Dixon crosses the line in the sand...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now that so many crew are using Virgin Blue instead of Staff Travel, wouldn't it be fun to see an 'Oral-B' style ad. You know the one where there is a back shot of a dentist, with the voice-over "this is Rob, he's a dentist so we can't show you his face". Something like a shot of a row of pilots in uniform from the back with the voice-over "these guys are Qantas pilots so we can't show you their faces, however they all prefer to travel on Virgin Blue". Wonder if Richard would be interested?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Straya
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAF - you are so right. I am sure you will agree that the employees should be arguing this in favour of their working entitlements and remuneration as well.
So, should they do this as individuals or collectively? Hmmm - which way will get taken seriously do you think?
So, should they do this as individuals or collectively? Hmmm - which way will get taken seriously do you think?
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: On a date with destiny.
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Let them eat cake..." Now who was it that said that ? I'm sure GD is laughing all the way to the bank... Oil price has come down, share price has gone up... Unions are effectively being squeezed courtesy of 'C'oward's industrial reform... Wow, Geoff's bonus is going to be HUGE !!!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I've been wondering about the tax treatment of the 'fuel levy'... does it just go into general revenue (and so contribute to profit and therefore get taxed as such) or to some special account which has some beneficial tax treatment?
Wonder if the boys and girls from the ATO have a reason to take a closer look??
Wonder if the boys and girls from the ATO have a reason to take a closer look??
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ostraaalya
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
omg. you are kidding aren't you? get out in the real world and pay for a commercial ticket.
take it from someone who does - it makes me sick to the stomach to hear you gripe about the fares when you pay, what, 10% of the commercial fare?
just shows how distanced from reality you are.
maybe qantas should just give the tickets away to charity rather than let staff buy them for cheaper prices if all they are gonna do is whinge about it.
take it from someone who does - it makes me sick to the stomach to hear you gripe about the fares when you pay, what, 10% of the commercial fare?
just shows how distanced from reality you are.
maybe qantas should just give the tickets away to charity rather than let staff buy them for cheaper prices if all they are gonna do is whinge about it.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Crank makes a very valid point there insofar as a quip like that makes us all look like extremely spoilt brats, the media pick up on one like that, just remember who was recently appointed to the board, and our credibility in the public eye evaporates faster than the average Australians working conditions.
crank
What a jealous little person you are. Sounds like you missed out on your dream aviation job and are bitter at those that made it. All jobs have there staff benefits. I’ve worked in a number of industries totally unrelated to aviation and they all had some form of staff benefits so get off your high horse. For the record staff tickets at most airlines are 10% of the “FULL” undiscounted airfare “PLUS” all the taxes and fuel surcharges which are quite frankly out of control and are in many of the cases more than the ticket itself. They are not as some think 10% of the fares you see advertised in the paper or the window of Flight Centre as you walk buy. Most of these airfares are about 30-50% of the full airfare. And while you, with your 30-50% discounted ticket have a confirmed seat we are on standby which at times can be bl**dy stressful. Airlines today consider staff travel as a profit centre and have gradually reduced the benefits to staff to the point that in some cases it is cheaper to buy a full fare ticket than use an ID ticket. And all this while airline staff have seen considerable erosion in their terms and conditions. So the next time you want to open your mouth about airline staff travel, think about what you want to say before hand or don’t say anything at all because it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.
Fliegenmong
Do you have any idea how airline staff travel works? If you don't then I suggest you re-read the above. It's not all it seems.
What a jealous little person you are. Sounds like you missed out on your dream aviation job and are bitter at those that made it. All jobs have there staff benefits. I’ve worked in a number of industries totally unrelated to aviation and they all had some form of staff benefits so get off your high horse. For the record staff tickets at most airlines are 10% of the “FULL” undiscounted airfare “PLUS” all the taxes and fuel surcharges which are quite frankly out of control and are in many of the cases more than the ticket itself. They are not as some think 10% of the fares you see advertised in the paper or the window of Flight Centre as you walk buy. Most of these airfares are about 30-50% of the full airfare. And while you, with your 30-50% discounted ticket have a confirmed seat we are on standby which at times can be bl**dy stressful. Airlines today consider staff travel as a profit centre and have gradually reduced the benefits to staff to the point that in some cases it is cheaper to buy a full fare ticket than use an ID ticket. And all this while airline staff have seen considerable erosion in their terms and conditions. So the next time you want to open your mouth about airline staff travel, think about what you want to say before hand or don’t say anything at all because it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.
