Small A/C Threatens Sky Tower
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Ahh now the truth is starting to come out..a tragic story of broken dreams, broken promises..intrigue, deception, sex..
just aviation really.
Dave, mate..didn't know you that well but that was a tough deal to cop.
Don't condone your actions but I'm starting to realise how bad you must've felt.
just aviation really.
Dave, mate..didn't know you that well but that was a tough deal to cop.
Don't condone your actions but I'm starting to realise how bad you must've felt.
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Getting Boring!!
TIMMEEEE could we have a bit more melodrama with your next post please!
...err...no, people have come out in support of this person.
err...lets have a little more cheese please! If the A/C hit the main body of the tower the only carnage wrought would have been to the poor little Piper, at window level, yes no doubt some casualties + those on the ground - still not what I'd call massive.
He did, attract attention. (The tree-huggers might say "cry for help" - whatever floats your boat). He made transmissions to ATC that gave clues to his motivation, and the police were quickly able to gauge the seriousness of the threat and react accordingly, that's their job and,if people are honest with themselves they do it very well (unless you're a conspirisist(sic?) that thinks they frame the David Bains & OJ's of the world).
Why are a bunch of Ozzies with no knowledge of the situation that led to this course of action intent on labelling this "real terrorism"? What's the size of your head if you think you can pick the threat level better than law enforcement/counter-terrorism authorities in the country that it occurred?
Rest assured most of us are as p!ssed off as you and other allies about our PC,greenie defence policy that de-clawed the RNZAF and seriously affects our ability to contribute (albeit in a token way)in foreign policy. Please make your political statement elsewhere, maybe you could start your own thread on it instead of swinging every existing one into "we've got an air force & you haven't".
You lot would still be Monday Quarterbacking.
err...really? Like the US did in Miami,or with Payne Stewart, like the Greeks did with Helios, like the almighty RAAF did with the rogue King Air or did you mean like the Soviets did in 1983 when they so obviously got it right?
I have no doubt he will.
See you in 10 days, and guys, get outside with the Mrs and kids -there's a real world out there somewhere, then when you want a laugh log on to prune to get the worldly opinions of "professionals". Bahaha
It amazes me that individuals come to the defence of this person
could have conceivably wrought untold carnage to the Skytower with the resultant massive losses of life and property.
Imagine if this individual did what he set out to do?
Why are a bunch of Ozzies with no knowledge of the situation that led to this course of action intent on labelling this "real terrorism"? What's the size of your head if you think you can pick the threat level better than law enforcement/counter-terrorism authorities in the country that it occurred?
Rest assured most of us are as p!ssed off as you and other allies about our PC,greenie defence policy that de-clawed the RNZAF and seriously affects our ability to contribute (albeit in a token way)in foreign policy. Please make your political statement elsewhere, maybe you could start your own thread on it instead of swinging every existing one into "we've got an air force & you haven't".
What would the reaction and attitudes have been then?
If this was any other country in the world he would have been shot out of the sky using any means available.
In my opinion this person should never, ever be let loose around an aircraft again and should be banned from all airports nationwide forever.
See you in 10 days, and guys, get outside with the Mrs and kids -there's a real world out there somewhere, then when you want a laugh log on to prune to get the worldly opinions of "professionals". Bahaha
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Thump,
How do you come to the conclusion that the 'police were able to gauge the seriousness of the threat and react accordingly', when they admitted publicly they had no means of stopping this individual and they had run out of ideas?
How do you come to the conclusion that the 'police were able to gauge the seriousness of the threat and react accordingly', when they admitted publicly they had no means of stopping this individual and they had run out of ideas?
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Thump and Go .....if this little quip from Luke Skytoddler isnt coming to defence of this guy I think you should pop another little red pill and comtemplate the friggin obvious:
If that aint support then I'm a member of the Royal Saudi family!
As Skol so eloquently put it the police were absolutely powerless to do anything.....and this is in your main city where resources are supposed to be more readily accessible.
If anything this has highlighted just how easy it is in NZ to steal a light aircraft and cause damage.
