Virgin Blue to place 7 firm orders for B777-300ER's & 6 options
If a bunch of Aussie expats come home and crew the operation, it has to be good for market pressures for pilots. EK especially, would face more crewing pressure, and CX too would face small but noticable attrition ( coupled with their current and predicted resignations ).
If Virgin Blue pilots get the gig. They are replaced by more guys willing to buy their endorsements and accept the soiled conditions of a low cost pilot. A status quo for market forces.
It would be better for market forces if the Virgin Blue pilots wallowed in the pig's pen they created and expatriates came home putting real wage pressures on conditions abroad.
However, smelling the fear amongst the VB pilots at the moment, I predict they will capitulate spectacularly. Boasting cliches such as they will take the endorsement and vote with their feet- and wait for it- then become Direct Entry Commanders at the likes of Emirates.
Australian pilots. Could you go any lower?
If Virgin Blue pilots get the gig. They are replaced by more guys willing to buy their endorsements and accept the soiled conditions of a low cost pilot. A status quo for market forces.
It would be better for market forces if the Virgin Blue pilots wallowed in the pig's pen they created and expatriates came home putting real wage pressures on conditions abroad.
However, smelling the fear amongst the VB pilots at the moment, I predict they will capitulate spectacularly. Boasting cliches such as they will take the endorsement and vote with their feet- and wait for it- then become Direct Entry Commanders at the likes of Emirates.
Australian pilots. Could you go any lower?
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Don't be surprised to see the EMB & 777 crewed by pilots on separate AWAs. The sabre rattling over the latest EBA negotiations has really pissed off VB management and they want to get the ball rolling with these new aircraft.
Good luck
Good luck
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Gnadenburg, how pathetic. Yet another ill concieved swipe by a less than informed expert. Are you an expat? If so I suggest you wallow in the country you chose to call home because you were more interested in the dollar than a life.... Enjoy the golden handcuffs 
Something about a pig's pen???
Something about a pig's pen???
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OPT/MAX hardly an "ill concieved swipe !!!"
Gnadenburg is spot on in his summation.
I think old Gnadenburg is having a whale of a time with "the golden handcuffs" and the financial rewards he enjoys being an expat
When the time is right the repatriation of experienced 777 aircrew from abroad with financial stability well and truly behind them will demonstrate to the VB pilot group how the big aviation wheel turns.
Gnadenburg is spot on in his summation.
I think old Gnadenburg is having a whale of a time with "the golden handcuffs" and the financial rewards he enjoys being an expat
When the time is right the repatriation of experienced 777 aircrew from abroad with financial stability well and truly behind them will demonstrate to the VB pilot group how the big aviation wheel turns.
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OPT/MAX
HOW DARE YOU take a swipe at pprune's self appointed expert on the global pilot employment market!
Gnadenburg's inspired insight into the mentality off ALL 560 VB pilots is nothing short of amazing. Lets just hope the expat's can come home and save us from ourselves because surely we know nothing about "raising the bar".
And don't anyone dare suggest his posts reflect his own pathetic fears for his expat plight and have nothing to do with "market forces".
HOW DARE YOU take a swipe at pprune's self appointed expert on the global pilot employment market!
Gnadenburg's inspired insight into the mentality off ALL 560 VB pilots is nothing short of amazing. Lets just hope the expat's can come home and save us from ourselves because surely we know nothing about "raising the bar".
And don't anyone dare suggest his posts reflect his own pathetic fears for his expat plight and have nothing to do with "market forces".
Last edited by Warped Wings; 23rd Feb 2007 at 01:45.
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My point being that expat's created they're situation, yet pine to come home(now it seems, at any cost). VB guys chose they're situation and now some whinge about it. Whats the difference?? We don't need a lecture from someone who at the end of the day stands on a soap box to tell everyone he is exact same selfish pr1ck that we all are!!
You guys want the 777, have it. Enjoy working for the newly formed company. I hope you don't expect to get treated like you are now though.... You'll see what I mean
You guys want the 777, have it. Enjoy working for the newly formed company. I hope you don't expect to get treated like you are now though.... You'll see what I mean
What you do for a living OPT/MAX, I wouldn't call living.
But I smell your fear and am happy to bet a vintage port on a capitulation of sorts, by your pilot group.
I stand by my comments it is better for pilot conditions that you wallow in the low cost conditions you created, and new Virgin Blue long haul positions are filled by pilots whose attrition affects an airline's bottom line! For example, if EK losted a swag of 777 pilots on top of it's current resignation rate, all of a sudden it is well back on the drag curve. And is training for attrition rather than expansion.
Good luck to Virgin Blue pilots though. I will take my hat off to you on this forum if you are men rather than mice.
But I smell your fear and am happy to bet a vintage port on a capitulation of sorts, by your pilot group.
I stand by my comments it is better for pilot conditions that you wallow in the low cost conditions you created, and new Virgin Blue long haul positions are filled by pilots whose attrition affects an airline's bottom line! For example, if EK losted a swag of 777 pilots on top of it's current resignation rate, all of a sudden it is well back on the drag curve. And is training for attrition rather than expansion.
Good luck to Virgin Blue pilots though. I will take my hat off to you on this forum if you are men rather than mice.
VB
G'day Chris Higgins,
It cost US $17.000 for a 777 type rating, let me know if you need the name of a school I can PM you....
I read that a lot of comments are on PAY, have you guys ever heard of "quality of life"?
Try to work and live in ****ty Asia or the sand pit!
It cost US $17.000 for a 777 type rating, let me know if you need the name of a school I can PM you....
