Qantas must break unions: Ryanair co-founder
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lowerlobe
...........that statement indicates to me you are losing ground rapidly in your debate with the sunfish.......whether you like it or not, the posts i have read from mr sunfish are spot on re economics and success in running a business...........just stick to debating stuff you know and don't resort to name calling.
After reading your posts apparently those limits do not include spelling and syntax,economics,basic understanding of psychology ,human nature and how to run a business.
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Quote from ...sorry I'm trying to stop laughing...Truth Seekers Int'nl...
"that statement indicates to me you are losing ground rapidly in your debate with the sunfish"....
Not from my side of the fence....
"that statement indicates to me you are losing ground rapidly in your debate with the sunfish"....
Not from my side of the fence....
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Hanoi
I suspect that Gilligan is a member of the Toorak Young Liberal party.As such he never answers a question that puts him on the spot and just reiterates the same propaganda ad nauseum....just like any politician
I suspect that Gilligan is a member of the Toorak Young Liberal party.As such he never answers a question that puts him on the spot and just reiterates the same propaganda ad nauseum....just like any politician
Ahhhhh! I wish i'd joined the Toorak Young Liberals! I only discovered the joys of political debate, handing out "how to Vote" cards in Brunswick and poll night parties much later in life. Those of you who have done it know what i mean.
No answers to questions since I can't get any answers to mine, specifically:
1. Why can Qantas make money when airlines around the world can't? Is it because of Qantas superlative management and staff or because they have a guaranteed chunk of capacity?
2. Why is competition good for every other sector of the Australian economy except air travel? (Those that dont buy Australian cars, tools, food and clothing need not answer - you have already disqualified yourself)
In other words children, "what makes you so special;"? The rest of the economy mixes it with international competitors and succeeds, even when we are stuck with an uncompetitive flag carrier (by your own managements admission) that is a drag on our businesses.
To put it another way, why do your potential new owners value the business t twice whata it is currently worth? Is it because you are a fat and happy monopoly?
No answers to questions since I can't get any answers to mine, specifically:
1. Why can Qantas make money when airlines around the world can't? Is it because of Qantas superlative management and staff or because they have a guaranteed chunk of capacity?
2. Why is competition good for every other sector of the Australian economy except air travel? (Those that dont buy Australian cars, tools, food and clothing need not answer - you have already disqualified yourself)
In other words children, "what makes you so special;"? The rest of the economy mixes it with international competitors and succeeds, even when we are stuck with an uncompetitive flag carrier (by your own managements admission) that is a drag on our businesses.
To put it another way, why do your potential new owners value the business t twice whata it is currently worth? Is it because you are a fat and happy monopoly?
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Sunfish,
The flaw in your argument, is that you believe that QF is subsidised outrageosly and is guaranteed a golden ride. That is not true.
Yes, owing to bilateral aviation agreemnets, QF has an advantage within AU, however that is no different to the national carriers of any other nation. Yes, aviation is a distorted market, however as has been said before, it is unlikely we can correct that. Having QF go down the toilet will not result in the riches and cheap travel you anticipate.
Your conspiracy theory is as valid as the one that states the US faked the Moon landing.
Sorry.
N
The flaw in your argument, is that you believe that QF is subsidised outrageosly and is guaranteed a golden ride. That is not true.
Yes, owing to bilateral aviation agreemnets, QF has an advantage within AU, however that is no different to the national carriers of any other nation. Yes, aviation is a distorted market, however as has been said before, it is unlikely we can correct that. Having QF go down the toilet will not result in the riches and cheap travel you anticipate.
Your conspiracy theory is as valid as the one that states the US faked the Moon landing.
Sorry.
N
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Oohh snappy comeback Mrs Sunfish...i mean Ms Twiggs...Is that the best you can do?
Remember it's the destinations that are important and not the money ...ehh Twiggs..
Now Gilligan how do you micturate in a strong wind and what type of thesaurus do you use?
Remember it's the destinations that are important and not the money ...ehh Twiggs..
Now Gilligan how do you micturate in a strong wind and what type of thesaurus do you use?
Nunc est bibendum
I may not hesitate in calling someone delusional if I think they are but I usually back that up with a logical argument and points that proves their delusions. You may think Sunfish is delusional lowerlobe but I haven't seen much from you in return to really put him in his place. I may disagree with Sunny's points and I don't think they're sound but this area is WAY out of my fields of expertise and I can't be bothered doing the research to put up an argument in return. Therefore I'm not engaging in the debate per se but for pure ability to land punches and 'add' to the discussion sunfish is leaving you for dust.
Winning an argument is only worth it when you do it on the merits of the arguments rather than resorting to name calling and inane statements that contribute nothing to the discussion at hand.
Winning an argument is only worth it when you do it on the merits of the arguments rather than resorting to name calling and inane statements that contribute nothing to the discussion at hand.
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I couldn't agree more with Keg. I find Sunfish's anti-Qantas bias more than a little boring, and I personally don't agree with a lot of his laissez-faire opinions, but not enough to get involved in an argument about them which would frankly be better held in a pub. Nothing is going to be achieved there either, but you can come to realise that other people aren't always 100% wrong.