Your right Thump and Go - it doesnt have to be much in terms of damage, but if this person did fly into the Skytower or anywhere else in the CBD the media would be onto it non stop 24/7 and yes - it would damage NZ's tourist industry worldwide for a long long time.
No it didnt happen but in another state of mind............
Maybe T&G whilst you are away on your little 10 day sojourn you will see it really is a dangerous world out there.
Just because you cant see it doesnt mean it exists.
As for your statement:
Well this aussie was airborne on the night in question and was within minutes of having to share proximate airspace with this twit.
I spent the next few days in NZ and was barraged by the same media that you did Thump and Go so cut out the whining aussie bashing crap.
If by somehow being in NZ at the time of this farce, reading the same newspapers and watching the same tv as yourself and deriving my own opinions offends you T & G then too bloody bad.
All I did was to ask what if? and you go off on a tangent.
Me thinks your skin is a little too thin and some calcium needed for your backbone.
I wont even mention the chip on both your shoulders!
and I absolutely agree 110% that he is not welcome anywhere near an aircraft of any sort, until he's had a LOT of professional help and the people who are responsible for such things have determined that he's cured of whatever went wrong with him that night
As Skol so eloquently put it the police were absolutely powerless to do anything.....and this is in your main city where resources are supposed to be more readily accessible.
If anything this has highlighted just how easy it is in NZ to steal a light aircraft and cause damage.
Your right Thump and Go - it doesnt have to be much in terms of damage, but if this person did fly into the Skytower or anywhere else in the CBD the media would be onto it non stop 24/7 and yes - it would damage NZ's tourist industry worldwide for a long long time.
No it didnt happen but in another state of mind............
Maybe T&G whilst you are away on your little 10 day sojourn you will see it really is a dangerous world out there.
Just because you cant see it doesnt mean it exists.
As for your statement:
Why are a bunch of Ozzies with no knowledge of the situation that led to this course of action intent on labelling this "real terrorism"?
I spent the next few days in NZ and was barraged by the same media that you did Thump and Go so cut out the whining aussie bashing crap.
If by somehow being in NZ at the time of this farce, reading the same newspapers and watching the same tv as yourself and deriving my own opinions offends you T & G then too bloody bad.
All I did was to ask what if? and you go off on a tangent.
Me thinks your skin is a little too thin and some calcium needed for your backbone.
I wont even mention the chip on both your shoulders!
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I had the misfortune of being in the US during 9/11 and also in London during the recent bombings.
Terrorism can come from anywhere ranging from disgruntled individuals through to organisations and franchises such as JI and Al-Quaeda.
I think that Thump & Go is being overly harsh in his diatribe, not to mention being patronising as well as insulting.
Thump & Go carries on as if its a personal insult.
What if the pilot in question had ran out of fuel and landed in the city or even "snapped" and carried out his original intentions?
Timmee correctly states that the NZ economy would be damaged severly by the worldwide media that just loves that sought of thing.
Imagine CNN going crazy on that one!
I agree with Timmee that this would have been the case and if so alot of questions would be asked about airport security - including GA airports.
NZ is not immune Thumper and I pray that both NZ as well as Oz remain immune.
I believe Luke Skytoddler as being misguided in his support of this person stating that he shouldnt be allowed near aircraft until he has had treatment.
Until???...WRONG!!
People like this should never be let near an aircraft....ever !!
I trust this person gets treatment and retires from aviation permanently.
Terrorism can come from anywhere ranging from disgruntled individuals through to organisations and franchises such as JI and Al-Quaeda.
I think that Thump & Go is being overly harsh in his diatribe, not to mention being patronising as well as insulting.
Thump & Go carries on as if its a personal insult.
What if the pilot in question had ran out of fuel and landed in the city or even "snapped" and carried out his original intentions?
Timmee correctly states that the NZ economy would be damaged severly by the worldwide media that just loves that sought of thing.
Imagine CNN going crazy on that one!
I agree with Timmee that this would have been the case and if so alot of questions would be asked about airport security - including GA airports.