Fliegenmong
Do you have any idea how airline staff travel works? If you don't then I suggest you re-read the above. It's not all it seems.
Crank...
If you think 'Staff travel' is really 10% then your reality is somewhat distant too.
These days, it's often the case that Jetstar or Virgin are cheaper than the staff travel cost (depending on route and, yes, from first-hand experience) so airline people do buy commercial tickets for their travel needs. But therein lies the joke. QF keeps saying that staff travel, where you travel ONLY if there's a vacant seat anyway, is not covering costs!?! Staff travel NEVER displaces a 'commercial ticket', yet now sometimes costs more than that ticket. And as for the FBT argument thrown about: another joke.
Now, I don't gripe about bankers getting cheap loans, builders getting houses built for cheap, car salespeople getting discounts on their vehicles etc. The list goes on.
You could afford to chill a bit. Enjoy your journey.
These days, it's often the case that Jetstar or Virgin are cheaper than the staff travel cost (depending on route and, yes, from first-hand experience) so airline people do buy commercial tickets for their travel needs. But therein lies the joke. QF keeps saying that staff travel, where you travel ONLY if there's a vacant seat anyway, is not covering costs!?! Staff travel NEVER displaces a 'commercial ticket', yet now sometimes costs more than that ticket. And as for the FBT argument thrown about: another joke.
Now, I don't gripe about bankers getting cheap loans, builders getting houses built for cheap, car salespeople getting discounts on their vehicles etc. The list goes on.
You could afford to chill a bit. Enjoy your journey.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
404 - Been flying around on ID90 tickets for many years, and know all to well the standing around waiting for your name to be called. Have been bounced many many times, back to a hotel try again next day damn near more expensive than full fare after you've been bounced a few times. You are correct that staff travel is nowadays viewed as a revenue soutrce. There was a time when there was a possibilty of contacting rostering to determine who was to operate the flight and try to organise a jump seat if I was travelling alone - yes mate I am very familiar with staff travel, and the associated stresses, the public however are not, and if you would kindly re read my post and pick up on the point that I have made and the detrimant on pubic opinion that it would have I would be most appreciative. I believe Crank was simply expressing what the public sentiment would be to such careless throw away line as that
Thanking you in advance
Thanking you in advance
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SE Aus
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
404 - Well said.
I was going to be a little more humble about it however. Staff travel, whilst becoming an ever increasing profit centre for airlines, is still usually cheaper.
Having said that, almost all the people I speak to outside the industry cannot believe it when I tell them that my employer charges such a high price for staff travel tickets, especially when employees may be using them to get to and from work.
It seems to me it is only certain people within the (aviation) industry that are unhappy with the concept of airline staff getting cheap fares. To the wider community (in my experience), cheap fares for airline employees seems reasonable. The concept of an airline jacking up staff travel prices to make profit from its own employees makes most reasonable people want to vomit
How little it actually costs to carry an employee, compared to what a great employee engagement tool staff travel can be.
I have worked for other operators that charge nix for a free seat. Of course I don't expect a seat for free, especially when the airline is incurring taxes etc for my carriage. I do, however, take offence at paying a crappy fuel levy which pays for the extra fuel burn many times over in most cases, then getting to work and being asked to delay starting the APU or shut down an engine during taxy in.
Give and take. What's that?
Ah bugger - we have hijacked the thread haven't we? We were talking about Dixon crossing a line in the sand...
I was going to be a little more humble about it however. Staff travel, whilst becoming an ever increasing profit centre for airlines, is still usually cheaper.
Having said that, almost all the people I speak to outside the industry cannot believe it when I tell them that my employer charges such a high price for staff travel tickets, especially when employees may be using them to get to and from work.
