QF Cabin Crew Discussions
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Originally Posted by Leane7
Twiggs,
It is an X pattern
It is an X pattern
I have just found a pattern in the book where SYD base operate on a classsic LAX-HNL slip and pax to SYD (LF01)
Maybe Leane could look up the crew list for the flight and see what the pattern says for the SYD based crew who are doing the LAX-HNL sector with her.
It does sound like the AKL based crew are the only ones going through.
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Originally Posted by OCCR
I bet the AIPA never gave dispensation!
They arent that dumb!
at least they are interested in the welfare of their pilots! unlike the FAAA and FARSA
They arent that dumb!
at least they are interested in the welfare of their pilots! unlike the FAAA and FARSA
Pilots' hour limitations are a legal requirement and not open to negotiation in the same way that ours are.
Our limitations are not a legal requirement, just an EBA requirement which is open to modification upon mutual agreement.
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If Dixon Read This Guff
If Dixon read this stuff that masquerades as qantas commentary he would laugh his head off.
No wonder Cabin Crew are getting done over.
The collective IQ of this entire thread is about -50.points
No wonder Cabin Crew are getting done over.
The collective IQ of this entire thread is about -50.points
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Twiggs not true. CASA has legal limitations for pilot hours, of which AIPA in conjuntion with QF give various exemptions allowing longer tours of duty depending on crew combinations etc.
If AIPA pulled the plug on some of these exemptions, and the pilots worked to the letter of the law things would be in a pickle.
If AIPA pulled the plug on some of these exemptions, and the pilots worked to the letter of the law things would be in a pickle.
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machinegun Fellatio,
Too true,Darth must be laughing himself to sleep at nights after reading some of the comments here,talk about romper room....and people that for some inane reason believe that they are representative of mainstream views..if they are indeed crew
It is time we take the fight to the company instead of reacting to a move of theirs....we have to be proactive ....There are a number of inconsistencies with the company and our EBA and we need to put pressure on the company especially in the media and the next shareholders meeting
Too true,Darth must be laughing himself to sleep at nights after reading some of the comments here,talk about romper room....and people that for some inane reason believe that they are representative of mainstream views..if they are indeed crew
It is time we take the fight to the company instead of reacting to a move of theirs....we have to be proactive ....There are a number of inconsistencies with the company and our EBA and we need to put pressure on the company especially in the media and the next shareholders meeting
Last edited by lowerlobe; 12th Jun 2006 at 08:29.
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blushing intellectuals
OOOOOHHHHHHH, come on guys...we're not getting all shy and bashful because a couple of pilots are now viewing our learned thoughts are we??....the conversations in here are no different from any that are taking place right now in back galleys and crew rooms around the qf network.
we haven't yet discovered Life's Meaning - but have a look at a few of the other threads -they're about as interesting as a F/D check list.
However, as somebody said, -there is a real possibility that the FAAA senior execs are now posting in here IN DRAG! A most frightening thought.
we haven't yet discovered Life's Meaning - but have a look at a few of the other threads -they're about as interesting as a F/D check list.
However, as somebody said, -there is a real possibility that the FAAA senior execs are now posting in here IN DRAG! A most frightening thought.
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A couple of points.
"why dont you call the union and ask them?"
I stopped calling the union when every time I called I was told no official was available and to leave my name and they would call me back.
Once , twice maybe, but at leats 8 times is a joke.
If this is what reducing the number of elected officials causes then it is time to go back to too many officials, at least someone was there to take a call. Am i the only one that has experienced this level of union service.It seems the only time you get some officials time is if you have a clause 11.I don't bother calling anymore. I just want someone different to vote for who will pick up a phone when I call.
The other genius remark was made only recently by FAAAs MM suggesting we shouldn't beat around the bush.We should accept we are the most expensive qf crew. Forgive me for suggesting that our conditions were fought for by previous members and officials to achieve a wage that is commensurate with the tasks , skills, and hours required of us. We are shift workers who can be rostered up to 17 hours and extended to 20 under certain conditions.When was the last time an office worker was required to turn up for a 17 hour day on a regular occurence.Forget no loadings for Xmas , public holidays, weekends etc like most other shift workers in australia receive.When was the last time our office workers were required to sit for an extremely stressful exam twice yearly every year.
