Virgin Blue to place 7 firm orders for B777-300ER's & 6 options
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I am averaging 7-9 days off a month. Rosters abominable. Hotels scrape the bottom of the barrell. Average 10 days away from kids per month. Pollution intollerable, wife miserable. No time to get out of Hong Kong. Never get any requests. Never get any days off either side of leave. Min rest layovers every where we go. Crew contol are complete mutants. Management are advanced mutants. C of Service diminishing, no profit share, no morale, fear culture, racist CEO, absolute mountain of BS to go to the left seat. No pot of gold here mate.......I'm out, lots to follow...
Vb
Buzzy said
The initial cadre of Virgin Blue training captains were paid just 100K a year. Almost 50% less than the incumbants at QF & Ansett.
First Officers paid for their endorsement training and were initially paid 69K. These conditions were draconian compared to QF & AN F/O's.
These few short years ago, the pilots of the incumbants felt the Virgin Blue pilots were grasscutters and undermining the future of the aviation industry in Oz. A benchmark had been set and Virgin Blue pilots cheaply exposed a vulnerable professional pilot pysche ( or lack there of ). Jetstar was created as a consequence by Dixon from valuable lessons learned.
I wish the best for Virgin Blue crews. However, what goes around comes around, aviation karma etc- will probably take less than half a pilot's generation to play out.
What's the market rate for a 777 pilot in Oz? What a Virgin Blue pilot wants?
Or what a wealthy, type endorsed expat dictates? One who has accumulated taxation credits for use in OZ and puts a six figure value on the Australia lifestyle?
Welcome to the market you lot created!
Isn't it grand how pilots will see a "management angle" to justify cutting someone elses grass?
First Officers paid for their endorsement training and were initially paid 69K. These conditions were draconian compared to QF & AN F/O's.
These few short years ago, the pilots of the incumbants felt the Virgin Blue pilots were grasscutters and undermining the future of the aviation industry in Oz. A benchmark had been set and Virgin Blue pilots cheaply exposed a vulnerable professional pilot pysche ( or lack there of ). Jetstar was created as a consequence by Dixon from valuable lessons learned.
I wish the best for Virgin Blue crews. However, what goes around comes around, aviation karma etc- will probably take less than half a pilot's generation to play out.
What's the market rate for a 777 pilot in Oz? What a Virgin Blue pilot wants?
Or what a wealthy, type endorsed expat dictates? One who has accumulated taxation credits for use in OZ and puts a six figure value on the Australia lifestyle?
Welcome to the market you lot created!
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 21st Feb 2007 at 15:23.
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Capt Basil Brush
Thank you for responding so eloquently, nice title as well.
So please enlighten us all as to the difference between a VB pilot joining EK as a DEC on the B777, and an EK pilot joining VB as a DEC on the B777?
I know most people will say absolutely zero difference, but at least the EK pilot is type rated.
You appear to have made a some what hypocritical statement as I can see no record of an equivalent level of animosity towards your brethern when they went to EK, in fact you probably had a beer with them.
In other words, "pot calling kettle black".
With 'protected industrial action' (or whatever its called under Howards Gov) being mooted, and long-haul being a current VB EBA issue - the grass cutters will be known as SC@BS!!
I know most people will say absolutely zero difference, but at least the EK pilot is type rated.
You appear to have made a some what hypocritical statement as I can see no record of an equivalent level of animosity towards your brethern when they went to EK, in fact you probably had a beer with them.
In other words, "pot calling kettle black".
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Sorry Mr. Buzzy, I have to disagree with you as I remember the post well as The Enema Bandit got banned for life because of his response to your post supporting pilots paying for their endorsements. Unfortunately it would apperar that the post has been removed. May have had something to do with the banning perhaps?? 
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EBD,
if you are looking for a whipping boy, please go right ahead, (I quite like it) but I can assure you that I have never said we "should" pay for an endorsement. I mean why would anyone want to fork out 20k to work?
My points have always been very simple.
Australian employers (at present) can expect new hires to be endorsed.
There is no shortage of pilots waving dollars. (only need to see how many are still applying to QF for 100k cadetships)
Why would anyone not "compete"? (unless of course you are held to some opinion that the fairy godmother will note your strong moral fibre and grant you a jet job.)
This crap state of affairs will not change until it is either legislated against, the pilot shortage finally takes hold or pilots stand united "globally" and we all know that we can't unite ourselves so what hope do we have of that happening?
bbzbzbzbzbwhereubeenchris?zzzbzbzzzzzzz
if you are looking for a whipping boy, please go right ahead, (I quite like it) but I can assure you that I have never said we "should" pay for an endorsement. I mean why would anyone want to fork out 20k to work?
