QL to QF's new recruitment process
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Surely most people can see this for what it is; a lead into cadets entering qlink, and another half baked attempt at dangling a non existant carrot o try and retain existing crew.
Qlink management are finally getting concerned at the number of crew leaving, and more importantly the lack of qualified crew to replace them. So their solution: offer a crap deal that amounts to them basically saying
"we'll print out the application form for you, from there you're on your own", and trying to sell it as a great deal. Anyone who sticks around on the basis of this "agreement", has their head buried so far in the sand, they're ripe for a management slot.
The proof will be in the pudding I suppose, we'll wait and see how many prosper from this deal. Though given it's into the only airline in the region(not even the country) that isn't currently expanding at the moment, i expect we'll see some people turning blue from holding their breath!
Qlink management are finally getting concerned at the number of crew leaving, and more importantly the lack of qualified crew to replace them. So their solution: offer a crap deal that amounts to them basically saying
"we'll print out the application form for you, from there you're on your own", and trying to sell it as a great deal. Anyone who sticks around on the basis of this "agreement", has their head buried so far in the sand, they're ripe for a management slot.
The proof will be in the pudding I suppose, we'll wait and see how many prosper from this deal. Though given it's into the only airline in the region(not even the country) that isn't currently expanding at the moment, i expect we'll see some people turning blue from holding their breath!
AustralianMade
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There goes the QANTAS Cadet program then.
Why take a cadetship when you'll have to slave away for years at QL, then apply to go to the bottom of the ladder in QF.
Wont most people choose to stay out of the cadet show and do GA until they're ready to apply?
Why take a cadetship when you'll have to slave away for years at QL, then apply to go to the bottom of the ladder in QF.
Wont most people choose to stay out of the cadet show and do GA until they're ready to apply?
Last edited by ABX; 19th Jan 2007 at 14:09.
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Well said ABX. Doing your time in GA is definately the best thing for a novice pilot. Learning to operate in the real world without the safety blanket of a more experienced captain holding your hand is like money in the bank.
You can always tell a cadet. Even if they have been around for a few years. Able to quote regs and certain paragraphs of the ops manual. But when it comes to flying a circling approach at the MDA in the crap at night into a ****e little strip with nothing but an NDB, forget it!!. You will here " jesus they didnt show us that at the academy".
There is nothing like flying in the middle of nowhere BY YOUR SELF to make a pilot grow up!!!
Go west young pilots!!
Cheers DM
You can always tell a cadet. Even if they have been around for a few years. Able to quote regs and certain paragraphs of the ops manual. But when it comes to flying a circling approach at the MDA in the crap at night into a ****e little strip with nothing but an NDB, forget it!!. You will here " jesus they didnt show us that at the academy".
There is nothing like flying in the middle of nowhere BY YOUR SELF to make a pilot grow up!!!
Go west young pilots!!
Cheers DM
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Apparently they start in two months and will be with Qantaslink for two years. The announcement was made yesterday via a letter
No wonder the guys are jumping ship..............
No wonder the guys are jumping ship..............
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Well said ABX. Doing your time in GA is definately the best thing for a novice pilot. Learning to operate in the real world without the safety blanket of a more experienced captain holding your hand is like money in the bank.
You can always tell a cadet. Even if they have been around for a few years. Able to quote regs and certain paragraphs of the ops manual. But when it comes to flying a circling approach at the MDA in the crap at night into a ****e little strip with nothing but an NDB, forget it!!. You will here " jesus they didnt show us that at the academy".
There is nothing like flying in the middle of nowhere BY YOUR SELF to make a pilot grow up!!!
Go west young pilots!!
Cheers DM
You can always tell a cadet. Even if they have been around for a few years. Able to quote regs and certain paragraphs of the ops manual. But when it comes to flying a circling approach at the MDA in the crap at night into a ****e little strip with nothing but an NDB, forget it!!. You will here " jesus they didnt show us that at the academy".
There is nothing like flying in the middle of nowhere BY YOUR SELF to make a pilot grow up!!!
Go west young pilots!!
Cheers DM
I wouldn't liken flying a chieftan to a 767. If you really ever flew with QF cadets DM, I think you'd be a little less bitter, and a little more educated.
But this is one of the most stupid statements I have read. The decision making ethos and command qualities attained from buzzing around in a chieftain are exactly like the decision making making and command qualities required to fly any other aircraft. The Size makes no difference buddy.