Let's NOT beat around the bush. We have a set of skills which has continually recovered thousands of customers for the business. Not every one can handle people who are jammed in like sardines and make them feel we offer a better service and genuineness they know they wont get from most other airlines.Our UK crew who were formerly aussie based have been recognised for their skills by the Company offering a sweetener of 10 000k. Why offer it if they have not offered a value or if their skill level doesn't justify it.
To suggest we are expensive as though we should almost be ashamed of it or why it makes it harder to negotiate on our behalf is not the way to go.I have no doubt anyone from the ACTU reading that newsletter would have apoplexy. I would expect our union to highlight that for the work we do we are on a reasonable pay. The fact that SHaul has accepted to do our flying for less conditions should be criticised and some serious backroom discussions held with our SHaul colleagues for how it has potentially undermined their fellow LHaul colleagues and how it needs to be rectified in the next EBA. If our divisional (short and long) Faaa reps can't come to terms, then bring out the issues publicly to both LHaul and SHaul crew and let them decide whether we are better off with one division united or two divisions where the reps seem to never quite agree.We shouldn't be lectured that by inference we should be copping tough times sweet because we are more expensive than others.We need to educate , remind and state if we are more expensive it is because our conditions(hours flying, jetlag, number of passengers, number of days away, no public/week end loadings) are taken into acount when our wage was negotiated.
Perhaps now that SHaul has had a taste of L Haul hours and flying without our conditions they might agree that their conditions need to be brought into line and to the same level as ours. Maybe we need to challenge the Company that there is no short haul or long Haul anymore. We have effectively been merged and we need to have our conditions merged rather than having one workforce played off against the other.CMON GUYS look at what the real picture is here!!!!Maybe a good place to start discussions with our SHaul FAAA reps
Our conditions are being attacked and lowered and our eye is not on the ball. Maybe we need Gus Hiddink as our FAAA leader. or at least coach our FAAA reps on how better to play the game
"why dont you call the union and ask them?"
I stopped calling the union when every time I called I was told no official was available and to leave my name and they would call me back.
Once , twice maybe, but at leats 8 times is a joke.
If this is what reducing the number of elected officials causes then it is time to go back to too many officials, at least someone was there to take a call. Am i the only one that has experienced this level of union service.It seems the only time you get some officials time is if you have a clause 11.I don't bother calling anymore. I just want someone different to vote for who will pick up a phone when I call.
The other genius remark was made only recently by FAAAs MM suggesting we shouldn't beat around the bush.We should accept we are the most expensive qf crew. Forgive me for suggesting that our conditions were fought for by previous members and officials to achieve a wage that is commensurate with the tasks , skills, and hours required of us. We are shift workers who can be rostered up to 17 hours and extended to 20 under certain conditions.When was the last time an office worker was required to turn up for a 17 hour day on a regular occurence.Forget no loadings for Xmas , public holidays, weekends etc like most other shift workers in australia receive.When was the last time our office workers were required to sit for an extremely stressful exam twice yearly every year.
Let's NOT beat around the bush. We have a set of skills which has continually recovered thousands of customers for the business. Not every one can handle people who are jammed in like sardines and make them feel we offer a better service and genuineness they know they wont get from most other airlines.Our UK crew who were formerly aussie based have been recognised for their skills by the Company offering a sweetener of 10 000k. Why offer it if they have not offered a value or if their skill level doesn't justify it.
To suggest we are expensive as though we should almost be ashamed of it or why it makes it harder to negotiate on our behalf is not the way to go.I have no doubt anyone from the ACTU reading that newsletter would have apoplexy. I would expect our union to highlight that for the work we do we are on a reasonable pay. The fact that SHaul has accepted to do our flying for less conditions should be criticised and some serious backroom discussions held with our SHaul colleagues for how it has potentially undermined their fellow LHaul colleagues and how it needs to be rectified in the next EBA. If our divisional (short and long) Faaa reps can't come to terms, then bring out the issues publicly to both LHaul and SHaul crew and let them decide whether we are better off with one division united or two divisions where the reps seem to never quite agree.We shouldn't be lectured that by inference we should be copping tough times sweet because we are more expensive than others.We need to educate , remind and state if we are more expensive it is because our conditions(hours flying, jetlag, number of passengers, number of days away, no public/week end loadings) are taken into acount when our wage was negotiated.