NZ is not immune Thumper and I pray that both NZ as well as Oz remain immune.
I believe Luke Skytoddler as being misguided in his support of this person stating that he shouldnt be allowed near aircraft until he has had treatment.
Until???...WRONG!!
People like this should never be let near an aircraft....ever !!
I trust this person gets treatment and retires from aviation permanently.
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Interesting thread, as usual all pertinent angles have been covered. I believe this is damaging for all pilots alike, and there public perception. A time bomb like this seldom goes off without warning and its unfortunate none of his so called friends noticed. Was this work pressure from Massey? Or as the media says Personal relationship problems? Probably a combination. Anyways i can believe some have encouraged the pilot toward a speedy recovery and entertain the idea of flying again. WTF
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Seems a bit steep to me. Sure, take his licence off him and give him some community service or something... I didn't seem (to me) that he really wanted to hurt anybody other than himself.
People that steal cars and then crash them following high-speed (ie dangerous to the public) chases always seem to get off a lot more lightly.
Surely it is enough that the guy loses his career and his marriage... or maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age!
People that steal cars and then crash them following high-speed (ie dangerous to the public) chases always seem to get off a lot more lightly.
Surely it is enough that the guy loses his career and his marriage... or maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age!
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People that steal cars and then crash them following high-speed (ie dangerous to the public) chases always seem to get off a lot more lightly.
Before you shoot me down, I'm talking about public perception, not reality.
I suppose DT has already spent a significant part of the sentence on remand, so - will he be out soon on good behaviour? But then apparently NZAR inc. and Skytower inc. want megabucks for damages. Not sure how that will pan out.
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MOR mate...a little soft in your age I reckon....it is one thing to give a sentence that fits the crime,it is also another that also sends a message.
I agree with your comments,and this whole thing from the get-go is a sad case,my concern was/is the potenial consequences that could have occured from this blokes actions,the most extreme outcome of his actions is also worth considering?.....PB
I agree with your comments,and this whole thing from the get-go is a sad case,my concern was/is the potenial consequences that could have occured from this blokes actions,the most extreme outcome of his actions is also worth considering?.....PB
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Yeah, you're right, I'm getting soft!
The consequences could have been nasty, and yes that should be considered. However, the point of prison is that it is supposed to be for those who are a danger to society, and who need to be locked away to keep the public safe. I'm not sure this guy fits into that category, it seems to be more a moment of madness.
Of course if he had some indigenous blood in him, he would get a "restorative justice" hearing, a quick one-on-one with his "victims" (I guess the Skytower management and the aircraft owners), a slap on the wrist and released into the care of his parents...
Hmmm, now I'm getting cynical!
The consequences could have been nasty, and yes that should be considered. However, the point of prison is that it is supposed to be for those who are a danger to society, and who need to be locked away to keep the public safe. I'm not sure this guy fits into that category, it seems to be more a moment of madness.
Of course if he had some indigenous blood in him, he would get a "restorative justice" hearing, a quick one-on-one with his "victims" (I guess the Skytower management and the aircraft owners), a slap on the wrist and released into the care of his parents...
Hmmm, now I'm getting cynical!
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Luke Sky Toddler
Your sense of character judgement must be located in the midst of your toe jam. Sounds to me that you would not be adverse to going and hanging out with DGT at one of Her Majesty's Pleasure Palaces. Free Sky,food & sex.
How was it that DGT was awarded an 'A' Cat instructors ticket after crashing the 152 short of the threshold 21(?) at Ardmore back in 1999? What was the FTO thinking? Surely the flight test practical would have to be re-visited and maybe they could have discussed taking a 10% fuel reserve/contingency along to prove proficiency with a bit of lateral and dynamic thinking.
An 'A' Cat in any discipline should be capable of some prior planning.
Your sense of character judgement must be located in the midst of your toe jam. Sounds to me that you would not be adverse to going and hanging out with DGT at one of Her Majesty's Pleasure Palaces. Free Sky,food & sex.