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Pod Break. To answer you question. Yes I have been involved in c&t both here and overseas. In no way have I stated that cadets are bad multi crew operators. Your view that they are "extemely proficient" is correct when all is going to script. Much ike some Asian operators o/s. If its on the green/pink line all is ok.The troubles usually begin when the work load increases. As most older operators know,sometimes to function as a "proficient " multi crew working as an unsupervised individual is required.Of course once the job is done then coming back together as a crew will always be needed. No matter what they drum into you, you just cant buy eperience or put an old head on young shoulders.
One of the common problems that line captains face with cadets is the increased workload associated with a inexperienced F/O. Obviously you dont need to be a cadet to fall into this catagory. The other problem associated with cadets is that they are taking up a seat in an airliner that JOE BLOGS has been busting a gut to get to. Doing the hard yards somewhere in AUS or O/S. For me there is nothing better than seeing the look on a pilots face when he checks out on a jet after years of trying hard in GA. It makes it worth while.
To illustrate my point Id remind you of the Perth 767 incident.
Im out of heres point is a valid one. Eastern is an Airline. Not a cresh!!
They are going to have their work cut out for them!!
Remember if all else fails look out side!!
Cheers DM
One of the common problems that line captains face with cadets is the increased workload associated with a inexperienced F/O. Obviously you dont need to be a cadet to fall into this catagory. The other problem associated with cadets is that they are taking up a seat in an airliner that JOE BLOGS has been busting a gut to get to. Doing the hard yards somewhere in AUS or O/S. For me there is nothing better than seeing the look on a pilots face when he checks out on a jet after years of trying hard in GA. It makes it worth while.
To illustrate my point Id remind you of the Perth 767 incident.
Im out of heres point is a valid one. Eastern is an Airline. Not a cresh!!
They are going to have their work cut out for them!!
Remember if all else fails look out side!!
Cheers DM
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The offer is not career progression. Anyone who believes so is a fool. You still have to jump the hoops but if yer lucky you might get an exemption in ONE stage. If FT9's are so valuable why then do they STILL have to do a sim ride? You still have to compete with outsiders and if QL doesn't want you to go you're stuffed. Most people see it for what it really is. If something smells like a turd it usually is. And no amount of polish can make it shiny.
The cadets will already have their seniority number and career path mapped out before they join QL. QL is but a stepping stone through the group to the job they were hired for. Prospective QL-QF pilots will still be discriminated against by the boss, just as he did with the so-called Jetsar LOA. FO's are easy to replace. They pay for training.Anecdotal evidence is over 80% of captains are lookin for an out. Once QL lose their experienced blokes maybe they'll realise they can't control our lives.
Right on Baxter
Borghetti said there will never be a group opportunity list because its TOO EXPENSIVE. Does anyone honestly believe QL will let many go? In the end, you'll all be "uncompetitive".
Bring on the real career progression: Virgin Bush, Skywest, Dragonair, Cathay, HK Express etc. They want you.
Qantas doesn't.
The cadets will already have their seniority number and career path mapped out before they join QL. QL is but a stepping stone through the group to the job they were hired for. Prospective QL-QF pilots will still be discriminated against by the boss, just as he did with the so-called Jetsar LOA. FO's are easy to replace. They pay for training.Anecdotal evidence is over 80% of captains are lookin for an out. Once QL lose their experienced blokes maybe they'll realise they can't control our lives.
Right on Baxter
Borghetti said there will never be a group opportunity list because its TOO EXPENSIVE. Does anyone honestly believe QL will let many go? In the end, you'll all be "uncompetitive".
Bring on the real career progression: Virgin Bush, Skywest, Dragonair, Cathay, HK Express etc. They want you.
Qantas doesn't.
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Apparently Qantas cadets have a Qantas Mainline seniority and when their time is up in Qantaslink they just slide across to Mainline with their already accumulated years of service where as the Qantaslink pilot has to resign give up the years of seniority and start at the bottom... in effect the captain who trained the cadet could be come junior to him/her if he was selected... interesting concept, it should really encourage the Qantaslink pilots to do an outstanding job training the cadits...
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I don't want to get into this stupid debate about which avenue of training is better.
But this is one of the most stupid statements I have read. The decision making ethos and command qualities attained from buzzing around in a chieftain are exactly like the decision making making and command qualities required to fly any other aircraft. The Size makes no difference buddy.
But this is one of the most stupid statements I have read. The decision making ethos and command qualities attained from buzzing around in a chieftain are exactly like the decision making making and command qualities required to fly any other aircraft. The Size makes no difference buddy.
