Jetstar to spread like contagious disease....... :)
Nunc est bibendum
) today may well be the same GA driver who signs on for a bond and $60K in 12 months time. It only works if all GA drivers value their own worth though. 
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Phuket?
Bangkok?
Osaka?
Ho Chi Min?
Honolulu?
Perhaps you are meaning Australian Airlines operated services, now operated by Jetstar Asia?
These are the FACTS.
There is no doubt that the wages paid to pilots in Jetstar are below Qantas, however, are Jetstar Pilots earning less than Virgin Blue pilots? So why the vitriol solely directed at Jetstar?
Like many other readers of this forum, I am getting tired of the myopic view held by some when it comes to Jetstar. That unmentionable year has been replaced by Jetstar in Pprune as a topic seemingly incapable of attracting rational discussion.
Yet, sure as hell, if Dixon were to announce tomorrow that QF pilots were to operate the JQ International services, (on current JQ terms and Conditions) that would be fine.
If not, then Dutchy and his mates better let Woods know that he is wasting his time. 
Oh, and one more thing, if we are seriously suggesting that GA pilots should boycott Jetstar in order to prop up Qantas pilots terms and conditions? If so, then why not Virgin Blue as well? After all, it was Virgin Blue pilots who started the rot, Jetstar was merely a reaction. Then what about National Jet? Or Alliance?
Given that Qantas management appears to be a massively pro - Jetstar , I would have thought we should be trying to engage the Jetstar pilot group?
The current strategy of hurling insults from the sideline only serves to foster division and drive them closer to management
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Here's a great idea,
How about any Qantas pilot who feels it necessary to advise some bloke flying a 310 in the Territory that they will "be making a better long term decision about (their) careers by rejecting Jetstar now, staying another 12-18 months in GA", tenders their resignation immediately and allows the GA bloke to take their QF position.
That way they can show all the other GA pilots just how "valuable" they really are (OMG, a former Qantas pilot is in town!) and also the GA pilot can have the only job he or she may be allowed to accept under your narrow, utopian view of the world.
There's an old saying out there, gentlemen - "Fight your own battles". Asking GA pilots to refuse employment with any airline is a little bit too much like what Cathay pilots did to their "colleagues" after the 49ers dispute.
The world won't go out of its way to protect you or (like you give a stuff) "the industry". You have to do that all on your own.
As longjohn quite correctly said, you "should be trying to engage the Jetstar pilot group" - we are more than amenable to it but by virtue of numbers aren't able to instigate an effective campaign - there are 2500 of you and 300 of us. What's worse - our existence or your inaction?
How about any Qantas pilot who feels it necessary to advise some bloke flying a 310 in the Territory that they will "be making a better long term decision about (their) careers by rejecting Jetstar now, staying another 12-18 months in GA", tenders their resignation immediately and allows the GA bloke to take their QF position.
That way they can show all the other GA pilots just how "valuable" they really are (OMG, a former Qantas pilot is in town!) and also the GA pilot can have the only job he or she may be allowed to accept under your narrow, utopian view of the world.
There's an old saying out there, gentlemen - "Fight your own battles". Asking GA pilots to refuse employment with any airline is a little bit too much like what Cathay pilots did to their "colleagues" after the 49ers dispute.
The world won't go out of its way to protect you or (like you give a stuff) "the industry". You have to do that all on your own.
As longjohn quite correctly said, you "should be trying to engage the Jetstar pilot group" - we are more than amenable to it but by virtue of numbers aren't able to instigate an effective campaign - there are 2500 of you and 300 of us. What's worse - our existence or your inaction?
DirectAnyWhere- another FACT to add to the list:
Impulse pilots approached AIPA about 6 years ago to join the union and were unceremoniiously told to "f++k off" as AIPA was only for QANTAS skygods.
The only interest AIPA now has in the regionals and J* is to control the pilots and belatedly protect their own after the horse has well and trully bolted.
Impulse pilots approached AIPA about 6 years ago to join the union and were unceremoniiously told to "f++k off" as AIPA was only for QANTAS skygods.
The only interest AIPA now has in the regionals and J* is to control the pilots and belatedly protect their own after the horse has well and trully bolted.
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Wow flyingins. You score the PPrune prize for the most flagrant contradiction ever typed into a single post!
You agree we "should be trying to engage the Jetstar pilot group", but advocate "fight you own battles" and "you have to do that all on your own". I personally think we should engage the Jetstar pilot group (and certain former AIPA presidents should be taken outside and given a flogging for not bothering to try and unite Oz airline pilots much earlier), but your "have to go it alone - go and get stuffed and fight your own battles you arrogant mainliner" style makes me think that is a pipe dream.
Edit: and Pete's point below about certain members of the JPC is also very valid - they have demonstrated that they are absolutely not interested in any sort of reconciliation/unifying concept whatsoever.