Perhaps now that SHaul has had a taste of L Haul hours and flying without our conditions they might agree that their conditions need to be brought into line and to the same level as ours. Maybe we need to challenge the Company that there is no short haul or long Haul anymore. We have effectively been merged and we need to have our conditions merged rather than having one workforce played off against the other.CMON GUYS look at what the real picture is here!!!!Maybe a good place to start discussions with our SHaul FAAA reps
Our conditions are being attacked and lowered and our eye is not on the ball. Maybe we need Gus Hiddink as our FAAA leader. or at least coach our FAAA reps on how better to play the game
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You make some valid points hawke eye.
I had no idea that ALL the London based crew were being offered the $10 000 extra PA.
My understanding was that it was ONLY to go to the Australian crew who had transferred up there and not those employed locally.
All this because the base is "such" a success???
What a wonderful and benevolent employer QF surely is.......
I had no idea that ALL the London based crew were being offered the $10 000 extra PA.
My understanding was that it was ONLY to go to the Australian crew who had transferred up there and not those employed locally.
All this because the base is "such" a success???
What a wonderful and benevolent employer QF surely is.......
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Mostie, re read my post you might see I did mention that it was ex aussie based crew that were offerred the incentive.
Machine gun, what are your thoughts re my post? Do you agree or disagree, just wondering if I hold a minority view. Thats what is good about this forum it offers (sometimes) constructive criticism.
Machine gun, what are your thoughts re my post? Do you agree or disagree, just wondering if I hold a minority view. Thats what is good about this forum it offers (sometimes) constructive criticism.
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Looney@L5
The individuals responsible for the current situation have gone.
The officials we have now managed to claw back some of our conditions that their predecessors gave away.
Look at the evolution of unions around the world.
Collaboration is now, more the norm.Confrontation is dead.
Wake up and smell the roses this is NOT 1965.
Government legislation has changed the Industrial Relations landscape forever.
Union authority is almost dead.
Cut the empty emotional rhetoric.Come to terms with new reality.If you are not happy either leave,vote Labour at the next election or do both.
If possible, you might like to offer a logical,practical alternative/solution
The officials we have now managed to claw back some of our conditions that their predecessors gave away.
Look at the evolution of unions around the world.
Collaboration is now, more the norm.Confrontation is dead.
Wake up and smell the roses this is NOT 1965.
Government legislation has changed the Industrial Relations landscape forever.
Union authority is almost dead.
Cut the empty emotional rhetoric.Come to terms with new reality.If you are not happy either leave,vote Labour at the next election or do both.
If possible, you might like to offer a logical,practical alternative/solution
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Lurker@l5, Surfside is right.
How many would have stood their ground and for how long had we taken strike action 2 yrs ago.
You would have been injured in the rush by those climbing over the top of you to accept contracts if offerred.
The damage was done largely by the previous officials who were thrown out.
Surfside is right, if you haven't been reading the papers the industrial climate is changed until labor is elected federally.
Read my post , that is what the FAAA need to do to ensure they protect the majority of QF crew.
Your emotional rhetoric is innaccurate, and offers no reasonable insight into how we are in this situation or where do we go.
It isn't just down to a newsletter acceping a redundancy. By the way everyone I have flown with for the past 3 years who has 20 yrs or more have been fantasising about being offerred "the package". What crews have you been flying with? Not senior ones thats for sure.
A word to those who are senior and have been ruminating over a package. Take It! The chat on the track is the hypocracy of those who have salivated over a package and now aren't interested.
Some people never realise when it is time to go and when enough , is enough?
Lurker L5 do you really want to be in a job that creates so much anger inside of you? Your post is filled with anguish and despair.Why, Why, Why you ask. But no one answers, no one listens.