It seems to me it is only certain people within the (aviation) industry that are unhappy with the concept of airline staff getting cheap fares. To the wider community (in my experience), cheap fares for airline employees seems reasonable. The concept of an airline jacking up staff travel prices to make profit from its own employees makes most reasonable people want to vomit
How little it actually costs to carry an employee, compared to what a great employee engagement tool staff travel can be.
I have worked for other operators that charge nix for a free seat. Of course I don't expect a seat for free, especially when the airline is incurring taxes etc for my carriage. I do, however, take offence at paying a crappy fuel levy which pays for the extra fuel burn many times over in most cases, then getting to work and being asked to delay starting the APU or shut down an engine during taxy in.
Give and take. What's that?
Ah bugger - we have hijacked the thread haven't we? We were talking about Dixon crossing a line in the sand...
Last edited by Victor India; 12th Oct 2006 at 05:04.
Fliegenmong
My apologies to you. I wasn’t trying to imply the same tone to your comment as Cranky’s. I do understand where you are coming from but what I have found in reality is most people don’t have a problem with airline staff getting cheap tickets. As has been said some are amazed that my staff ticket is sometimes only a little bit cheaper than there confirmed ticket and are even more amazed when there ticket is cheaper.
If we all become too bogged down in what the general public think we may win the fight but in the end loose the battle because we weren’t focused.
My apologies to you. I wasn’t trying to imply the same tone to your comment as Cranky’s. I do understand where you are coming from but what I have found in reality is most people don’t have a problem with airline staff getting cheap tickets. As has been said some are amazed that my staff ticket is sometimes only a little bit cheaper than there confirmed ticket and are even more amazed when there ticket is cheaper.
If we all become too bogged down in what the general public think we may win the fight but in the end loose the battle because we weren’t focused.
404 Titan, Jetsbest, VI and others, thanks for saving me the time to respond to crank. I agree with VI, when (normal (whatever that is!)) people hear how much it is staff travel (domestic especially) and the said 'surcharges' they can't believe it. It stinks that the company charges its employees as much as it does for the said service, so therefore, I stand by my comment from the previous post. I perhaps wouldn't be so angry if we didn't constantly have people from other parts of the company staff travelling around for free! Anyhow I digress.
Fliegenmong, I hear what you say, but again, what 404 Titan said above!! Also, I don't think we are being unreasonable. I don't expect the ticket for free, just the cost of tax and offsetting other things such as staff travel employee’s cost, baggage handling etc. At the moment, IMHO, the price of the tickets are way above these costs and such we are being thoroughly ripped off! For what reason? To further p!ss us off? Why?
Ill also tell you VI, people get even more disgusted when you tell them you have to pay $80 to go to your own Christmas party and that doesn't even include drinks!
Anyhow I do love my job, I do want our company to do well and continue to be the best as well as continue our proud history. However with the clowns that are running the show at the moment and some of the decisions they are making towards attacking their staff, the future looks bleak:
If you want good customer relations, you must first have good employee relations...Walt Disney
ps I don't think this is too bigger thread drift, its all about the fact we have had enough from our hypocritical leader(s)...
Fliegenmong, I hear what you say, but again, what 404 Titan said above!! Also, I don't think we are being unreasonable. I don't expect the ticket for free, just the cost of tax and offsetting other things such as staff travel employee’s cost, baggage handling etc. At the moment, IMHO, the price of the tickets are way above these costs and such we are being thoroughly ripped off! For what reason? To further p!ss us off? Why?
Ill also tell you VI, people get even more disgusted when you tell them you have to pay $80 to go to your own Christmas party and that doesn't even include drinks!
Anyhow I do love my job, I do want our company to do well and continue to be the best as well as continue our proud history. However with the clowns that are running the show at the moment and some of the decisions they are making towards attacking their staff, the future looks bleak:
If you want good customer relations, you must first have good employee relations...Walt Disney
ps I don't think this is too bigger thread drift, its all about the fact we have had enough from our hypocritical leader(s)...
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Oz
Posts: 754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, upon re-reading, I think Crank was actually expressing a strong personal opinion, not just what public sentiment might be! But just like the public often does, he expresses a view on something he doesn't really understand the finer details of.
Chill out Crank. People, including the paying public, gripe about everything. There are legitimate 'issues' developing with QF staff travel and what the company is doing with it. Dixon does not want his employees enjoying any benefits of any description - period.
