Qantas pilots to agree to pay freeze?
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Qantas pilots to agree to pay freeze?
Any of you Qantas pilots out there know anything about agreeing to a three year pay freeze?
You might want to know that if you do that, you will be taking the rest of the QF group with you.
QF Link have already put the hammers on their people and contractors. "Our pilots will be on a wage freeze, your people will have to follow suit."
So, will you guys stand firm and protect industry conditions?
You might want to know that if you do that, you will be taking the rest of the QF group with you.
QF Link have already put the hammers on their people and contractors. "Our pilots will be on a wage freeze, your people will have to follow suit."
So, will you guys stand firm and protect industry conditions?
Last edited by Kransky; 7th Oct 2006 at 08:15.
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Mate, have a look around then open your mouth.
Nothing has been agreed to, in fact the association and the company are still poles apart in terms of demands.
Even if QF rolled and offered something reasonable, it is doubtful that it would be
a) Offered to the members due to new issues revolving around the workchoices lawsone
b) If voted on , unlikely it would get up as NO crew trust management at all, and would see that any agreement is probably just a set up for something BAD in the future.
The QF 73 drivers are some of the most efficient and profitable pilots in the region (yeh, they are paid reasonably well, but remember that 5 years ago they were the cheap 73 pilots!!)
QF management see them as a good place to start, so while you feel threatened on their behalf, be aware that the guys themselves aren't impressed, aren't going to roll over and have had enough.
QF are hitting their heads against a brick wall here this time.
Nothing has been agreed to, in fact the association and the company are still poles apart in terms of demands.
Even if QF rolled and offered something reasonable, it is doubtful that it would be
a) Offered to the members due to new issues revolving around the workchoices lawsone
b) If voted on , unlikely it would get up as NO crew trust management at all, and would see that any agreement is probably just a set up for something BAD in the future.
The QF 73 drivers are some of the most efficient and profitable pilots in the region (yeh, they are paid reasonably well, but remember that 5 years ago they were the cheap 73 pilots!!)
QF management see them as a good place to start, so while you feel threatened on their behalf, be aware that the guys themselves aren't impressed, aren't going to roll over and have had enough.
QF are hitting their heads against a brick wall here this time.
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So let me check the facts thus far. Qantas is pushing you guys to accept a type freeze. It is on the table. You are relying on everyone to vote it down. But it is a possibility that they might grumble and take it.
We don't have to look to far back to see an AIPA 'vote it down' directive on a QF EBA being ignored. The last one got up, much to the disgust of many PPRUNErs.
I am not having a go at you mate. I really hope that you guys throw it out. Because it wont be just yourselves that you will shaft if you don't. You will be sh!tting in everybody's nest.
I sincerely hope that I am wrong. Good luck.
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There was no AIPA "vote it down" directive. What happened was that the previous regime negotiated that deal and members of the incoming regime urged it to be voted down and were ignored by the majority.
Aipa hasn't signed off an anything the company has "offered" re: the SH EBA.
Nunc est bibendum
Incorrect. There is nothing to vote down yet. AIPA hasn't 'agreed' with the company to even bother putting it to the vote.
Possibly but time actually works for AIPA in the medium term rather than for QF.
As do I!
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The "east islanders" Keg, have crappy conditions, but not nearly as bad as Express Freighters, yet AIPA have been silent in their drive to obtain that flying for existing QF Pilots. We have a case of an excess of B737 pilots in mainline, while EFA are recruiting?
Industrial activity and tactics are difficult - deciding which battle is worth the fight is often a difficult call. I would have thought that the EFA battle was one that we should have won.
Industrial activity and tactics are difficult - deciding which battle is worth the fight is often a difficult call. I would have thought that the EFA battle was one that we should have won.
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AIPA have not accepted any deal put forward for the current EBA(shorthaul). Nor as you would expect has any deal been put to the pilots to vote on. Basically the deal has been so insultingly bad it hasnt even been worth considering.
The whole thing is disgusting. Dixon and his communist mates need a good hard look at themselves.
The whole thing is disgusting. Dixon and his communist mates need a good hard look at themselves.
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Kransky, how do you come to the conclusion that the 73 guys will be sh1tting in everybody's nest? I'm curious, and how do you come to the conclusion that they gave the Jetstar fringe dwellers cr@p without good reason?
I think you should remember who has crapped in everyones nest here mate, and it won't be the 73 guys...in fact, why dont you go grab yourself a copy of the Jetstar Pilot Management Guide and take a real look at the culprits here.