Sad I know, the good old days are gone never to return, what will become of you??????
pssssssssst(whispering), the package, take the package, go on you know you want it. You can pretend at the farewell that you were always going to take it. No one will know..... we wont tell.Think of it, no mpre anger, no more hate, despair, resentment. No more EPS. Do the right thing by you. Who cares about you anymore.You worry about everyone but yourself. Oh the pain, oooooh the pain.psssssst take it, go on you know you want to
How many would have stood their ground and for how long had we taken strike action 2 yrs ago.
You would have been injured in the rush by those climbing over the top of you to accept contracts if offerred.
The damage was done largely by the previous officials who were thrown out.
Surfside is right, if you haven't been reading the papers the industrial climate is changed until labor is elected federally.
Read my post , that is what the FAAA need to do to ensure they protect the majority of QF crew.
Your emotional rhetoric is innaccurate, and offers no reasonable insight into how we are in this situation or where do we go.
It isn't just down to a newsletter acceping a redundancy. By the way everyone I have flown with for the past 3 years who has 20 yrs or more have been fantasising about being offerred "the package". What crews have you been flying with? Not senior ones thats for sure.
A word to those who are senior and have been ruminating over a package. Take It! The chat on the track is the hypocracy of those who have salivated over a package and now aren't interested.
Some people never realise when it is time to go and when enough , is enough?
Lurker L5 do you really want to be in a job that creates so much anger inside of you? Your post is filled with anguish and despair.Why, Why, Why you ask. But no one answers, no one listens.
Sad I know, the good old days are gone never to return, what will become of you??????
pssssssssst(whispering), the package, take the package, go on you know you want it. You can pretend at the farewell that you were always going to take it. No one will know..... we wont tell.Think of it, no mpre anger, no more hate, despair, resentment. No more EPS. Do the right thing by you. Who cares about you anymore.You worry about everyone but yourself. Oh the pain, oooooh the pain.psssssst take it, go on you know you want to
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There is no doubt that the previous 3 faaa officials dug a deep hole for us to try and get out of however,the current faaa incumbents have very little to boast about.
Whilst not getting too much egg on their faces how many runs have they got up on the board.
it is true and very frustrating not to be able to speak to someone when you call and I have little time to spend waiting all day and sometimes the next day for a return call.
Communication is the key to keep the faaa members happy but that is not really happening and that is not acceptable
I also think it is not acceptable for MM not to have divulged exactly what was said during his little tea break with Darth last year...
The faaa is not a secret society but that is how it is being run....does anyone know the secret handshake because a lot of us don't
Hawke eye,..
I know that the good old days as you so eloquently put it are gone but that is only because a lot of the "ME" generation are falling over themselves to accept jobs for a pittance.If they did not apply for these jobs then the company would have to increase the pay and conditions to get people,this applies to pilots,cabin crew and every other job you can think of.
Whilst not getting too much egg on their faces how many runs have they got up on the board.
it is true and very frustrating not to be able to speak to someone when you call and I have little time to spend waiting all day and sometimes the next day for a return call.
Communication is the key to keep the faaa members happy but that is not really happening and that is not acceptable
I also think it is not acceptable for MM not to have divulged exactly what was said during his little tea break with Darth last year...
The faaa is not a secret society but that is how it is being run....does anyone know the secret handshake because a lot of us don't
Hawke eye,..
I know that the good old days as you so eloquently put it are gone but that is only because a lot of the "ME" generation are falling over themselves to accept jobs for a pittance.If they did not apply for these jobs then the company would have to increase the pay and conditions to get people,this applies to pilots,cabin crew and every other job you can think of.
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FAAA Communication
If its not urgent...send an email [email protected] or [email protected]
If it IS urgent...ring the beeper
If it IS urgent...ring the beeper
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S T !!
You have given the secret away ! I have always emailed FAAA with any questions and concerns and sofar always get a reply. Whether the FAAA is effectual in their answers or dealings is another matter, but I have never had problems contacting them.