You agree we "should be trying to engage the Jetstar pilot group", but advocate "fight you own battles" and "you have to do that all on your own". I personally think we should engage the Jetstar pilot group (and certain former AIPA presidents should be taken outside and given a flogging for not bothering to try and unite Oz airline pilots much earlier), but your "have to go it alone - go and get stuffed and fight your own battles you arrogant mainliner" style makes me think that is a pipe dream.
Edit: and Pete's point below about certain members of the JPC is also very valid - they have demonstrated that they are absolutely not interested in any sort of reconciliation/unifying concept whatsoever.
Last edited by DutchRoll; 5th Nov 2006 at 03:49.
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Longjohn, try Darwin-Singapore.
As previously mentioned in the thread, I'll be going Tiger from now on. Oh and we're talking 2 or 3 journeys a year here too.
K
As previously mentioned in the thread, I'll be going Tiger from now on. Oh and we're talking 2 or 3 journeys a year here too.
K
Last edited by Kanga767; 5th Nov 2006 at 17:01.
J*folks.... get past the few insulting opinions...
1. The insults seem to go both ways, so some should stop trying to always point at QF w@n#ers. It's a bigger group so, naturally, more opinions to disagree with.... nothing new there.
2. History is just that... NONE of the current AIPA Executive told the JPC to get lost a few years ago ok. It is also recognised by many (& maybe most?) that to not get J* pilots on board before it came to this was a big mistake. There're plenty of theories about why that may have been allowed to occur at the time.
3. Even previous AIPA helped improve J* conditions from abysmal to be tolerable to some.
4. Despite QF & GD continually talking in the media about the many awards and unions which need simplification, when AIPA seriously proposes award unifications, simplifications and a 'group opportunity list' (who has the most to gain from that?) they get told "It's never going to happen!" by GD! Who does that serve, and why do some J*-centric opinions not see through the spin and ulterior perception management going on?
5. I believe Mr Joyce's August letter misrepresented several issues to you. As I understood it, AIPA's valid concern was that new and different standards (ie not as stringent as have previously applied to QF itself) were being applied to an expedited ETOPS approval under the implied commercial duress to CASA of selling tickets on iminent services yet to gain ETOPS approval. It's just too easy to write it all off as purely an 'industrial claim'. QF pilots have realised that it pays to have a healthy cynicism: look through the spin. The truth is there somewhere, sometimes a LONG way beneath the surface.
And GA guys/gals? Take whatever opportuity fits you best. Just realise that, in the current climate, and only in the most limited numbers, does anyone change between any QF-group airline. The QF group management is playing dirty to keep all the QF-group pilots apart. It seems that until large numbers start leaving from any 'separate subsidiary', most likely from the bottom-dollar up, QF will remain an aggressive employer offering slow progression unless you're in the bottom-dollar group. The flip side is that maybe, in the not-too-distant-future, it's the bottom-dollar pilots who'll use the expertise gained to fly the coop for some 'world's best practice' remuneration, often substantially better than QF's! Those of us looking at nearly 20yrs to command because we took the QF discount (S/O and slow promo) in the first place, are now feeling pretty naive in retrospect.
2. History is just that... NONE of the current AIPA Executive told the JPC to get lost a few years ago ok. It is also recognised by many (& maybe most?) that to not get J* pilots on board before it came to this was a big mistake. There're plenty of theories about why that may have been allowed to occur at the time.
3. Even previous AIPA helped improve J* conditions from abysmal to be tolerable to some.
4. Despite QF & GD continually talking in the media about the many awards and unions which need simplification, when AIPA seriously proposes award unifications, simplifications and a 'group opportunity list' (who has the most to gain from that?) they get told "It's never going to happen!" by GD! Who does that serve, and why do some J*-centric opinions not see through the spin and ulterior perception management going on?
5. I believe Mr Joyce's August letter misrepresented several issues to you. As I understood it, AIPA's valid concern was that new and different standards (ie not as stringent as have previously applied to QF itself) were being applied to an expedited ETOPS approval under the implied commercial duress to CASA of selling tickets on iminent services yet to gain ETOPS approval. It's just too easy to write it all off as purely an 'industrial claim'. QF pilots have realised that it pays to have a healthy cynicism: look through the spin. The truth is there somewhere, sometimes a LONG way beneath the surface.
And GA guys/gals? Take whatever opportuity fits you best. Just realise that, in the current climate, and only in the most limited numbers, does anyone change between any QF-group airline. The QF group management is playing dirty to keep all the QF-group pilots apart. It seems that until large numbers start leaving from any 'separate subsidiary', most likely from the bottom-dollar up, QF will remain an aggressive employer offering slow progression unless you're in the bottom-dollar group. The flip side is that maybe, in the not-too-distant-future, it's the bottom-dollar pilots who'll use the expertise gained to fly the coop for some 'world's best practice' remuneration, often substantially better than QF's! Those of us looking at nearly 20yrs to command because we took the QF discount (S/O and slow promo) in the first place, are now feeling pretty naive in retrospect.