Last edited by podbreak; 21st Jan 2007 at 00:03. Reason: swearing
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Pod Break. To answer you question. Yes I have been involved in c&t both here and overseas. In no way have I stated that cadets are bad multi crew operators. Your view that they are "extemely proficient" is correct when all is going to script. Much ike some Asian operators o/s. If its on the green/pink line all is ok.The troubles usually begin when the work load increases. As most older operators know,sometimes to function as a "proficient " multi crew working as an unsupervised individual is required.Of course once the job is done then coming back together as a crew will always be needed. No matter what they drum into you, you just cant buy eperience or put an old head on young shoulders.
One of the common problems that line captains face with cadets is the increased workload associated with a inexperienced F/O. Obviously you dont need to be a cadet to fall into this catagory. The other problem associated with cadets is that they are taking up a seat in an airliner that JOE BLOGS has been busting a gut to get to. Doing the hard yards somewhere in AUS or O/S. For me there is nothing better than seeing the look on a pilots face when he checks out on a jet after years of trying hard in GA. It makes it worth while.
To illustrate my point Id remind you of the Perth 767 incident.
Im out of heres point is a valid one. Eastern is an Airline. Not a cresh!!
They are going to have their work cut out for them!!
Remember if all else fails look out side!!
Cheers DM
One of the common problems that line captains face with cadets is the increased workload associated with a inexperienced F/O. Obviously you dont need to be a cadet to fall into this catagory. The other problem associated with cadets is that they are taking up a seat in an airliner that JOE BLOGS has been busting a gut to get to. Doing the hard yards somewhere in AUS or O/S. For me there is nothing better than seeing the look on a pilots face when he checks out on a jet after years of trying hard in GA. It makes it worth while.
To illustrate my point Id remind you of the Perth 767 incident.
Im out of heres point is a valid one. Eastern is an Airline. Not a cresh!!
They are going to have their work cut out for them!!
Remember if all else fails look out side!!
Cheers DM
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Ive got to hand it to you PodBreak. Your very good at quoting other posts. Thats be side the point though. I reckon if you took a poll of experienced and probably less experienced captains they would mostly say the same thing. An experienced and seasoned F/O is basically a captain in waiting. Capable, efficient and trustworthy.
At some stage the graphs will cross over and your cadet will become the above. But until they do, they are carried. Its as simple as that. If QF cadets are some how able to jam 35 years of flying into their 20 year old heads then thats great!! Im yet to see it. Some of the petulant posts that weve seen on this thread really make me yearn for the old days when cricketers wore white, summers were hot, boys and girls kissed each other and not the same sex and pilots flew aeroplanes and actually got on!!. Remember the Bushies!!!
My trip around this fine country is only 18 months Away!!! Im busy logging ICUS on the Jaico!!!
Fly safe DM.
At some stage the graphs will cross over and your cadet will become the above. But until they do, they are carried. Its as simple as that. If QF cadets are some how able to jam 35 years of flying into their 20 year old heads then thats great!! Im yet to see it. Some of the petulant posts that weve seen on this thread really make me yearn for the old days when cricketers wore white, summers were hot, boys and girls kissed each other and not the same sex and pilots flew aeroplanes and actually got on!!. Remember the Bushies!!!
My trip around this fine country is only 18 months Away!!! Im busy logging ICUS on the Jaico!!!
Fly safe DM.
Nunc est bibendum
Strewth. I must have a bit to go. I was carried about August last year in Singapore. I'm not sure how they got me in the cab. I still don't remember getting to my room. I do remember the head ache the next day. Last time I go drinking with THAT skipper.
(You know I love ya JP!).
(You know I love ya JP!).
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Without getting into how good or bad the Cadets are, but if QF and QL think its ok for a 200 hours F/O to fly the dash with upto 72 pax.
Why not just let them be a F/O on the 737 or S/O on the 747? Or are they thinking that wouldn't be safe?
Why not just let them be a F/O on the 737 or S/O on the 747? Or are they thinking that wouldn't be safe?
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I have a rather philosophical view of this..neither for or against cadets, but if they put 200 hour guys and gals in the right seat of 73's, A320's etc in Europe and we don't see huge numbers of them crashing...well, the argument is really a moot point.
The only thing I will say is that some cadets need to be a little more humble.........
The only thing I will say is that some cadets need to be a little more humble.........