Lets not forget that RH and his band of merry men at the JPC are responsible for this crap..the mentality of we'll scrag for the work like we did in Impulse days, then try and fight for better pay later on is going to backfire...look at the A330 guys from the desert who didn't even bother showing up for groundschool recently...
You want to direct your frustration at people kransky, do it to the people who deserve it, alternatively, vote with your feet and leave, thats about the only thing self respecting pilots can do these days.
I think you should remember who has crapped in everyones nest here mate, and it won't be the 73 guys...in fact, why dont you go grab yourself a copy of the Jetstar Pilot Management Guide and take a real look at the culprits here.
Lets not forget that RH and his band of merry men at the JPC are responsible for this crap..the mentality of we'll scrag for the work like we did in Impulse days, then try and fight for better pay later on is going to backfire...look at the A330 guys from the desert who didn't even bother showing up for groundschool recently...
You want to direct your frustration at people kransky, do it to the people who deserve it, alternatively, vote with your feet and leave, thats about the only thing self respecting pilots can do these days.
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Keg,
Always good to read your posts, you gave me the answer I needed. Basically QF are telling QF link people that the pay freeze is something they want. But it isn't even in a document to be voted on.
Cheers, that is good to know.
Pete Conrad,
Mate try not to read what I am saying as dumping on QF SH. When it comes to "us and them" try to remember that the "us" should be all pilots and the "them" should be the management.
What would be good is for some of the JQ pilots to stop thinking "stuff them, they told us to stuff off back when we approached them." Not helpful.
Equally not helpful is the way some, not all, QF pilots have sledged JQ pilots. Even if you guys are right, and JPC and JQ have stuffed it up for the industry all on their own (which I doubt), your mates continue to lay the blame at their feet.
Time for laying blame is over. It is in YOUR interest to get over it, whatever you think it is, and get the hell on with engaging with everybody. AIPA, JPC, AFAP, TWU, NZALPA.
Instead we have AIPA effectively taking JPC to court over the international flying issue. QF might be the respondent, but the guts of it is QF pilots going to court to stop JQ pilots flying "their" routes.
That is just plain not going to work out good for pilots in the long run.
JQ are here, engage not sue. Also flying jets in this country are Virgin, NJS, Alliance, Skywest, OzJet. Now you can think what you like about those operations, but they fly 80-180 seat narrowbody jets.
Ok, so you guys are better than us. Fine. But on paper we have a few thousand hrs jet. In EFIS/FMS/Glass/automated, whatever you prefer to call it. We have ATPL, class 1 medical, CAR 217 in sims. Like you.
So watch out. We CAN do your job. I like it where I am right now. Who the hell wants to live in Sydney, terrible place IMHO.
Keep me out of your way. Tell us what is going on, what you are really being threatened with, and we will know more when QF comes to scare us and try and put the screws on us.
"Keep your allies close, and your enemies closer!" Sun Tzu, Art of War.
Always good to read your posts, you gave me the answer I needed. Basically QF are telling QF link people that the pay freeze is something they want. But it isn't even in a document to be voted on.
Cheers, that is good to know.
Pete Conrad,
Mate try not to read what I am saying as dumping on QF SH. When it comes to "us and them" try to remember that the "us" should be all pilots and the "them" should be the management.
What would be good is for some of the JQ pilots to stop thinking "stuff them, they told us to stuff off back when we approached them." Not helpful.
Equally not helpful is the way some, not all, QF pilots have sledged JQ pilots. Even if you guys are right, and JPC and JQ have stuffed it up for the industry all on their own (which I doubt), your mates continue to lay the blame at their feet.
Time for laying blame is over. It is in YOUR interest to get over it, whatever you think it is, and get the hell on with engaging with everybody. AIPA, JPC, AFAP, TWU, NZALPA.
Instead we have AIPA effectively taking JPC to court over the international flying issue. QF might be the respondent, but the guts of it is QF pilots going to court to stop JQ pilots flying "their" routes.
That is just plain not going to work out good for pilots in the long run.
JQ are here, engage not sue. Also flying jets in this country are Virgin, NJS, Alliance, Skywest, OzJet. Now you can think what you like about those operations, but they fly 80-180 seat narrowbody jets.
Ok, so you guys are better than us. Fine. But on paper we have a few thousand hrs jet. In EFIS/FMS/Glass/automated, whatever you prefer to call it. We have ATPL, class 1 medical, CAR 217 in sims. Like you.
So watch out. We CAN do your job. I like it where I am right now. Who the hell wants to live in Sydney, terrible place IMHO.
Keep me out of your way. Tell us what is going on, what you are really being threatened with, and we will know more when QF comes to scare us and try and put the screws on us.
