Qantas must break unions: Ryanair co-founder
Grandpa Aerotart
BTW if you think a society without an 'underclass' is possible then you are dreaming.
It is as much a cynical, political sound bite as 100% employment being attainable...both are impossible...there needs to be a safety net of course but not set so high that generation after generation in certain socio economic groups feel no need to contribute their labours to the betterment of society...because they can 'earn' more staying at home.
Edit for speedbirdhouse.
My friend do a search on my posting history...I am as violently anti modern corporate practices as anyone on the planet... I abhore Dixon and his ilk...but I choose to take a more realistic view of how society is capable of reacting to fix these feckwits. Rudd/Guilliard won't come meandering into office and wave a magic wand and all suddenly is sweatness and light.
It is as much a cynical, political sound bite as 100% employment being attainable...both are impossible...there needs to be a safety net of course but not set so high that generation after generation in certain socio economic groups feel no need to contribute their labours to the betterment of society...because they can 'earn' more staying at home.
Edit for speedbirdhouse.
My friend do a search on my posting history...I am as violently anti modern corporate practices as anyone on the planet... I abhore Dixon and his ilk...but I choose to take a more realistic view of how society is capable of reacting to fix these feckwits. Rudd/Guilliard won't come meandering into office and wave a magic wand and all suddenly is sweatness and light.
Grandpa Aerotart
BTW fella if you're going to quote me then QUOTE ME!!!
I have just been back through my posts twice and NOWHERE do I say
You need to read what I am writing...not what you think I am writing.
I have just been back through my posts twice and NOWHERE do I say
"you (I presumably) want more of this unfettered employer control".
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You're a bit hot under the collar there CC.....
You didn't make the quote, I did and I assume you want more of the kind of unfettered employer control as exercised by those great guys running tristar-
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...919323857.html
I travel quite a bit as well you know. Ever travelled on public transport in LA or walked around Union Square in SFO?
I'll take Tony Blairs UK vision of society over George Bush's any day as I have seen first hand the effects of $5.60 an hour minimum wages and NO health care for those who can't afford it.
As I said before. No thanks.
You can have howards "vision" for Australia.
I'll vote for an inclusive, fair, and to some degree at least egalitarian society without an underclass of working poor.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...919323857.html
I travel quite a bit as well you know. Ever travelled on public transport in LA or walked around Union Square in SFO?
I'll take Tony Blairs UK vision of society over George Bush's any day as I have seen first hand the effects of $5.60 an hour minimum wages and NO health care for those who can't afford it.
As I said before. No thanks.
You can have howards "vision" for Australia.
I'll vote for an inclusive, fair, and to some degree at least egalitarian society without an underclass of working poor.
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I think that politics is a little like the saying "the proof is in the pudding".A number of us will not vote for LJH and whether that is enough to rid us of him only time will tell.However if the "dream team" is voted in and will do any good only time will tell.
However ,I’m still trying to work out the logic that if 30,000 people lose their jobs then at least 30,000 jobs will be magically created.This is like some sort of science fiction/horror movie when someone is killed they get straight back up again and keep going as if in a nightmare or a cartoon.
It exists only in the minds of children and those that are delusional.I think Freud would have a field day with Gilligan and it is in all probability that Gilligan still believes in the Ptolemaic system of the universe and is most probably president of the Flat Earth Society in Melbourne.
As I have said before the social impact of that many people losing their jobs as seen when Ansett went under would be immense.This number of forced retrenchments could in smaller economies such as Singapore cause a recession and Gilligan thinks it would be a good thing.Sunshine you need professional help.
Sunfish if you are going to ”Micturate” then I suggest you face downwind especially if you are sailing.The rest of the people on the yacht would appreciate it.
However ,I’m still trying to work out the logic that if 30,000 people lose their jobs then at least 30,000 jobs will be magically created.This is like some sort of science fiction/horror movie when someone is killed they get straight back up again and keep going as if in a nightmare or a cartoon.
It exists only in the minds of children and those that are delusional.I think Freud would have a field day with Gilligan and it is in all probability that Gilligan still believes in the Ptolemaic system of the universe and is most probably president of the Flat Earth Society in Melbourne.
As I have said before the social impact of that many people losing their jobs as seen when Ansett went under would be immense.This number of forced retrenchments could in smaller economies such as Singapore cause a recession and Gilligan thinks it would be a good thing.Sunshine you need professional help.
Sunfish if you are going to ”Micturate” then I suggest you face downwind especially if you are sailing.The rest of the people on the yacht would appreciate it.
from Sunfish "I assume Lowerlobe, that you are far too young to remember what Australian cars were like two decades ago when the car companies hid behind a wall of 100% protection. they made the same claim about "going under' back then - we export cars now."
There is only TWO viable manufacturers at present (and let us not forget the massive capital injection that that the viable manufacturer had back in 1994 when its model range was uncompetative.