I read that a lot of comments are on PAY, have you guys ever heard of "quality of life"?
Try to work and live in ****ty Asia or the sand pit!
Try to work and live in ****ty Asia or the sand pit!
Sorry 74, but "Quality of life" is directly linked to "Disposable Income".
Billionaires in Asia and the ME have a GREAT life, paupers in Australia don't!!
VB
Really Wizofoz? well you don't go to far in DXB with 19.000 Dihrams!
Sure Billionaires in Asia or in the ME have a great life, but how many of them are pilots?
Finally I'm sure there are much worse jobs in Oz than working for VB don't you agree?....... also it doesn't matter how much a company is willing to pay, it will never be enough, that's human nature!
Sure Billionaires in Asia or in the ME have a great life, but how many of them are pilots?
Finally I'm sure there are much worse jobs in Oz than working for VB don't you agree?....... also it doesn't matter how much a company is willing to pay, it will never be enough, that's human nature!
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Im amazed at the judgement some people make without knowing all the facts...I am not claiming I do so dont ask me to enlighten you all. Instead of hanging #@it on your fellow colleagues support them. I hear the 86 % of VB pilots are really standing there ground, who knows they may come out on top. Stay strong 86er's !
Left Seat says
Well it was a fact that Virgin Blue pilots undercut incumbant airline pilots in Oz by around 40%. It was beers and cheers at the Hamo for a few years- quick commands and stick it up the Ansett scabs and the Qantas skygods.
And now, on this thread, they are sreaming blue murder that highly qualified 777 drivers may come home and take "their" jobs.
They aren't my colleagues. I have never had a colleague pay for their training and undercut me by 40%.
But good luck to them improving their lot.
Big deal. They voted down an EBA.
Round two will have their predictable pilot psyche manipulated by a management that holds them in disdain. But understands their simple needs- shiny new 777's to uphold their professional ego, perceptions of professional worth & standing, all for little ( if any ) extra remuneration and conditions of service.
I'll put a bottle of port on it. As stated earlier.
Im amazed at the judgement some people make without knowing all the facts..
And now, on this thread, they are sreaming blue murder that highly qualified 777 drivers may come home and take "their" jobs.
Instead of hanging #@it on your fellow colleagues support them.
But good luck to them improving their lot.
I hear the 86 % of VB pilots are really standing there ground
Round two will have their predictable pilot psyche manipulated by a management that holds them in disdain. But understands their simple needs- shiny new 777's to uphold their professional ego, perceptions of professional worth & standing, all for little ( if any ) extra remuneration and conditions of service.
I'll put a bottle of port on it. As stated earlier.
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Gnadeburg,
Sounds like a sure bet to me to!!!!
I'll put a case of port on it.
The Virgin 777 deal will set a new low for longhaul ops.
Hope the egos can be put aside and prove me wrong.
Sounds like a sure bet to me to!!!!
I'll put a case of port on it.
The Virgin 777 deal will set a new low for longhaul ops.
Hope the egos can be put aside and prove me wrong.
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solidarity?
Well I dont get onto Ppune much but it doesnt take many times on it to realise that the reasons that Aviation is such a dreadful business is that the pilots seem to prefer to take shots at each other rather than the folks that have made their lives tough in the first place.(like the 9 board members of QF who unanimously accept a takeover as that is the best the Company will do !?)
7 years at EK and about a month at J* as a DEC training captain and I realised that what ever folks say about quality of life or living in the sand pit etc is cods. you have to make your own decisions - and that is exactly what will happen with this VB push across the Pacific. As per J* they will get DEC 777 guys without any problems - and in fact I cant see how VB plans to get easy approval for ETOPS over the PACOTS as easily as J* did given the only etops they have at the moment is transOZ. No maintenance Big brother etc, Use of the 4 eng jets from VA would have been much simpler to get it off the ground. And how long do they think it will take to get the 777's on line -most have already been bought in the production line for the next couple of years!
money ?? well after the recent announced pay rise at EK - and granted I am not everyone- means that the sand pit earns me in the hand over 250 000 AUD at the current exchange rate clear. So for any of the lads to come back for less than that plus taxto pay for the kiwi surfers on the dole at Bondi....they really do miss home and I understand why. but is Australia really that great? to live ..yes .. to work ..no way!
but build it and they will come !!
matty
7 years at EK and about a month at J* as a DEC training captain and I realised that what ever folks say about quality of life or living in the sand pit etc is cods. you have to make your own decisions - and that is exactly what will happen with this VB push across the Pacific. As per J* they will get DEC 777 guys without any problems - and in fact I cant see how VB plans to get easy approval for ETOPS over the PACOTS as easily as J* did given the only etops they have at the moment is transOZ. No maintenance Big brother etc, Use of the 4 eng jets from VA would have been much simpler to get it off the ground. And how long do they think it will take to get the 777's on line -most have already been bought in the production line for the next couple of years!
money ?? well after the recent announced pay rise at EK - and granted I am not everyone- means that the sand pit earns me in the hand over 250 000 AUD at the current exchange rate clear. So for any of the lads to come back for less than that plus taxto pay for the kiwi surfers on the dole at Bondi....they really do miss home and I understand why. but is Australia really that great? to live ..yes .. to work ..no way!
but build it and they will come !!
matty
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If financial gain is your holy grail..that's fine...Let's face it the Aviation industry is screwed and there's no point looking back with rose tinted goggles....Lifestyle should be the only factor.... can anyone lend me a fiver...
Last edited by hot tuna; 25th Feb 2007 at 06:00.