It's not a matter of digging out of the hole any previous FAAA members had left behind. With the Government / Industrial / Qantas management situation at the present and ongoing future, it's about trying to keep afloat and surviving with minimal damage. There is no clear cut solution here and any negative rhetoric such as the drivel from L@L5 is not the answer. Yes, I agree that GD is a central destructive figure in this current "Bonus" driven management. But whether it would get any better with him gone, is up for debate. GD's aim is to create the new J* Int airline and then slowly choke and destroy Qantas LH. Once he has acccomplished his agenda, he will turn his back, take his multi millions and move on to the next "big project" that he can weasle his way into. It's just a power and ego game for him. As for the FAAA, they are just the audience, as we all are ! Whether we Clap or Boo at the end, do you think GD or the Q management cares ??
It's not a matter of digging out of the hole any previous FAAA members had left behind. With the Government / Industrial / Qantas management situation at the present and ongoing future, it's about trying to keep afloat and surviving with minimal damage. There is no clear cut solution here and any negative rhetoric such as the drivel from L@L5 is not the answer. Yes, I agree that GD is a central destructive figure in this current "Bonus" driven management. But whether it would get any better with him gone, is up for debate. GD's aim is to create the new J* Int airline and then slowly choke and destroy Qantas LH. Once he has acccomplished his agenda, he will turn his back, take his multi millions and move on to the next "big project" that he can weasle his way into. It's just a power and ego game for him. As for the FAAA, they are just the audience, as we all are ! Whether we Clap or Boo at the end, do you think GD or the Q management cares ??
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Is it true that when the crew in New York during the snowstorm tried to contact the faaa on the emergency number they recieved no reply?
To say there is nothing we can do is just what Darth wants and again I want to know what the conversation between him and MM was all about.............
To say there is nothing we can do is just what Darth wants and again I want to know what the conversation between him and MM was all about.............
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Confidentiality
Why do you want to know?
Its history.
There is a document known as a confidentiality agreement..legally binding.
Apparently Kylie wasnt even made privy to what went on.
This was the beginning of his demise.Once Dixon was informed of what was not going on Kylie`s incompetence became apparent.
Who cares what went on? Whats done is done.
Apparently Lowerlobe is the only inquisitive soul
We all still have a job.
We are still paid
A lot of the regional crap flying is done by shorthaul.
With redundancies there will finally be some promotion and movement.
The issues revolve principally around new technology.
Similar to the 1981 dispute when the SP was introduced.
I have said it before, the nature of our dynamic industry means that 20 hour tours of duty will become the norm.
We need to negotiate hard for terms and conditions relating to this technology and increased tours of duty.
We will have to do them but they should be done on our terms.
These are the real issues...the rest is just fodder for the chattering class
BTW ..ever tried to get a signal for your mobile at an airport during a snow storm?
It doesnt happen
Its history.
There is a document known as a confidentiality agreement..legally binding.
Apparently Kylie wasnt even made privy to what went on.
This was the beginning of his demise.Once Dixon was informed of what was not going on Kylie`s incompetence became apparent.
Who cares what went on? Whats done is done.
Apparently Lowerlobe is the only inquisitive soul
We all still have a job.
We are still paid
A lot of the regional crap flying is done by shorthaul.
With redundancies there will finally be some promotion and movement.
The issues revolve principally around new technology.
Similar to the 1981 dispute when the SP was introduced.
I have said it before, the nature of our dynamic industry means that 20 hour tours of duty will become the norm.
We need to negotiate hard for terms and conditions relating to this technology and increased tours of duty.
We will have to do them but they should be done on our terms.
These are the real issues...the rest is just fodder for the chattering class
BTW ..ever tried to get a signal for your mobile at an airport during a snow storm?
It doesnt happen
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lowerlobe
Your comment that if people didnt apply for jobs then companies would have to increase pay. Amazing, are you sure you are not a brain surgeon.
When all else fails attack the union. Bad luck, they were voted in and thats the way it will stay for sometime. Anyone wanting to do a better job put your hand up.
Now watch everyone duck for cover. 
Your comment that if people didnt apply for jobs then companies would have to increase pay. Amazing, are you sure you are not a brain surgeon.
When all else fails attack the union. Bad luck, they were voted in and thats the way it will stay for sometime. Anyone wanting to do a better job put your hand up.
Now watch everyone duck for cover.