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RENURPP
Your post got me thinking....however the most ideal rego for the 'flagship' of the fleet has already been taken.
Although VH-POX & VH-EBD have one thing in common - one is an amateur built aircraft and the other is an amateur built airline, or should that be an airline built by amateurs??? 
The following info has been cut & pasted from the CASA website (my bolding).
The following aircraft matches your search criteria.
VH-POX
Power Driven Aeroplane with tricycle-fixed landing gear
Single Piston engine
Manufacturer: AMATEUR BUILT AIRCRAFT
Model: CH300
Serial number: N93
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 15 March 1984
Full Registration
Registration holder as of 19 July 2005
ANDERSON, John
34 Shiprock Rd
PORT HACKING NSW 2229
AUSTRALIA
Registered operator as of 19 July 2005
ANDERSON, John
34 Shiprock Rd
PORT HACKING NSW 2229
AUSTRALIA
Your post got me thinking....however the most ideal rego for the 'flagship' of the fleet has already been taken.
Although VH-POX & VH-EBD have one thing in common - one is an amateur built aircraft and the other is an amateur built airline, or should that be an airline built by amateurs??? The following info has been cut & pasted from the CASA website (my bolding).
The following aircraft matches your search criteria.
VH-POX
Power Driven Aeroplane with tricycle-fixed landing gear
Single Piston engine
Manufacturer: AMATEUR BUILT AIRCRAFT
Model: CH300
Serial number: N93
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 15 March 1984
Full Registration
Registration holder as of 19 July 2005
ANDERSON, John
34 Shiprock Rd
PORT HACKING NSW 2229
AUSTRALIA
Registered operator as of 19 July 2005
ANDERSON, John
34 Shiprock Rd
PORT HACKING NSW 2229
AUSTRALIA
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The JPC and their illustrious leader didn't want anything to do with AIPA, although, the JPC and their group of merry men will go around telling everyone that AIPA shunned them. The JPC saw that QF mainline flying was going to go to them, and under threats and intimidation by the once TJ, and AJ re base closures, loss of command prospects etc, they were told to have nothing to do with AIPA.
Then when the Tasman flying came along, JPC and their illustrious leader again went sniffing to the company to get a deal, but were told by TJ that if you roll over your EBA, you will get the Tasman flying.
Then to add insult, when they start flying, they put out all sorts of spin saying how well they are doing, mmm, now lets see, they get all the handouts from QF, plus they get all the transferred pax from QF flights....
But hey guys, keep the dream alive, you guys rock!! Jetstar is such a cash cow for QF......yeah right!
Then when the Tasman flying came along, JPC and their illustrious leader again went sniffing to the company to get a deal, but were told by TJ that if you roll over your EBA, you will get the Tasman flying.
Then to add insult, when they start flying, they put out all sorts of spin saying how well they are doing, mmm, now lets see, they get all the handouts from QF, plus they get all the transferred pax from QF flights....
But hey guys, keep the dream alive, you guys rock!! Jetstar is such a cash cow for QF......yeah right!
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Ironically, two of the founders of Impulses/QFlinks/Jetstars very 1st EBA are now with Qantas.One is a 767 F/O, the other a 2nd Officer on the 747. The package that these two put together was not popular but somehow it got up!. Laughably, the SO has been vocally critical of the jetstar group on qrew room. He was also the same guy that a few years ago continually over transmitted a SAR chopper, searching for a downed aircraft west of BNE, on guard. Organising your social life in the US should occur on the phone, not 121.5.
Double standards? You bet!!. Got to laugh at the comments coming from a group with a confirmed hull loss!!. Jesus wept!!.
The comments on this thread only serve to enhance your rep as a professional group!!.
DM
Double standards? You bet!!. Got to laugh at the comments coming from a group with a confirmed hull loss!!. Jesus wept!!.
The comments on this thread only serve to enhance your rep as a professional group!!.
DM
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DM, I wouldn't be so smart re your hull loss comment, Impulse have had their fare share of mishaps...you want to talk about the loss of inflight control of a 1900 at Willy, or the 717 that came within 300 ft of the Bruce Highway... For a man of your purported stature thats an unfair call...then again, all Jetstar guys are defensive,must be as a result of the labotomy after the interview process to get in.