If you're going to argue with Sunfish's economic points, do it with rational and educated views. I haven't visited this forum for a long time because almost every argument has historically finished up in a personal slanging match, and it appears nothing has changed.
I've just read this whole thread through and I'm afraid, lowerlobe, that though you may not like to admit it, you have contributed precisely nothing in terms of reasoned argument, and those with the ability to assess the discussion from a dispassionate point of view would have to agree.
A measure of your desperation was evident in your absurd opinion that because micturate is a verb there is no such word as micturating. You would do well to reassess your attitude to debate, firstly by staying away from subjects where you are clearly out of your depth, such as
(sic) and most importantly, by including some unemotional facts instead of repetitive personal abuse.
If you're going to argue with Sunfish's economic points, do it with rational and educated views. I haven't visited this forum for a long time because almost every argument has historically finished up in a personal slanging match, and it appears nothing has changed.
I've just read this whole thread through and I'm afraid, lowerlobe, that though you may not like to admit it, you have contributed precisely nothing in terms of reasoned argument, and those with the ability to assess the discussion from a dispassionate point of view would have to agree.
A measure of your desperation was evident in your absurd opinion that because micturate is a verb there is no such word as micturating. You would do well to reassess your attitude to debate, firstly by staying away from subjects where you are clearly out of your depth, such as
spelling and syntax,economics,basic understanding of psychology ,human nature and how to run a business.
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There are some people Binoculars and keg that wouldn't know if they lost a debate until they realised that everyone else has left the auditorium.
My point is that Sunfish aka Gilligan is a tosser and has not real point except that he hates QF .
His arguments are baseless and so deeply flawed that he can only reiterate them endlessly.
Gilligans point about free markets is like the argument that communism is the only true and fair political system.It looks great on paper but the reality as with a lot of things in life is a lot different.
With Communism everyone was equal,the country's wealth was shared and there was no favouritism.It was a truly great idea for everyone but.......
As with Gilligans flawed free market concept communism was also flawed.You had the elite milking everything for what it was worth,the working class lining up like lemmings for food and other basics of life.The party would lie through their teeth and what happened in the end ...it all went south .
Gilligan tells us that Qantas should go and that 30,000 people should lose their jobs for the benefit of the country.Folks remember how many people took their lives when Ansett went broke.
Even if we removed the governments protection of QF does anyone here actually think Singapore and indeed any other government would do the same.
Little Johnny has been harping on about a level playing field for years but it does not exist.
That is except inside his little head just like it is with Sunfish...it is a fantasy and just like the tooth fairy and Santa,most of us grow up and realise it is just a fairy tale.
Remember this is all about Sunfish's hatred and jelaousy of QF and all his other ideas are about as balanced as a 3 legged chair.
If Sunfish wants some credibility then he should stop making up words that don't exist as well as using foreign language with dubious translations and sounding like a tosser and telling us he is off ot the Yacht club...Which I admit have a lot of fun with to lighten up this joke of a theory of his.
If you don't have a sense of humour then don't read my post or comment on them.
I realise that Binoculars and keg are probably the only other 2 members of Bonnydoon yacht club and probably have an MBA or 2 each but how many people use the term micturate in everyday life ?
My point is that Sunfish aka Gilligan is a tosser and has not real point except that he hates QF .
His arguments are baseless and so deeply flawed that he can only reiterate them endlessly.
Gilligans point about free markets is like the argument that communism is the only true and fair political system.It looks great on paper but the reality as with a lot of things in life is a lot different.
With Communism everyone was equal,the country's wealth was shared and there was no favouritism.It was a truly great idea for everyone but.......
As with Gilligans flawed free market concept communism was also flawed.You had the elite milking everything for what it was worth,the working class lining up like lemmings for food and other basics of life.The party would lie through their teeth and what happened in the end ...it all went south .
Gilligan tells us that Qantas should go and that 30,000 people should lose their jobs for the benefit of the country.Folks remember how many people took their lives when Ansett went broke.
Even if we removed the governments protection of QF does anyone here actually think Singapore and indeed any other government would do the same.
Little Johnny has been harping on about a level playing field for years but it does not exist.
That is except inside his little head just like it is with Sunfish...it is a fantasy and just like the tooth fairy and Santa,most of us grow up and realise it is just a fairy tale.
Remember this is all about Sunfish's hatred and jelaousy of QF and all his other ideas are about as balanced as a 3 legged chair.
If Sunfish wants some credibility then he should stop making up words that don't exist as well as using foreign language with dubious translations and sounding like a tosser and telling us he is off ot the Yacht club...Which I admit have a lot of fun with to lighten up this joke of a theory of his.
If you don't have a sense of humour then don't read my post or comment on them.
I realise that Binoculars and keg are probably the only other 2 members of Bonnydoon yacht club and probably have an MBA or 2 each but how many people use the term micturate in everyday life ?
Last edited by lowerlobe; 2nd Feb 2007 at 22:02.
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Keg
Sunfish
If you are going to make this allegation that Qantas has reduced it's capacity at MEL by 500,000 seats per annum then why won't you back it up with facts.