And tell the Tristar employees in Sydney (alledgedly supporting your viable exporters) that the free market is actually going to create opportunity for them - if they shift to China.
You are not the only one on here with an MBA, but you are expousing theories that have not stood the test of time. The modern research now indicates that the benefits of outsourcing are not being realised in the longer term - risk, loss of IP and non-inclusion are coming back to bite.
Trends in the home of the MBA (USA) are to bring things back in-house. The true market leaders are bringing their expertise BACK from India (by way of example) while others are stil beating a path to get in there.
One last point - you talk about creating opportunity when a business fails. That if QF somehow folded there would be new 'growth opportunities in tourism' because of increased activity from other carriers?
Ever been to Florida? A service based economy if ever there was one. The sad fact is that home ownership there is out of reach for over 85% of the inhabitants - they are on minimum wages servicing the theme parks and hotels.
You need to go back to Uni to learn about wealth distribution based on earning capacity. It does not matter if there are paddocks of cheap cars coming out of Korea instead of Australia - if we cannot afford them because our wages are that damm low, NO ONE wins.
Plainmaker
Plainmaker, lets take you analogy in reverse.
Yes, we could reverse history and we would then have an auto industry emplying 100,000 people - and the cars they produce would be half the quality and twice the price because we have removed competitive forces. (by the way, the Button plan reduced tariffs very slowly and also gave heaps of cash to the companies for retraining, relocation, redundancies etc - it was a slow gradual low impact process)
Alternatively we could go even farther with the time machine and eliminate the internal combustion engine. Then we could have millions of people farming the land (as we had), a thriving railway industry (that we had) and a thriving, if antiquated marine industry. Trouble is the remaining industries, saddled with the costs of these antiquated methods, couldn't compete internationally, and in addition our standard of living would be lower.
Don't you think that the jet age and cheap air travel cause job losses in the railway industry and the shipping industry? Of course they bloody did! But it must be obvious to blind freddy that the huge increase in travel and international trade as a result, more than offset the job losses!
Let me put it another way, lets say I invented a quantum teleporter that could instantly and safely beam passengers around the world to their destinations for only twenty cents a ride. Would you expect your job to be protected then?
Of course you wouldn't! You would have simply gone the way of the horse and buggy, alone and unmourned. Now these changes of opening the skies are incremental changes, not step changes that we just talked about, but if Qantas sits here, fat dumb and happy while the rest of the world competes amongst itself, then one day you really will be faced with a step change.
And by the way if you want an example of the anti competitive behaviour fostered by non free markets, look no further than the $200million class action Qantas copped this morning for rigging the airfreight market.
Yes, we could reverse history and we would then have an auto industry emplying 100,000 people - and the cars they produce would be half the quality and twice the price because we have removed competitive forces. (by the way, the Button plan reduced tariffs very slowly and also gave heaps of cash to the companies for retraining, relocation, redundancies etc - it was a slow gradual low impact process)
Alternatively we could go even farther with the time machine and eliminate the internal combustion engine. Then we could have millions of people farming the land (as we had), a thriving railway industry (that we had) and a thriving, if antiquated marine industry. Trouble is the remaining industries, saddled with the costs of these antiquated methods, couldn't compete internationally, and in addition our standard of living would be lower.
Don't you think that the jet age and cheap air travel cause job losses in the railway industry and the shipping industry? Of course they bloody did! But it must be obvious to blind freddy that the huge increase in travel and international trade as a result, more than offset the job losses!
Let me put it another way, lets say I invented a quantum teleporter that could instantly and safely beam passengers around the world to their destinations for only twenty cents a ride. Would you expect your job to be protected then?
Of course you wouldn't! You would have simply gone the way of the horse and buggy, alone and unmourned. Now these changes of opening the skies are incremental changes, not step changes that we just talked about, but if Qantas sits here, fat dumb and happy while the rest of the world competes amongst itself, then one day you really will be faced with a step change.
And by the way if you want an example of the anti competitive behaviour fostered by non free markets, look no further than the $200million class action Qantas copped this morning for rigging the airfreight market.
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Gilligan ...ever get the feeling that your the only one left on your team?
Look around and you'll see how much support you have.
Let me count those on your side...MMmmm I know there's one somewhere.
Look around and you'll see how much support you have.
Let me count those on your side...MMmmm I know there's one somewhere.
I don't expect support Lowerlobe. I'm merely trying to tell you something that you simply don't understand that has been part of Australian economic policy for about thirty years. Australia has been championing free markets around the world for that long.
P.S. Ever heard of the Cairns Group?
P.S. Ever heard of the Cairns Group?
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Ahhh Yes Sunfish... you have to admire the front of the man.
He's never actually been a professional pilot but has absolutely no qualm about coming into a professional pilots forum, spouting on about how the largest employer of professional pilots in this country should go down the gurgler because he can't get a direct flight to Herpes, Missouri from Melbourne.