My points have always been very simple.
Australian employers (at present) can expect new hires to be endorsed.
There is no shortage of pilots waving dollars. (only need to see how many are still applying to QF for 100k cadetships)
Why would anyone not "compete"? (unless of course you are held to some opinion that the fairy godmother will note your strong moral fibre and grant you a jet job.)
This crap state of affairs will not change until it is either legislated against, the pilot shortage finally takes hold or pilots stand united "globally" and we all know that we can't unite ourselves so what hope do we have of that happening?
bbzbzbzbzbwhereubeenchris?zzzbzbzzzzzzz
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I know you like whippimg. Your wife told me. I definitely know you supported paying for endorsements because my son got banned from voicing his opinion on your opinion.
bbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz
bbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz
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Gdadenburg,
The "correct" rate of pay should be`somewhere between Qantas 744 and A330.!
Also look at SQ 777 pay for Brissie based crews!
Any less demeans the profession and continues the slide.
The "correct" rate of pay should be`somewhere between Qantas 744 and A330.!
Also look at SQ 777 pay for Brissie based crews!Any less demeans the profession and continues the slide.
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atiuta,
1. How many VB pilots have joined EK as direct entry Capts? I dont know of any. 99% of the VB pilots who went to EK were 737 FO's with no previous jet experience, and the 737 Capts I know of have all gone to EK as FO's.
2. If there are any, how many joined during an ongoing EBA battle? (which includes crewing the 777's)
3. There is NO animosity towards EK pilots at all, the VB pilots who went to EK went as FO's - not grasscutters. There is a big difference.
4. Come home if you like, I have heard J* will not be able to crew their 787's - and are very worried about it. The money on offer will probably be identical anyway.
Pot NOT calling the kettle black.
1. How many VB pilots have joined EK as direct entry Capts? I dont know of any. 99% of the VB pilots who went to EK were 737 FO's with no previous jet experience, and the 737 Capts I know of have all gone to EK as FO's.
2. If there are any, how many joined during an ongoing EBA battle? (which includes crewing the 777's)
3. There is NO animosity towards EK pilots at all, the VB pilots who went to EK went as FO's - not grasscutters. There is a big difference.
4. Come home if you like, I have heard J* will not be able to crew their 787's - and are very worried about it. The money on offer will probably be identical anyway.
Pot NOT calling the kettle black.
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EBD,
I am a wage earner just like the next bloke. I do not like giving money away and have never said that we "should"
Your son was banned for getting steamed up in a similar way to yourself.
I hate the concept of buying endorsements; however in OZ at present, buying an endorsement is just another hoop to jump in gaining employment, no different to psych. courses, prep courses, instrument rating renewals etc.
Don't do it and you dont meet the minimum requirements for application.
Supply/Demand... This has been done to death.
bbbbbbzzzzzzzzzbbbbz
I am a wage earner just like the next bloke. I do not like giving money away and have never said that we "should"
Your son was banned for getting steamed up in a similar way to yourself.
I hate the concept of buying endorsements; however in OZ at present, buying an endorsement is just another hoop to jump in gaining employment, no different to psych. courses, prep courses, instrument rating renewals etc.
Don't do it and you dont meet the minimum requirements for application.
Supply/Demand... This has been done to death.
bbbbbbzzzzzzzzzbbbbz
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Don't worry, I'm not getting steamed up, just pointing out an inconsitency.
How is that lovely wife of yours too?
bbbbbIpayforendorsementszzzzbbbbbbbzzzzzz
How is that lovely wife of yours too?
bbbbbIpayforendorsementszzzzbbbbbbbzzzzzz
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emb 190
Hi
Can anyone help a poor lost aussie LAME. I have embraer 190 type rating on my engineers licence. I am trying to find a good line maintenance contact to send my cv to so i can return home and work in the sunshine!
Any help or potential leads of contacts with line managers of VB would be ace!
e mail me any leads
thanks
a lost aussie in europe!
Can anyone help a poor lost aussie LAME. I have embraer 190 type rating on my engineers licence. I am trying to find a good line maintenance contact to send my cv to so i can return home and work in the sunshine!
Any help or potential leads of contacts with line managers of VB would be ace!
e mail me any leads
thanks
a lost aussie in europe!
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Basil
So, it would be OK for an EK pilot to take a J* job but not a VB one.
Pot STILL calling Kettle black.