Similarly,when asked to prove another allegation that Qantas is forcing traffic over SYD to the great detriment of tourism , investment and business travel,you refuse to give any facts to support this conspiracy theory . See post # 96 for some of my facts.
Qantas has made money because , among the 35,000 odd staff , there are some pretty capable and far-sighted managers , analysts and decision makers plus an element of luck e.g. Ansett falling over and cheap 737-800's/A330's , and the ability to redeploy International aircraft onto Domestic routes during the SARS episode to name some. Despite some of management's more unpalatable decisions there are still plenty of dedicated staff who take some pride in their work.
Qantas competes with some 38 other international airlines out of Australia , not a theory,Sunfish, as you claim but a fact , count them !. And Qantas does not control their capacity,if you think they do then give some meaningful examples.
Don't try to sidestep the issue , you made the allegations now back them up with some substance.
Be nice to beat him on the merits of his argument
No answers to questions
Similarly,when asked to prove another allegation that Qantas is forcing traffic over SYD to the great detriment of tourism , investment and business travel,you refuse to give any facts to support this conspiracy theory . See post # 96 for some of my facts.
Qantas has made money because , among the 35,000 odd staff , there are some pretty capable and far-sighted managers , analysts and decision makers plus an element of luck e.g. Ansett falling over and cheap 737-800's/A330's , and the ability to redeploy International aircraft onto Domestic routes during the SARS episode to name some. Despite some of management's more unpalatable decisions there are still plenty of dedicated staff who take some pride in their work.
Qantas competes with some 38 other international airlines out of Australia , not a theory,Sunfish, as you claim but a fact , count them !. And Qantas does not control their capacity,if you think they do then give some meaningful examples.
Don't try to sidestep the issue , you made the allegations now back them up with some substance.
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lowerlobe
................i get it you're a comedian,.............that's why you laugh so much..........sorry i thought you were being serious in this debate with sunfish 
..............and
....so you do admit Qantas is a protected species.
If you don't have a sense of humour then don't read my post or comment on them.
..............and
Even if we removed the governments protection of QF
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Truth seeker....I suggest if you really want the truth then you must enlighten yourself....OPEN your eyes....Do you really think that QF is the only airline in the world that has the benefit of protection from their country....
In the US for example if someone wants to buy a US airline the percentage of US ownership is much highter than OZ.
Yep that would be right no other country has any interest or protection in their airlines...
In the US for example if someone wants to buy a US airline the percentage of US ownership is much highter than OZ.
Yep that would be right no other country has any interest or protection in their airlines...
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Weak as water Sunfish , weak as water.
You made the allegations and , when challenged , refused to reply.
I would have thought that , as a much trumpeted MBA , you would have researched your subjects before posting.
At least now we should see an end to the Qantas SYD-centric conspiracy theory.
You made the allegations and , when challenged , refused to reply.
I would have thought that , as a much trumpeted MBA , you would have researched your subjects before posting.
At least now we should see an end to the Qantas SYD-centric conspiracy theory.
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Quote from lowerlobe
"After reading your posts apparently those limits do not include spelling and syntax,economics,basic understanding of psychology ,human nature and how to run a business."
Mr Pot, meet Mr Kettle; Mr Kettle: Mr Pot.
Do shake hands chaps. And lowerlobe, run off and practice your punctuation, there's a good fellow. The space comes AFTER the comma.
And why call someone a "tosser", unless you just want to prove you are no better yourself?
BTW, nothing wrong with the word "micturate". It's a word in the dictionary. Some even think it's the origin of the expression "Taking the Mickey". Get over it.
Least you can't say you don't come here and learn something from Sunfish. I know I always do.
"After reading your posts apparently those limits do not include spelling and syntax,economics,basic understanding of psychology ,human nature and how to run a business."
Mr Pot, meet Mr Kettle; Mr Kettle: Mr Pot.
Do shake hands chaps. And lowerlobe, run off and practice your punctuation, there's a good fellow. The space comes AFTER the comma.
And why call someone a "tosser", unless you just want to prove you are no better yourself?
BTW, nothing wrong with the word "micturate". It's a word in the dictionary. Some even think it's the origin of the expression "Taking the Mickey". Get over it.
Least you can't say you don't come here and learn something from Sunfish. I know I always do.
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Lowerlobe sounds like he'd be a lot of fun on a trip:
Always right, never wrong. Hateful, spiteful and vitriolic if he is, and is shown to be. Nasty little boy when someone doesn't agree with him. Unable to provide useful comment, but does excel in flaming others. Applies perfect, flawless logic at all times. Never apologizes. Convinced of his superiority.
Better get a new attitude if you're soon to be on the road, looking for a job.
I'm not convinced your 'ocker' humor will amuse your new employers in India...
Always right, never wrong. Hateful, spiteful and vitriolic if he is, and is shown to be. Nasty little boy when someone doesn't agree with him. Unable to provide useful comment, but does excel in flaming others. Applies perfect, flawless logic at all times. Never apologizes. Convinced of his superiority.
Better get a new attitude if you're soon to be on the road, looking for a job.
I'm not convinced your 'ocker' humor will amuse your new employers in India...