up the slack and help carve up the dancefloor at Insomnia!
TL
Was in a bit of a hurry but did see a 737 F/O (don't know which base) slot go as low as 2010ish - that's approximately 5 years in the company.
Plenty of great guys leaving the -400 (F/Os and S/Os in particular) in the next 6-12 months but I'm sure there will be plenty of new recruits to take up the slack and help carve up the dancefloor at Insomnia!
TL
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Hi
Can someone enlighten me, are we facing a shortage here for QF or do people think they will find the 10 to 15 pilots a month over the next 3 yrs that has been mentioned. Could it be a case that they will find the numbers for the next 12 to 18 months, but then it will be hard to find people with the min requirments.
Trying to gauge the situatuion, I have the 500 command hours, but haven't flown for a couple of years, but will be more than happy to get myself current over the next 6 months if the market (especially QF) is going to look at a 800 hour pilot with bush charter time?
Or do QF not look favourably on you if you are not in a current flying position?
Appreciate some positive reponses or help. Thanks
Can someone enlighten me, are we facing a shortage here for QF or do people think they will find the 10 to 15 pilots a month over the next 3 yrs that has been mentioned. Could it be a case that they will find the numbers for the next 12 to 18 months, but then it will be hard to find people with the min requirments.
Trying to gauge the situatuion, I have the 500 command hours, but haven't flown for a couple of years, but will be more than happy to get myself current over the next 6 months if the market (especially QF) is going to look at a 800 hour pilot with bush charter time?
Or do QF not look favourably on you if you are not in a current flying position?
Appreciate some positive reponses or help. Thanks
Gday oneday_soon,
I joined about 6 years ago and had not been employed as a pilot for almost a year on joining. However I had to convince them that I was still ok and hadnt given up on it. Basically getting a stage one was no problem, then had to field a couple of phone calls to let them know i still had the desire to fly. In addition I was in the sim at BK as much as I could be before the sim ride and interview. Now I did have age on my side but that was when they were hiring like it was no ones business...
Suggestion... get back into it! When it comes to your turn to jump through the hoops, make sureyou are fully prepared for it all, especially the sim and interview!
Cheers!
I joined about 6 years ago and had not been employed as a pilot for almost a year on joining. However I had to convince them that I was still ok and hadnt given up on it. Basically getting a stage one was no problem, then had to field a couple of phone calls to let them know i still had the desire to fly. In addition I was in the sim at BK as much as I could be before the sim ride and interview. Now I did have age on my side but that was when they were hiring like it was no ones business...
Suggestion... get back into it! When it comes to your turn to jump through the hoops, make sureyou are fully prepared for it all, especially the sim and interview!
Cheers!
Join Date: Dec 2002
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oneday soon, there isn't a better time for you to get back into it.
Getting a fying job be it parachute scenic charter or whatever will give you back confidence in the game.
A lot can happen in a short space of time. The first step is the hardest
Getting a fying job be it parachute scenic charter or whatever will give you back confidence in the game.
A lot can happen in a short space of time. The first step is the hardest
From the Australian:
The airline will be the first member of the Qantas Group to get the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner when deliveries start next year and will now get 15 of the 787-8 versions rather than the 12 originally flagged.
Just waiting now for the 'new' info to surface about the 330s.
The airline will be the first member of the Qantas Group to get the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner when deliveries start next year and will now get 15 of the 787-8 versions rather than the 12 originally flagged.
Just waiting now for the 'new' info to surface about the 330s.