"Keep your allies close, and your enemies closer!" Sun Tzu, Art of War.
Last edited by Kransky; 8th Oct 2006 at 01:08.
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The difference is that there was no directive. How could their be? The EBA was negotiated by the then executive of AIPA. Why would they issue a directive to vote no to what they had just negotiated?
AIPA isn't suing the JPC. All you are showing is that you have no idea about what that case is about. In fact, if AIPA wins then Jetstar pilots aren't going to lose international flying, they may have a very big win.
AIPA isn't suing the JPC. All you are showing is that you have no idea about what that case is about. In fact, if AIPA wins then Jetstar pilots aren't going to lose international flying, they may have a very big win.
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Not trying to be divisive but why did the JPC accept such a crap deal when they had the ball in their court? It's about time we all stood together on this issue.
Also, seeing the company wants convergence with Virgin, when do we start seeing the execs packages starting to converge with their Virgin counterparts? Got to lead by example....
Also, seeing the company wants convergence with Virgin, when do we start seeing the execs packages starting to converge with their Virgin counterparts? Got to lead by example....
Seriously anyone from Jetstar wish to enlighten us as to what the logic was here?
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Pete Conrad
Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar
Get help......LOSER!!!
Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar Blah Blah Blah Jetstar
Get help......LOSER!!!
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Kransky, if QF are telling you that mainline 737 pilots are happy for a pay freeze, or have agreed to a pay freeze, or are hinting they'd be agreeable to a pay freeze, or are negotiating a pay freeze then they are seriously lying to you. I mean, it wouldn't even be a little fib. It would be a great big whopper!
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Which window will we look through today
Low cost airline models, J star and V blue. Folks paying for their own endorsements and TRG. Scroll forward to five yrs from now and lets look through the "round window" when all the low cost model aircrew have commands on new shiny jets, new folks entering the industry will have accepted the remuneration aspects of the day and surprise surprise QF aircrew will be paid approx 30% less.
As for folks that talk about standing and your digs, bandying together, becomming industrially organised, joining unions-Please!!!! Folks will still need to pay their bills, mortgages, kids school fees and eat. Hence folks will either leave the industry or work for less. There will be no shortage of kids wanting to punt a light twin around for $100k. Better get used to it, lower $$$$$ remuneration contracts are the way of the future for airlines employees as the companies attempt to exist and survive under rising fuel and aviation costs.
Glad to be away from the noise!
Max
As for folks that talk about standing and your digs, bandying together, becomming industrially organised, joining unions-Please!!!! Folks will still need to pay their bills, mortgages, kids school fees and eat. Hence folks will either leave the industry or work for less. There will be no shortage of kids wanting to punt a light twin around for $100k. Better get used to it, lower $$$$$ remuneration contracts are the way of the future for airlines employees as the companies attempt to exist and survive under rising fuel and aviation costs.
Glad to be away from the noise!
Max
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maxeemum,
Obviously you heard that story at the last amangemtn (I meant that....) meeting at J*.
Quite a story too.
Sorry to be a bore, but consider how many people are learning to fly now, and consider how many will take that punt with no chance of the elusive high paying job.
Maybe some will pay the big bucks and then, like many other industries, realise that Oz is a basket case and bugger off o.s., thus joining the oft reported brain drain occuring to Oz right now.
Not all crew will have their command, other than being physically impossible, abruptly the music stops leaving some peed off pilots who have already bought thier 4 bar epps, still sitting in the rh seat.
All airline expansion happens this way, right place/right time and all that...
The reality you phrophecise may occur in Oz temporarily but as we are already seeing, the supply/demand whatsamabob turns of its own accord.
Did I hear something about A330 drivers just not turn up to the J* groundschool?
Obviously you heard that story at the last amangemtn (I meant that....) meeting at J*.
Quite a story too.
Sorry to be a bore, but consider how many people are learning to fly now, and consider how many will take that punt with no chance of the elusive high paying job.
Maybe some will pay the big bucks and then, like many other industries, realise that Oz is a basket case and bugger off o.s., thus joining the oft reported brain drain occuring to Oz right now.
Not all crew will have their command, other than being physically impossible, abruptly the music stops leaving some peed off pilots who have already bought thier 4 bar epps, still sitting in the rh seat.
All airline expansion happens this way, right place/right time and all that...
The reality you phrophecise may occur in Oz temporarily but as we are already seeing, the supply/demand whatsamabob turns of its own accord.
Did I hear something about A330 drivers just not turn up to the J* groundschool?