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VH-POX
Power Driven Aeroplane with tricycle-fixed landing gear
Single Piston engine
Manufacturer: AMATEUR BUILT AIRCRAFT
Model: CH300
Serial number: N93
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 15 March 1984
Full Registration
Registration holder as of 19 July 2005
ANDERSON, John
34 Shiprock Rd
PORT HACKING NSW 2229
AUSTRALIA
Power Driven Aeroplane with tricycle-fixed landing gear
Single Piston engine
Manufacturer: AMATEUR BUILT AIRCRAFT
Model: CH300
Serial number: N93
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 15 March 1984
Full Registration
Registration holder as of 19 July 2005
ANDERSON, John
34 Shiprock Rd
PORT HACKING NSW 2229
AUSTRALIA
Jock Anderson is a Gynaecologist and a fine Scotsman......
Apt choice of rego.I taught Mrs. Anderson to fly. Both have great senses of humour
As for the rest of this thread:
Crystal Balls!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=230649&page=5
take a look at the top of page 5 of this thread... for those of you too lazy to click the link here is a reproduction of what I wrote back in June with regards to the former JPC president, who now is being groomed into a company training position on the JQI A330!
i guess i should have put $5K on that and specified that it would happen BEFORE JQI even flew their first passenger... I hope you JQ pilots feel as though you were well advised when it came to that said agreement! I say, WELL DONE!!!
take a look at the top of page 5 of this thread... for those of you too lazy to click the link here is a reproduction of what I wrote back in June with regards to the former JPC president, who now is being groomed into a company training position on the JQI A330!
i hope you didnt sign off on the agreement by just listening to Romeo Hotel and his cronies... if you did, then you have been spun by the doctor! if i were a betting man, id put $50 on that bloke having a job in management within 2 years of the introduction of JQI. He did the same "smooth the boys over for us" job that QF's illustrious leader did!
i guess i should have put $5K on that and specified that it would happen BEFORE JQI even flew their first passenger... I hope you JQ pilots feel as though you were well advised when it came to that said agreement! I say, WELL DONE!!!
I don't work for either.
What a rediculous comment. Is this an indication of the style of jerk that works for Poxstar?
Pox star are new comers and have nothing to brag about.
QF's safety record to date is some thing to be proud of. The reasons may be many and varied but it is thjeir record.
Just hope they are able to maintain it in the current environment.
Double standards? You bet!!. Got to laugh at the comments coming from a group with a confirmed hull loss!!. Jesus wept!!.
Pox star are new comers and have nothing to brag about.
QF's safety record to date is some thing to be proud of. The reasons may be many and varied but it is thjeir record.
Just hope they are able to maintain it in the current environment.
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Jet* International will fail in Japan no doubt about it, I know people there and the general public doesnt have a clue who they are. Its all about brand recognition, and if you can go Singair for same price why go with Jet* , But having said that figures can be doctored how much of a loss will they subsidise until they give up? Jet* will go quite well to some destinations no doubt but going down to Melbourne to stay with your best mate for a weekend is different to an international holiday people arent gonna do it nearly as often, and I think they will struggle with the inbound market with brand recognition. But I will eat my humble pie in one year if I am wrong, its just my guess thats its not gonna be all its hyped up to be. Unfortunately if they fail, its bad for Qantas (because of all the funds squandered while the likes of Emirates etc double probably) and if they succeed it will be bad for Qantas mainline too its a no win situation. 
But my guess is once they have to really compete rather than reduce mainline and substitute for Jet* they will fail miserably
But my guess is once they have to really compete rather than reduce mainline and substitute for Jet* they will fail miserably
This thread has crept onto the inevitable and predictable. Can't you guys duke it out on your own website or something? Perhaps you could swap mobile numbers and talk about it man to man. Honestly, its like mud-wrestling a pig....after a while you get the feeling you guys enjoy it.
Its ironic that Qantas lobbies the gummint hard to protect its routes all the while replacing its flagship fleet with, IMHO, a sub-standard product J*, which even more ironically is propped up by sharing a large part of its cost base with its parent. And they complain about M-rats!
I refuse to be shoehorned, nay almost blackmailed, into an inferior category of traveller because of the ridiculous protectionism displayed in Oz. Qantas whines to the government, competition is restricted, Qantas screws over the work force until its cost base is competitive and for what?? J* pay-as-you-go 'economy'? Stuff that, give me choice.
Sound management strategy from Qantas though, shareholders are pleased.
Its ironic that Qantas lobbies the gummint hard to protect its routes all the while replacing its flagship fleet with, IMHO, a sub-standard product J*, which even more ironically is propped up by sharing a large part of its cost base with its parent. And they complain about M-rats!
I refuse to be shoehorned, nay almost blackmailed, into an inferior category of traveller because of the ridiculous protectionism displayed in Oz. Qantas whines to the government, competition is restricted, Qantas screws over the work force until its cost base is competitive and for what?? J* pay-as-you-go 'economy'? Stuff that, give me choice.
Sound management strategy from Qantas though, shareholders are pleased.
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