Furthermore, your math indicates at least one VB Captain joining as an FO and by correlation, 99 VB FO's joining as EK FO's. 100+ ?? I don't think so.
Credibility chum, but I guess that just confirms the rest of your post.
Too be honest, I don't want your job but the wind up was worth it.
Gnadenburg is quite correct and I doubt you know all of the applicants that may have been here, not the sort of thing people advertise and DEC's are amongst them.
Pot STILL calling Kettle black.
Furthermore, your math indicates at least one VB Captain joining as an FO and by correlation, 99 VB FO's joining as EK FO's. 100+ ?? I don't think so.
Credibility chum, but I guess that just confirms the rest of your post.
Too be honest, I don't want your job but the wind up was worth it.
Gnadenburg is quite correct and I doubt you know all of the applicants that may have been here, not the sort of thing people advertise and DEC's are amongst them.
Last edited by atiuta; 22nd Feb 2007 at 07:25. Reason: To make an even better case.
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Actually atiuta, I saw your post before you edited it - and your case is still weak. Plus, you still have not answered any of my questions.
Comprehension is obviously not one of your stronger points is it?
From what I have heard (and I take it back if its not true, and you can stay where you are, or join as a FO) is that J* believe they will not be able to crew all their 787's when they arrive - ie EK pilots will not be taking anyone's job if they join J* in this case. Perhaps someone from J* could enlighten us with more of the facts - and whether or not they would welcome you guys with open arms like you expect VB pilots to?
The 99% figure I mentioned was a guess, it does not mean that 100+ VB pilots have gone to EK as you have alluded to. A % does not have to = 100 all the time. I think the numbers are actually close to 16 VB pilots (over the last couple of years) of which 3 were 737 Capts, and NONE as DEC. As to who else is being interviewed, you are correct I dont know who they are, or whether they are going for DEC.
You mention credibility ("chum" - that also says a bit more about yourself) I suggest you have a good long hard look at yourself, before you have a go at other peoples credibility. I am glad you dont want my job - and I definately dont want yours! That makes us even.
Oh, and one last thing, I dont get wound up. So bad luck on that one.
Comprehension is obviously not one of your stronger points is it?
From what I have heard (and I take it back if its not true, and you can stay where you are, or join as a FO) is that J* believe they will not be able to crew all their 787's when they arrive - ie EK pilots will not be taking anyone's job if they join J* in this case. Perhaps someone from J* could enlighten us with more of the facts - and whether or not they would welcome you guys with open arms like you expect VB pilots to?
The 99% figure I mentioned was a guess, it does not mean that 100+ VB pilots have gone to EK as you have alluded to. A % does not have to = 100 all the time. I think the numbers are actually close to 16 VB pilots (over the last couple of years) of which 3 were 737 Capts, and NONE as DEC. As to who else is being interviewed, you are correct I dont know who they are, or whether they are going for DEC.
You mention credibility ("chum" - that also says a bit more about yourself) I suggest you have a good long hard look at yourself, before you have a go at other peoples credibility. I am glad you dont want my job - and I definately dont want yours! That makes us even.
Oh, and one last thing, I dont get wound up. So bad luck on that one.
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A Fair Deal
All individual interests aside I trully hope the VB guys get themselves a decent pay deal on the 777. Does not matter who flies them as long as the conditions are decent.
The Jetstar international contract is slave labour at best( Minimum days off at home in OZ) and poor money in comparison to other airlines on the world stage.
Expect the usual managament sell on this one.
1.We can get EK guys to come back for x%less
2.Jetstar Int jets x%less
3.If you dont take x deal you guys will lose the jobs.
I really hope it is a good deal in the end for the guys and gals. Sadly I think it will end in another race to the bottom with management high fives all round.With so many groups with different agendas should be easy to play you all off against each other.VB 737 pay +5% at best to fly longhaul back of the clock. Be a good result with a pilot shortage on the horizon.
Hope I'm proved wrong.
The Jetstar international contract is slave labour at best( Minimum days off at home in OZ) and poor money in comparison to other airlines on the world stage.
Expect the usual managament sell on this one.
1.We can get EK guys to come back for x%less
2.Jetstar Int jets x%less
3.If you dont take x deal you guys will lose the jobs.
I really hope it is a good deal in the end for the guys and gals. Sadly I think it will end in another race to the bottom with management high fives all round.With so many groups with different agendas should be easy to play you all off against each other.VB 737 pay +5% at best to fly longhaul back of the clock. Be a good result with a pilot shortage on the horizon.
Hope I'm proved wrong.