Chill out Crank. People, including the paying public, gripe about everything. There are legitimate 'issues' developing with QF staff travel and what the company is doing with it. Dixon does not want his employees enjoying any benefits of any description - period.
Crank, you simply don't understand the difference between a staff ticket and a publicly available ticket. Staff tickets are generally "sub load" which means that you get a seat only if there is no ordinary fare paying passenger who wants it. That applies on multi sector flights as well. There is thus considerable risk that your holiday plans may not end up being what you signed up for.
I've been offloaded in Karachi and spent several days there waiting for an onward flight to London that had an empty seat. Also the last four or five days of a holiday can be hell as you keep having to ring to see what the loadings are, and furthermore in my day at least being stuck in a foriegn port waiting for a flight home was NOT sufficient excuse for being absent from work.
If you want final proof, the ATO looked at staff tickets to see if they came under the fringe benefits tax umbrella and concluded it wasnt worth it.
Having said that, I had a great time in Karachi (Thank you Lufthansa!).
I've been offloaded in Karachi and spent several days there waiting for an onward flight to London that had an empty seat. Also the last four or five days of a holiday can be hell as you keep having to ring to see what the loadings are, and furthermore in my day at least being stuck in a foriegn port waiting for a flight home was NOT sufficient excuse for being absent from work.
If you want final proof, the ATO looked at staff tickets to see if they came under the fringe benefits tax umbrella and concluded it wasnt worth it.
Having said that, I had a great time in Karachi (Thank you Lufthansa!).
Sunfish... &/or anyone who knows
QF people still get an FBT assessment on their group certificates and I believe any staff travel undertaken contributes to the amount (as does sal/sac for car/computer etc). Can anyone confirm? I'm not a regular staff traveller.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: NSW,Australia
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You all may think you are being hard done-by with staff travel as current employee's. Just try it as a retiree, every year you go back in subload catergry after current employee's. I retired 3 years ago after 30 yrs my start date now equates to 27 years service as well as the disadvantage of retiree status.
My last 2 trips domestically have been on Virgin not QF even after Jetstar was a few dollars cheaper, I did that on principle.
I will use my remaing LSL trips on QF with commercial backups on other carriers.
After that its the caravan around Australia bugger QF and others.
My last 2 trips domestically have been on Virgin not QF even after Jetstar was a few dollars cheaper, I did that on principle.
I will use my remaing LSL trips on QF with commercial backups on other carriers.
After that its the caravan around Australia bugger QF and others.
Last edited by capt.cynical; 13th Oct 2006 at 09:19.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In the bone yard.
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
capt cynical, same same and could not agree more.
I started using Virgin well before I retired and the peace of mind gained from being full fare at near staff travel prices was a revelation. If I was planning an o/s trip I would shop around for full fare deals as I am fed up with the onload and offload hassles, who needs the stress.
I started using Virgin well before I retired and the peace of mind gained from being full fare at near staff travel prices was a revelation. If I was planning an o/s trip I would shop around for full fare deals as I am fed up with the onload and offload hassles, who needs the stress.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I only ever fly on QF using staff travel these days if it's a last minute thing.
Virgin is great if you look out for the daily domestic happy hour specials.
You can usually get a confirmed seat for a similar price or even slightly less than the QF staff travel price.
Internationally the only reason to buy a QF staff ticket is if you want an upgradeable ticket.
Other than that, most other carriers offer ZED fares now (through staff stravel), which in a lot of cases are cheaper than the QEA fare and the tickets incur no fuel surcharge.
On the FBT, I used to get an FBT amount on my group cert, but it was zero this year as well.
Virgin is great if you look out for the daily domestic happy hour specials.
You can usually get a confirmed seat for a similar price or even slightly less than the QF staff travel price.
Internationally the only reason to buy a QF staff ticket is if you want an upgradeable ticket.
Other than that, most other carriers offer ZED fares now (through staff stravel), which in a lot of cases are cheaper than the QEA fare and the tickets incur no fuel surcharge.
On the FBT, I used to get an FBT amount on my group cert, but it was zero this year as well.