We all know this a charade of course. The real reason for the bluster is that he blames QF for the demise of Ansett, but that would be a childish thing to say, so he covers it up with non-sensical propaganda direct from the rabid Mein Kampf boosters who infest our society these days!
It's quite funny when you think about it.
He's never actually been a professional pilot but has absolutely no qualm about coming into a professional pilots forum, spouting on about how the largest employer of professional pilots in this country should go down the gurgler because he can't get a direct flight to Herpes, Missouri from Melbourne.
We all know this a charade of course. The real reason for the bluster is that he blames QF for the demise of Ansett, but that would be a childish thing to say, so he covers it up with non-sensical propaganda direct from the rabid Mein Kampf boosters who infest our society these days!
It's quite funny when you think about it.
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EBD - Ha Ha, perfect!! 
, it's only early, so I kind of hope that is not the funniest thing I'll hear all day, but it probably will be!
Sunny, I can't see how losing 30,000 jobs would create more jobs. HOWEVER if those 30,000 picked up 2 hours work a fortnight cleaning the streets (Full time employed according to Kim Il John) a further 100,000 could fill in the other hours in the fortnight, that's over 100,000 people earning a minimum wage with no chance of bettering themselves.
I suppose that they should be thankful to have memories of when they were the lucky country and not the sold out country.
Sick leave is a privelege and not an entitlement.
A disposable minimum wage society of nobodies is an abuse not an advancement.
, it's only early, so I kind of hope that is not the funniest thing I'll hear all day, but it probably will be!Sunny, I can't see how losing 30,000 jobs would create more jobs. HOWEVER if those 30,000 picked up 2 hours work a fortnight cleaning the streets (Full time employed according to Kim Il John) a further 100,000 could fill in the other hours in the fortnight, that's over 100,000 people earning a minimum wage with no chance of bettering themselves.
I suppose that they should be thankful to have memories of when they were the lucky country and not the sold out country.
Sick leave is a privelege and not an entitlement.
A disposable minimum wage society of nobodies is an abuse not an advancement.
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Fliegenmong.....hope this helps.
Last Tuesday's Post-Courier ( PNG national daily newspaper ) featured a front page news item about two local fishermen who had caught a large sunfish.
It said that the sunfish is also known locally as the headfish because it has virtually no tail . the fishermen said "a sunfish is just a big head".
Last Tuesday's Post-Courier ( PNG national daily newspaper ) featured a front page news item about two local fishermen who had caught a large sunfish.
It said that the sunfish is also known locally as the headfish because it has virtually no tail . the fishermen said "a sunfish is just a big head".
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Hanoi,
The interesting thing is that as soon as you have caught a sunfish(fish with big head) then at least one other sunfish is magically created.
This is known as the "BIG HEAD THEORY" and the PNG fisherman is not only a member of the local Yacht club but also has an MBA.In fact he caught the sunfish as he was out on a regatta.The wind had dropped and he decided to micturate and afterwards realised he was a bit hungry so he dropped a line over the side.
The next thing he realised was that he caught a sunfish but thats ok as they are never endangered as they reappear as fast as you catch them.He told the rest of the crew that this only happens in a free market ocean rather than the protected oceans of Australia.Ahh he said if only the white fellas in Australia realised what they were missing out on.
The interesting thing is that as soon as you have caught a sunfish(fish with big head) then at least one other sunfish is magically created.
This is known as the "BIG HEAD THEORY" and the PNG fisherman is not only a member of the local Yacht club but also has an MBA.In fact he caught the sunfish as he was out on a regatta.The wind had dropped and he decided to micturate and afterwards realised he was a bit hungry so he dropped a line over the side.
The next thing he realised was that he caught a sunfish but thats ok as they are never endangered as they reappear as fast as you catch them.He told the rest of the crew that this only happens in a free market ocean rather than the protected oceans of Australia.Ahh he said if only the white fellas in Australia realised what they were missing out on.
I love listening to Professional pilots discussing economics and competition policy, do you hear me prattling on about SIDS and STARS and all that stuff? Nope, I know my limits.
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Quote from Gilligan.. "I know my limits"
After reading your posts apparently those limits do not include spelling and syntax,economics,basic understanding of psychology ,human nature and how to run a business.
After reading your posts apparently those limits do not include spelling and syntax,economics,basic understanding of psychology ,human nature and how to run a business.
Nunc est bibendum
Sunfish has been spot on in many of his business assessments. In many things to do with QF he's been very good at summing up the state of affairs. I think he's wrong (very, very wrong) on the issue of QF falling over and the benefits but that doesn't excuse the personal attacks based upon his handle.
Be nice to beat him on the merits of his argument rather than resorting to anything else.
Be nice to beat him on the merits of his argument rather than resorting to anything else.