How was it that DGT was awarded an 'A' Cat instructors ticket after crashing the 152 short of the threshold 21(?) at Ardmore back in 1999? What was the FTO thinking? Surely the flight test practical would have to be re-visited and maybe they could have discussed taking a 10% fuel reserve/contingency along to prove proficiency with a bit of lateral and dynamic thinking.
An 'A' Cat in any discipline should be capable of some prior planning.
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MOR - I thought the purpose of prison was to punish rule-breakers. Isn't it only a relatively recent idea that criminal penalties should primarily serve to protect society?
In western society, I think we're at a crossroads of the justice system - founded on "break the rules, get punished, hopefully criminals learn to behave", but now gradually moving towards "hurt someone else, government seeks to protect victim, oh well I suppose criminals have to be moved somewhere else, hopefully criminals learn to behave".
Interesting philosophical difference.
Sorry about the thread creep - I'll try to behave in future...
O8
In western society, I think we're at a crossroads of the justice system - founded on "break the rules, get punished, hopefully criminals learn to behave", but now gradually moving towards "hurt someone else, government seeks to protect victim, oh well I suppose criminals have to be moved somewhere else, hopefully criminals learn to behave".
Interesting philosophical difference.
Sorry about the thread creep - I'll try to behave in future...
O8
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There are many forms of punishment, prison is only one of them. The original purpose of prison was to keep dangerous people locked away to keep the public safe. Of course, it has changed over the years and is now seen in some quarters as society getting it's retribution.
Of course, as Mr Turnock is about to find out, the real punishment is what happens inside the prison walls, not the actual confinement itself.
Of course, as Mr Turnock is about to find out, the real punishment is what happens inside the prison walls, not the actual confinement itself.
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Before too many people get upset about the severity of the sentence.....2 yrs 3 mths......Dave will go to a low security prison farm...spend about 3-4 months, apply for Home Detention (2 yrs being the maximum), be granted it, spend 12 months at home (wherever that may be) with an ankle bracelet and then be granted parole. He'll file for bankruptcy and never have to pay a cent towards the cost of the a/c.
I think he is lucky that he didn't get more. The anti-terrorism charge was thrown out on a technicality and there has not been a precedent to dilute the sentence. I for one would like to know who his lawyer was because he did a hell of a job mitigating the sentence. Personally I think it should have been a bit more as this is now the benchmark for this type of behaviour. BUT, then again, I just think people should go to jail for wrongdoings.....call that retribution if you like.
Remember, he will never be able to fly again, his life is ****e, and the only victim at the end of the day is an insurance company.
I think he is lucky that he didn't get more. The anti-terrorism charge was thrown out on a technicality and there has not been a precedent to dilute the sentence. I for one would like to know who his lawyer was because he did a hell of a job mitigating the sentence. Personally I think it should have been a bit more as this is now the benchmark for this type of behaviour. BUT, then again, I just think people should go to jail for wrongdoings.....call that retribution if you like.
Remember, he will never be able to fly again, his life is ****e, and the only victim at the end of the day is an insurance company.
Whiteknuckleairlines,
What behaviour are you referring to when you say "is now the benchmark for this kind of behaviour" ?
MOR,OKTAS8,
interesting thoughts. Is prison, or rather the justice system we have (or should have) punitive, for society's protection, for rehabilitation, or a combination of any of those? Because in many cases it seems not to work too well at any of those roles. Or is it for something else?
What behaviour are you referring to when you say "is now the benchmark for this kind of behaviour" ?
MOR,OKTAS8,
interesting thoughts. Is prison, or rather the justice system we have (or should have) punitive, for society's protection, for rehabilitation, or a combination of any of those? Because in many cases it seems not to work too well at any of those roles. Or is it for something else?
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Markjoy.....behaviour as in Unlawfully Taking an Aircraft, intentionally crashing said aircraft, dangerous operation of an aircraft etc.....
If anything happens in the future of a similar nature this will now be referred to in case law for sentencing......this will be the benchmark similar offending will be measured against.
If anything happens in the future of a similar nature this will now be referred to in case law for sentencing......this will be the benchmark similar offending will be measured against.